[Euro] Hondata Update

[tony1234]

This is now the 6th day of having my ECU sent away and it looks as though it still hasn't come in today's mail either.

By Monday it would have been 9 days without access to my car. :(

Such inconvenience is hugely frustrating when my ECU still hasn't been reflashed anyway.
I feel sorry for you.9 days without your car!:(

[Merlin086]

This is now the 6th day of having my ECU sent away and it looks as though it still hasn't come in today's mail either.

By Monday it would have been 9 days without access to my car. :(

Such inconvenience is hugely frustrating when my ECU still hasn't been reflashed anyway.

Didn't get mine back today either as promised, and James has had mine for 7 weeks, not the 2 weeks I was told when the xtreme was fitted to my car.

[tony1234]

Didn't get mine back today either as promised, and James has had mine for 7 weeks, not the 2 weeks I was told when the xtreme was fitted to my car.
Are you driving around on the prototype extreme ECU with the check engine light on all the time and the immobiliser light flashing and not working??:thumbdwn::thumbdwn:

[Merlin086]

Are you driving around on the prototype extreme ECU with the check engine light on all the time and the immobiliser light flashing and not working??:thumbdwn::thumbdwn:


Have been for 7 weeks, but posted the temporary ECU back to James last Thursday,8 days ago so I don't have a ECU at all now.

[tony1234]

Have been for 7 weeks, but posted the temporary ECU back to James last Thursday,8 days ago so I don't have a ECU at all now.
It's going from bad to worse.

[Merlin086]

In all fairness I just had a phone call from James addressing my issues of my car being undriveable due to the harmonics inside the car, and the exhaust at 102db.

He has offered to do whatever is required within the next week to sort out my issues at no cost.

Thanks TODA AU for pissing me off so bad I let off some steam:thumbsup:
But you still need to watch that smart ass mouth!!

[johnprocter]

lol i'd hardly call him smart his an idiot if he thinks someone is just gonna sit there and do nothing while they dont have a car for so long and cant legally drive their own car

[BiLL|z0r]

With comments that Toda AU has made (Adrian we assume) it can't be good for his business. It just might be his business that enjoys a cup of bankrupt concrete, then who'll be going the bitching.

[wynode]

Guys lets get back on topic here thanks

[Merlin086]

Guys lets get back on topic here thanks

Isn't this thread about Hondata/Jtune

And the posts are regarding TODA AU...ie....Adrian

Quote from Hondatech:-
.................................................. ........................
"Adrian from Toda Racing Australia insuring total product compatibility and reliability for the Australian market for all our packages."
.................................................. ........................

The comments are right on topic IMHO..........:thumbsup:

[EUR003act]

apart from the actual final product itself (when i finally received it!) i have had nothing but trouble from TODA :( its a shame, cause they seemed so nice...

[wynode]

The comments are right on topic IMHO..........:thumbsup:

No. The comment above my last reply was not. My post was just a reminder not to get carried away. If you have a problem then either PM me or post it up in the Site discussion forum.

[BiLL|z0r]

oh oh, When wynode's called in someone rung the bat phone. LOL

Anyway, back on topic ;), Has anyone we know of have a mild reflash working in their car as we speak/type? Even a prototype or test dumbies from before the launch.

[Lukey13]

Below is a thread I started this morning on the Hondatech forum (moderated by James from Jtune). I thought I'd repost it here to ask this same question of forumites on Ozhonda:


Hi everyone

I was wondering if anybody here could provide some feedback on their Mild Reflash from last week, given that Jtune began their much-awaited reflashing.

Wouldn't it be a good idea for a bit of positive discussion on how the Euro drives with the Mild Reflash; especially in terms of torque response and the lower v-tec setting? Whilst there has been a lot of criticism about the whole debacle last week of ECUs being fried by faulty Hondata equipment and delays in people getting their ECUs back, surely there's somebody out there who's getting around with the Mild Reflash now?

While I'm of course very disappointed in going 9 days without my ECU without getting the reflash done, I'm clutching at some hope that the product I'm waiting for is going to be worth the stuff-around. I was also pleased that James was honest on the phone about the situation and is refunding my money until the time that non-faulty Hondata equipment is available from the US.

So anybody out there - comments and reviews of the Mild Reflash PLEASE?!!

[Suntzu]

OK,

Im back from my OS holiday.

My ECU was fried/killed in the mild reflash process.

Im being sent a temp ECU while they get me a new ECU and the proper flash.

I'm giving james a chance to sort it properly as sometime shit happens.

That being said jtunes perfomance in resolving this not insignificant issue will be a good indication of how they will go in the long term. So we'll see. Im hopeful he will be able to sort it out for me as im still loooking forward to the reflash.

Ill keep you guys posted on how it turns out.

[johnprocter]

**** thats unlucky suntzu i wanted to see how your ride would go with the mild flash, SS headers and fujita CAI intake

[TODA AU]

In all fairness I just had a phone call from James addressing my issues of my car being undriveable due to the harmonics inside the car, and the exhaust at 102db.

He has offered to do whatever is required within the next week to sort out my issues at no cost.

Thanks TODA AU for pissing me off so bad I let off some steam
But you still need to watch that smart ass mouth!!

I’m happy to hear you spoke to James & have a satisfactory solution arranged. :thumbsup:
I apologize for maddening you to the point of explosion. The written word online is often more inciting than that which is spoken.
My intention was for you to contact James & bitch directly to him & perhaps I should have said just that.
In any case, now that you have spoken to James, don’t you feel better?

Regarding the cup of concrete comment
It seems at lot of you don’t speak the same colloquial language that I do. (My bad)
There is no malicious intent to send anyone to the bottom of the ocean attached.
It means quite simply to “have a cup of shut the f uck up!”
(I guess now I’m an even bigger arsehole for explaining it.)

Re problems with J-Tune etc
IMO J-Tune’s biggest mistake was releasing any information about their packages before they were 100% ready. Because of the early release of information & prototypes, customer’s expectations have grown & this has lead to a fair degree of impatience.
Combine this with a few teething problems that the end customer should never be privy too & you have the current situation of reduced confidence in the product.
This sort of thing won’t happen with the FN2 CTR products.
If thinking this makes me an idiot or a prick, then so be it.

[tony1234]

I’m happy to hear you spoke to James & have a satisfactory solution arranged. :thumbsup:
I apologize for maddening you to the point of explosion. The written word online is often more inciting than that which is spoken.
My intention was for you to contact James & bitch directly to him & perhaps I should have said just that.
In any case, now that you have spoken to James, don’t you feel better?

Regarding the cup of concrete comment
It seems at lot of you don’t speak the same colloquial language that I do. (My bad)
There is no malicious intent to send anyone to the bottom of the ocean attached.
It means quite simply to “have a cup of shut the f uck up!”
(I guess now I’m an even bigger arsehole for explaining it.)

Re problems with J-Tune etc
IMO J-Tune’s biggest mistake was releasing any information about their packages before they were 100% ready. Because of the early release of information & prototypes, customer’s expectations have grown & this has lead to a fair degree of impatience.
Combine this with a few teething problems that the end customer should never be privy too & you have the current situation of reduced confidence in the product.
This sort of thing won’t happen with the FN2 CTR products.
If thinking this makes me an idiot or a prick, then so be it.
Paragraph 3 pretty well sums it up.

[Suntzu]

Ok,

an update from james. Im getting my temporary mild flash ECU tommorow. its a beta tune but very similar to the final. This will get me running while they ship my new ECu and keys in 2 weeks.

So im pretty confident ill be able to report on some basic results in a few days that you might be interested in.

Should be resolved ok. cheers

[tinkerbell]

sorry to bother you, but are you running any existing mods Suntzu?

[Merlin086]

Paragraph 3 pretty well sums it up.

Gotta agree with Tony......:thumbsup:

The rest appears to be a lame attempt at an apology with some sarcasm thrown in....

But I will accept your "apology", (can't speak for the other "girls" though)

...and rise above "tearing it to shreds" as it is probably the best you can do considering............:D

[johnprocter]

sorry to bother you, but are you running any existing mods Suntzu?


2005 Red 18x7 TeinSS RSB SS Header Fujita CAI JTune MFlash
that is in his signature lol

[tinkerbell]

that is in his signature lol

i turned signatures off on ozhonda because too many gaylord riceboys on here have such ugly signatures.

thanks for letting me know :thumbsup:

[EUR003act]

i turned signatures off on ozhonda because too many gaylord riceboys on here have such ugly signatures.

thanks for letting me know :thumbsup:

B20VTEC - since 2002...

1st place: 2007 NSW CAMS Supersprint Championship - class 3B

proudly powered by theoretical "Toda watts"

i suppose your signature isn't gaylord then?

[Suntzu]

Got the ecu as promised and a free Hondata heatshield gasket for the trouble.

Now i will fit the beta flash ecu tonight.

When i install the HS gasket i might do the throttle body bypass as well. Anyone done this??

[Lukey13]

I received my ECU back last night (sent back without the reflash due to the faulty equipment). Didn't take me long to get the immobiliser back on and the ECU back in. Started it up and the "Check Engine" light came on and the car was running rough. I thought it might just be re-adjusting to having the ECU taken out and returned so I took it for a short, slow drive and it was running rough as guts. Very concerned I got on the phone to James from Jtune and surprisingly he answered his phone despite it being well and truly "out of hours". James was very helpful and advised me to pull out all four connectors to the ECU and then replace them.... Fortunately it worked! And boy was it good to drive the Euro around after 9 days of abstinence - an exercise that reminds you of how much of a pleasure they are to drive. Anyway, moral of the story was that James was very helpful and accessible in this instance. He also advised that the Hondata equipment was now on its way to Australia and should be up and running soon.

I look forward to hearing Suntzu's review of the Mild Reflash...

[tony1234]

Good to hear.When did James say the mild"reflasher"would be available for reflashes?

[johnprocter]

keen to see how the mild flash is!!!

[Suntzu]

I got my temp ecu fitted. Its got a beta mild flash. Car was running rough and engine check light on. The roughness cleared but not he check light.

Hard to say about performance. Delivery of power more linear. Too hot today to test properly. Stay tuned for more.

[sodaz]

The mild reflash smooths out the power band a bit which gives the car a slightly beefier mid range but less of a kick so your butt dyno will not feel that much. Hope the CEL clears soon mate.

[EUR003act]

Got the ecu as promised and a free Hondata heatshield gasket for the trouble.

Now i will fit the beta flash ecu tonight.

When i install the HS gasket i might do the throttle body bypass as well. Anyone done this??

ive done it :) easy as pie!

all you need is a 3/8inch joiner and some honda coolant (to replace the coolant you drain)... once i get back to canberra ill try finish my DIY RBC modification, its got the throttle body bypass in there aswell :D

[Lukey13]

I got my temp ecu fitted. Its got a beta mild flash. Car was running rough and engine check light on. The roughness cleared but not he check light.

Hard to say about performance. Delivery of power more linear. Too hot today to test properly. Stay tuned for more.

Are you sure that the four connectors to the ECU were in really tight? The jerkiness and engine check light sound like what happened to me when the ECU wasn't connected properly. Also a strange smell of the fuel running really rich.

Honestly sounds pretty disappointing if you can't notice much difference in performance, even on a hot day.

[Pumped]

When i drove my car with the Mild flash ecu in it, it was over 30 degrees.

Couldnt notice a huge difference, seemed more willing to spin the tyres off the line and generally revved out smoother
Didnt notice a change in vtec noise like you do at 6000 with the standard ecu, also it revved notably higher, had my car higher then ive ever seen it :p

id be curious to hear how it goes when the temperature isnt so hot

[tinkerbell]

B20VTEC - since 2002...

1st place: 2007 NSW CAMS Supersprint Championship - class 3B

proudly powered by theoretical "Toda watts"

i suppose your signature isn't gaylord then?

gaylord maybe,

riceboy not.

[EUR003act]

gaylord maybe,

riceboy not.

haha good call, i didnt think you were gonna notice :p

[Lukey13]

I got my temp ecu fitted. Its got a beta mild flash. Car was running rough and engine check light on. The roughness cleared but not he check light.

Hard to say about performance. Delivery of power more linear. Too hot today to test properly. Stay tuned for more.

So would it be safe to say that after some days of driving it now that the performance is pretty disappointing?

[bennjamin]

for the money spent , and the time and effort this looks disappointing :)

[EUR003act]

hehehe thats why im spending my money on camshaft :p among other things

[johnprocter]

thats why iam spending my money on comptech supercharger yo

[EUR003act]

thats why iam spending my money on comptech supercharger yo

:O !!!!!!!!

So so so so so jealous right now!

but ill still race you once my cams are done ;)

[Suntzu]

I agree the supercharger would be the shIt.How you pulling that one????:p

That being said, ive been informed that the flash I have is just one to get me rolling while the issues are sorted. In fact its very similar to stock.Actually my cars running like dogs balls in a vice with 240v connected.

Ill reserve judgement till I get my proper reflash assuming it doesnt take longer than a few weeks.

[Peekay34]

thats why iam spending my money on comptech supercharger yo

Good luck what are you going to control it with ...even comptech gave up on it......

[johnprocter]

fine i'll just buy that honda city turbo and smoke yo ass's LOL

[ALN]

Good luck what are you going to control it with ...even comptech gave up on it......

He can use piggy back like EManage ultimate or haltech interceptor or more expensive choices like EFI ecu or motec. Sure they can work it out, DBW ain't new thing now

[Suntzu]

Im "promised" the proper ECU flash mid next week. Let see what happens.

i was offered the Haltech and a retune by someone from here but that talked it up and made promises that they never followed through with.

The Haltech does work with the euro. I can confirm this. Dunno about Vtec.

[tinkerbell]

The Haltech does work with the euro. I can confirm this. Dunno about Vtec.

if it can do DBW it can do VTEC???

[tinkerbell]

http://www.haltech.com/ecu_comp.htm

seems all have AUX outputs...

[ginganggooly]

Can it handle the cam phasing bit?

[Suntzu]

Ok,
Ttrue to James word he got me a new ECU and flashed it at Hondata in the USA and had it shipped to me today. the issue was resolved reasonably quickly and professionally.

Its installed and working prefectly.

Going for a drive now...........

[TRaNz]

Ok,
Ttrue to James word he got me a new ECU and flashed it at Hondata in the USA and had it shipped to me today. the issue was resolved reasonably quickly and professionally.

Its installed and working prefectly.

Going for a drive now...........

Ahhhh, do tell us how it is, a nice detailed review....LOL

[Pumped]

does it feel like "turbo"

[bennjamin]

does it feel like "turbo"

all that money spent , and all that stuffing around by the "company" - you'd hope it bloody well feels like a "turbo".

[sodaz]

As if it will feel like a turbo....:)

[johnprocter]

is it worth $1000? be honest!

[Suntzu]

Quick run as a rough test. http://www.mediafire.com/?fm0zxx1itti :angel:

[johnprocter]

how was it performance wise?

[tony1234]

Quick run as a rough test. http://www.mediafire.com/?fm0zxx1itti :angel:
Sounds good but what's it go like??

[Suntzu]

how was it performance wise?

How long is the sound clip ?

[BiLL|z0r]

About 6 secs

[Suntzu]

Its a approx a 7.2 second 0-100. ( using sound wave analysis software.) I slipped a bit on loose gravel at the start and only rev'ed it to 3000rpm at release. Also you can hear I did hit NOT the rev cutout. It was a basic run that you could do without cooking the clutch and tyres. It was 23 celcius. My previous best was approx 7.8 secs. I think the cars good for a 6.9 sec pass.

Im not after 0-100 but flexibility actually and I have tha nowt. Im using this just as a base line to measure the flash, so you guys can have some idea of what Im talking about. I dont drag people of course the cars not made for that. Not to mention its for lancer riceboys.


The 80-120 3rd gear passing acceleration is improved by a decent amount. Theres no difference til 5000rpm when the vtec shimmies ( read not kicks yo) in and then you get a constant surge to 7000rpm.

My review later. I got to drive the car some more. Sux to be me today :) :p

[tony1234]

Its a approx a 7.2 second 0-100. ( using sound wave analysis software.) I slipped a bit on loose gravel at the start and only rev'ed it to 3000rpm at release. Also you can hear I did hit NOT the rev cutout. It was a basic run that you could do without cooking the clutch and tyres. It was 23 celcius. My previous best was approx 7.8 secs. I think the cars good for a 6.9 sec pass.

Im not after 0-100 but flexibility actually and I have tha nowt. Im using this just as a base line to measure the flash, so you guys can have some idea of what Im talking about. I dont drag people of course the cars not made for that. Not to mention its for lancer riceboys.


The 80-120 3rd gear passing acceleration is improved by a decent amount. Theres no difference til 5000rpm when the vtec shimmies ( read not kicks yo) in and then you get a constant surge to 7000rpm.

My review later. I got to drive the car some more. Sux to be me today :) :p
Sounds good.Do you reckon the reflash is worth the money?

[johnprocter]

sounds pretty good

[Cranial]

How would could someone go about accurately measung the 0-100 and 80-120 (in 3rd) other than going on the track? I'd like to see stock and flashed times for comparison, but they'd need to be accurate, as I'm interested in how this mild flash pans out.

[BusterSonic12]

How would could someone go about accurately measung the 0-100 and 80-120 (in 3rd) other than going on the track? I'd like to see stock and flashed times for comparison, but they'd need to be accurate, as I'm interested in how this mild flash pans out.

do it at the WSID? the drag strip in sydney. or dyno run to see power figure kw shootout difference?

[aaronng]

How would could someone go about accurately measung the 0-100 and 80-120 (in 3rd) other than going on the track? I'd like to see stock and flashed times for comparison, but they'd need to be accurate, as I'm interested in how this mild flash pans out.

Has to be done on a dragstrip. It is not safe on the street and streets are not perfectly level anyway. Same thing with the circuit track, the straights are not usually dead level like dragstrips.

[Suntzu]

How would could someone go about accurately measung the 0-100 and 80-120 (in 3rd) other than going on the track? I'd like to see stock and flashed times for comparison, but they'd need to be accurate, as I'm interested in how this mild flash pans out.

Thats a great idea :thumbdwn:. Order and install the flash and run the tests at your own expense and time. Instead of waitng and expecting others to do it for you at their expense, so you have an easy and risk free run. Sounds pretty straightforward. I'll look forward to your results so i can compare against mine. That is unless your full of shit which I suspect you are.

[Cranial]

Dang thats harsh... I wasn't getting personal there - you don't know me, and I don't know you. We're all on the forum to be productive here. I don't think it's the place to make personal judgement on others like you have. I was only asking a question. I was NOT asking anyone (including you) to do these tests for me. I was asking for a method to do it accurately. I think you've mis-understood me and taken a swipe at me for no reason. Not very nice.

[r-r-redEuro]

You kinda are, suntzu was giving his review on the mild flash of what he believes.

And you comment on how could someone be accurate without going on track or strip.

Suntzu also said approximately not exactly. He went out of his way to write out a review for all of us in HIS opinion of what he thinks it turns out to be so be greatful he did.

And yes taking it to the strip would be a good idea but maybe he didnt have the time yet to go with another stock euro owner to compare. Give the guy time he only got two days ago.

[Merlin086]

I'm planning to take my euro with the extreme kit to Willowbank next thursday night, so I'll have some accurate times.

Does anyone know if they give you a printout of 0-100k times as well as
400m times?

[BiLL|z0r]

Has the exhaust noise been fixed yet though?

oh and I do agree with Cranial, he wasn't asking anyone to do it for him, just how to measure it more accuratly. Well that's how I understood it anyway.

[Merlin086]

Has the exhaust noise been fixed yet though?

oh and I do agree with Cranial, he wasn't asking anyone to do it for him, just how to measure it more accuratly. Well that's how I understood it anyway.


The harmonics within the car are way down, it appears it was the header pipes vibrating against each other underneath the crossmember. A lot better outside too now, must have been also affecting the sound level at the mufflers.
Should be heaps better with the final production headers which are 15mm longer on the vertical to clear the crossmember more, as mine are vibrating occasionally depending on revs and gradient.

Just did a accurate check of a tank of mixed highway and town driving, averaged 8.2L/100k's.

[Lukey13]

Its a approx a 7.2 second 0-100. ( using sound wave analysis software.) I slipped a bit on loose gravel at the start and only rev'ed it to 3000rpm at release. Also you can hear I did hit NOT the rev cutout. It was a basic run that you could do without cooking the clutch and tyres. It was 23 celcius. My previous best was approx 7.8 secs. I think the cars good for a 6.9 sec pass.

Im not after 0-100 but flexibility actually and I have tha nowt. Im using this just as a base line to measure the flash, so you guys can have some idea of what Im talking about. I dont drag people of course the cars not made for that. Not to mention its for lancer riceboys.


The 80-120 3rd gear passing acceleration is improved by a decent amount. Theres no difference til 5000rpm when the vtec shimmies ( read not kicks yo) in and then you get a constant surge to 7000rpm.

My review later. I got to drive the car some more. Sux to be me today :) :p

Thanks for your review of the mild reflash. To me, the subjective experience is really important as I never drive my car on a racetrack for time.

Are you still going to do a more complete review later? I'd be interested to hear about the low-down torque response and also the difference in engine noise - especially with vtec at 5K...

[Suntzu]

Im doing a complete review in week or so. Im not making any claims till its daily driven.

Going pretty well though. Feel like its got more torque in the 3000-5000rpm band, makes it lets tiring to drive as you dont need to shift as much.

I dont know if track times will tell you a lot because each car is different and has a different driver, but it will give you an approximate if you have a before and after result I guess. Im not going to drag strip mine though.

In summary:

Its smoother throughout the rpm range.
Has a little more torque at lower rpm which transitions in a pretty manic surge from 5000 rpm onwards.
Its easier to drive.
I dont know about fuel yet.
Its slightly quicker to 100kph, im guessing about 0.4 - 0.5 sec.
I dont think you would get much from the mild flash without at LEAST a proper intake. The car needs more air, esp with the flash.
The car sounds slightly more Bassy, meatier in the exhaust but that could be a placebo.
The engine sounds the same otherwise. Not any louder than normal. In fact if I didnt have an angry elephant stuck in my Fujita you would never know.:)

I would expect the extreme to be similar to this but to have more of everything in these areas. At least i hope it will for the money.

Re: Last night. I was a bit harsh, I'd had a few beers, but i stand by what I say and that is there a few people here that expect this and that and a bit more but have are not prepared to actually commit to doing anything themselves and then bitch on when they dont like what they hear. Thats not personal, its a relevant and accurate observations. If you get your knickers in a knot then sux to be you.

[johnprocter]

thats fair enough your brave mate for giving it a go first and thanks for the review

[johnprocter]

The harmonics within the car are way down, it appears it was the header pipes vibrating against each other underneath the crossmember. A lot better outside too now, must have been also affecting the sound level at the mufflers.
Should be heaps better with the final production headers which are 15mm longer on the vertical to clear the crossmember more, as mine are vibrating occasionally depending on revs and gradient.

Just did a accurate check of a tank of mixed highway and town driving, averaged 8.2L/100k's.

wtf 8.2 i dont even get that with a stock euro LOL iam lucky to get 12's

[tony1234]

Look forward to the report Suntzu.:thumbsup:

[tinkerbell]

wtf 8.2 i dont even get that with a stock euro LOL iam lucky to get 12's

that is terrible. are you sure you dont have a MAJOR problem with your car?

[Merlin086]

wtf 8.2 i dont even get that with a stock euro LOL iam lucky to get 12's

When I was testing it thoroughly when it was first installed, with lots of "spirited" driving on country roads, I was getting mid 11's/100k's.


The biggest difference with the extreme is all the torque down low, so I tend to drive in 5th gear around town, as it is happy in 5th down to 30kph.

6th still needs 80kph minimum to have reasonable acceleration, but way better than before at 100k's.

Glad I don't live in a big city coz that's got to cost about 4L/100k's, all that stationary time at traffic lights, and frequent starts............:thumbdwn:

[tony1234]

wtf 8.2 i dont even get that with a stock euro LOL iam lucky to get 12's
Do you have man.or auto?

[johnprocter]

auto why what diff does it make i get about 480km out of a full tank and i never even turn air con on..

[tony1234]

auto why what diff does it make i get about 480km out of a full tank and i never even turn air con on..
Man.cars always get better fuel economy than autos.high 10s i think is typical for an auto.BTW i've got a manual and i get high 8s in city driving.someone here with an auto should be able to give you a better idea.

[tinkerbell]

my mate (05 Euro manual) gets 600-750 per tank with air con all the time, VTEC often...

plus he has Injen CAI...

recently he got 7.8l/100 on a trip to Forbes...

but i didnt think auto would be THAT much worse!

[aaronng]

auto why what diff does it make i get about 480km out of a full tank and i never even turn air con on..
Autos drink more for sure. Especially for the Euro. I get 10.5L/100km city driving and 7.1L/100km pure highway for the manual. A friend with the auto does about 12L/100km city.

[BiLL|z0r]

I get about 10.5-11L/100km in my 05 Std Auto. That's vtecing about 3-8 times a tank and mainly city driving. If I do mainly highway driving I get about 9. If I do all highway driving I get about 7. I could get as high as 12 if I reved off at the lights, late braked and generally acted like a dick (which we all do from time to time).
But anyway, this should be in the fuel consumption thread.

[Cranial]

Re-reading what I wrote, I guess it could have been taken a different way to what I intended to say. In anycase, it's good to see you giving the flash a go when so many people haven't done so.
I plan to get the flash, I have no money at the moment as I myself have done some unique drivetrain mods to my Euro, which I will write up a review for soon.

[Suntzu]

Thats fair enough. Its hard to say if its worth it cause different people put value on different things in certain ways.

Interested in hearing about these custom mods. Good to see people trying things.:thumbsup:

I got a free Hondata:honda: Heat shield gasket when my ECU blew so Im going to fit that and a throttle body bypass. Not sure if my buttdyno will register the 1.6 kw increase ;) though. But really im doing it for fun and something to try eh?

[johnprocter]

why does auto use more? what if i use tip tronic (lol this may sound like a stupid question)

[aaronng]

why does auto use more? what if i use tip tronic (lol this may sound like a stupid question)
Because it has a torque convertor. Sacrifices revs to smoothen out the drive and to get more torque. More revs + more throttle = more fuel consumption.

[Merlin086]

Damn, just my luck........:thumbdwn:

Was going to take my euro with the extreme kit down the 400m @ Willowbank tonight, bloody wicked storm going thru Brisbane now...:(


Have to wait 'till next week now, I even headed off but phoned home to check the radar loop...luckily.....all bad news......:thumbdwn:

Ah well, used to delays........hmmmm....lol

[Suntzu]

I think my ECU is adapting better now after a few days of running. Got more power so it seems or could be the lower temps ATM. Either way a stock euro isnt getting near me, love to drive an extreme kit tho.

[Merlin086]

Damn, just my luck........:thumbdwn:

Was going to take my euro with the extreme kit down the 400m @ Willowbank tonight, bloody wicked storm going thru Brisbane now...:(


Have to wait 'till next week now, I even headed off but phoned home to check the radar loop...luckily.....all bad news......:thumbdwn:

Ah well, used to delays........hmmmm....lol

One week on, made the 2 hr trip, big rain cloud over Willowbank on arrival 15min before start.

...and then it pissed down......:thumbdwn:

Got called off 5 min before start, too wet!

....so 2 hr trip home....try again next week.......:)

[enkay]

o man, i feel sorry for you haha
its the curse of jtune gear, everything gets delayed =P
but yer hope next week it wont rain for you hehe

[Pumped]

that sucks :(

Been lots of rain around lately, Went to Eastern Creek yesterday and was worried i wouldnt get on the track for rain, was lucky enough for it not to be wet :)

Curious to see the numbers it puts down to :)

So whats the deal with j tune now, is he doing mild flash tunes for anyone?
is it just me or was the original price for the mild tune supposed to be $980? and its now $1250?

[yfin]

One week on, made the 2 hr trip, big rain cloud over Willowbank on arrival 15min before start.

...and then it pissed down......:thumbdwn:

Got called off 5 min before start, too wet!

....so 2 hr trip home....try again next week.......:)

That is a shame - do you have the final extreme kit yet or is it still the pre-production stuff?

[Merlin086]

That is a shame - do you have the final extreme kit yet or is it still the pre-production stuff?

Still waiting for the final gear.....but it's coming ..........................


March maybe.....................................:zip:... ..:eek:

[Merlin086]

Finally got to put my euro extreme down the 1/4 mile at Willowbank last night.

Heaps of people after rained out the last 2 meets, so only got a couple of runs in.

First timer, so improvements to be made, especially reaction time, but my busted left hip doesn't help with the clutch..........:thumbdwn:

1st run.....15.3
2nd run....15.3
3rd run.....15.1

Should crack 15 with a decent start and spare etc dumped.....and a bit more practise......lol....

Going to give it another run in 6 weeks or so when I have the final production exhaust............:thumbsup:

[JunYu]

hm, i'm a little dissapointed with those numbers actually.
I don't know, but i was expecting mid 14's.

I'm still in for the mild tune though :)

[Chris_F]

Finally got to put my euro extreme down the 1/4 mile at Willowbank last night.

Heaps of people after rained out the last 2 meets, so only got a couple of runs in.

First timer, so improvements to be made, especially reaction time, but my busted left hip doesn't help with the clutch..........:thumbdwn:

1st run.....15.3
2nd run....15.3
3rd run.....15.1

Should crack 15 with a decent start and spare etc dumped.....and a bit more practise......lol....

Going to give it another run in 6 weeks or so when I have the final production exhaust............:thumbsup:

cool, thanks for letting us know. The car should be capable of 14's in the colder months. What was your final MPH?

Was it a hot day aswell? I remember my car ran a bit slow down the strip because ambient temp was up over 36degrees (3300ft+ relative altitude).

[Merlin086]

The 15.1 was with VSA on, track temp of 33C and humidity 83 %

KPH was 150.88 or 93.75 MPH

If I can control the wheelspin next time with VSA off I can see mid 14's possible if VSA off can make as much difference as many suggest.

Didn't do any research on launching before going either......:eek:
.......bad mistake.................:thumbdwn:

[aaronng]

VSA off should make a nice difference. Even when stock, VSA on and off makes a difference in the fast shifts. So the benefits will be better if you turn it off on your Euro.

[Chris_F]

The 15.1 was with VSA on, track temp of 33C and humidity 83 %

KPH was 150.88 or 93.75 MPH

If I can control the wheelspin next time with VSA off I can see mid 14's possible if VSA off can make as much difference as many suggest.

Didn't do any research on launching before going either......:eek:
.......bad mistake.................:thumbdwn:

nice MPH, it's a shame that with the standard gearing you have to change gears just before the 400m line.

I've only been to the strip once but I ran with VSA on and once with it off. With it off the time improved by 0.4 seconds. Sounds like the car should hit a mid 14 pretty easily :thumbsup:

[hooyn]

33C / 83% humidity = :O

[yfin]

The 15.1 was with VSA on, track temp of 33C and humidity 83 %

KPH was 150.88 or 93.75 MPH

If I can control the wheelspin next time with VSA off I can see mid 14's possible if VSA off can make as much difference as many suggest.

Didn't do any research on launching before going either......:eek:
.......bad mistake.................:thumbdwn:

Ordinary conditions for the drags and I can't believe you had VSA on!!! :) I don't think you will get down to mid 14s unless it is in much cooler temp - but high 14s are there for sure.

[Merlin086]

Ordinary conditions for the drags and I can't believe you had VSA on!!! :) I don't think you will get down to mid 14s unless it is in much cooler temp - but high 14s are there for sure.



Only managed the 15.3 with VSA off due to wheelspin. I only dropped my tyre pressure to 30 psi (20psi better?) so next time should see some improvement.

My 3rd run was at a cooler temp. than the first 2 and VSA on was a test to see what the time would be with no wheelspin, I was surprised myself.

But between my lack of experience, VSA on, high track temp and high tyre pressure, I can see mid 14's quite feasable.

Top end acceleration looks impressive on my slips, but my starts are...................:thumbdwn:

Might chuck out the spare too next time, and :eek:my UBD.....

[yfin]

Just saw this from Jtune website.. some owners of extreme kit complaining of harmonics and unbearable difference in noise levels.

The amusing thing is the proposed solution by Jtune. I laughed when I saw this.. :D

Clients who are concerned about experiencing VTEC and are planning to purchase the JTune Extreme kit we recommended to keep driving throttle position to a minimum.
http://jtune.com.au/JTune-Noise.pdf

[johnprocter]

lol...

[BiLL|z0r]

So much for the professional & legal system. In these circumstances I'd normally say it looks like it was released too fast, but in this case I don't think so.

[aaronng]

LOL, why release a letter as a joke like that?

[Gibbo]

I think you need to read the article in full to understand it, not just small bits as yfin has posted, have a read or if I may… ill just summaries it.

“If you don’t want to make your car go fast, leave it stock what fool wouldn’t want Vtec ! People complaining about Vtec should be shoot, I would love more Vtec noise in my Euro, but i cant afford it.”:wave::wave:




Extreme WARNING for JTune Extreme Euro Owners


26/1/2008

To Whom It May Concern:
Common feed back from a small number of JTune Extreme Euro owners are reporting an extremely disturbing sound which is experienced from approximately 3500rpm onwards until redline when accelerating hard.
This noise has been described by clients as the following:

• Metallic reverberation throughout the car above 3500 rpm

• Unbearable difference above 3500 rpm

• My passenger complains and needs to commonly repeat words when I accelerate hard over 3500 rpm

• The exhaust and intake growls at me like its angry above 3500 rpm

• Annoying Harmonics echo above 3500 rpm

An example of the described noise can be downloaded here. The questionable noise starts to occur 1.3 seconds after the beginning of the example.

JTune Official Response regarding owners concerns.

After conducting research into owner’s reports we have found the exact cause of the reported noise. The described noise by owners occurs exactly at 3638rpm when throttle position is above 20% and or 5600rpm when throttle is below 20%.

The exact cause of this noise is commonly known to the Honda Performance community as "VTEC". VTEC is a perfectly normal noise, a noise which the typical Honda Performance community pays good money to experience.
VTEC engaging is when the engine changes cam profile allowing more air into the engine by increasing the distance and time which both the exhaust and intake valves are open for. VTEC on the standard Honda Accord Euro is activated at 6000rpm, from our research the majority of Honda Accord Euro owners hardly rev their car above 6000 rpm therefore never experience VTEC.

Our JTune Extreme Euro kit has been designed from day one to produce maximum possible power throughout the entire rev range. One way we achieve this is through our radical header design which allows us to lower the VTEC point considerably from the standard position. The lowered VTEC point allows us to gain massive midrange performance all the way to redline which deliveries what we consider a delightful VTEC noise.

Clients who are concerned about experiencing VTEC and are planning to purchase the JTune Extreme kit we recommended to keep driving throttle position to a minimum. For those customers who do not wish to experience the VTEC experience altogether we can disable VTEC although performance gains will be greatly reduced by more than 65%.

[johnprocter]

umm lol yfin did post a link to that.. lol

[aaronng]

It is sort of a satirical letter, trying to show off that the extreme kit is for performance, not for carrying out conversations under hard acceleration. :)

[Gibbo]

http://jtune.com.au/JTune-Noise.pdf

Yes he did.. lol this is the funniest thing I have ever read, Honda owners NOT wanting Vtec, but wanting performance, that’s like wanting sex with a hot super model but with out physically being with them, its just not going to happen.

[Merlin086]

I read this last week.....

I feel I must comment......

The sound file I sent to James and was attached to a email I sent him on
17th January, in regard to............

Quote:-

"It is recorded with windows up on a winding, slightly up hill section in 3rd and 4th gear, @ 60-80k's.
You can clearly hear the harmonics through the car, and the vibration in 3rd gear between 3500-4000 revs."




I was assured by James that "no-one else has complained", however the comments quoted by him regarding the noise are not mine!

The serious harmonics in my car have now been 80% rectified by a exhaust specialist spreading apart the header pipes to stop them vibrating on each other. The serious metallic vibration I believe is caused by the header pipes vibrating on the crossmember ( The header pipes I have been told have been lengthened about 15mm to prevent this.)

Apart from the metallic vibration I have been happy with the noise since the header were adjusted.

It surprises me now to find that there are complaints other than mine, having been told that everyone else is happy with the noise, and that one customer had said it was too quiet.

I find it a little misleading to select a few seconds of a 2 minute sound file of the sound of the harmonics within my car, which has now been primarily rectified, as a supposed example of Vtec and the basis of other customer complaints.



The serious metallic vibration that still occurs is only there between 3.5k's and 4k's, and I find it slightly unbelievable that this is caused by Vtec as if this is true my Vtec cuts out at 4k....lol

I frequently used Vtec, prior to any engine modifications, on a daily basis and never once experienced a serious metallic vibration.

Have to add I luv the power, and happy with the noise except fot that
3.5-4k vibration.
Car can be very stealth now, or roar when pushed.....:thumbsup:


Merlin says.......

Some people should probably do more and say less.......

[yfin]

If I was a customer who had metalic vibrations through the cabin from 3500rpm onwards I would want it fixed as it can be annoying as hell.

I would also be insulted if the solution was an open letter that said this is completely normal and to use less than 20% throttle or turn off VTEC permanently.

As others have said this product was marketed for the professional crowd - not rev heads. The letter does not address the concerns raised by people who are not happy with the noise levels and downplays the complaints by effectively saying customers are just ignorant of the sound of VTEC.

Nice way to treat customers.

..........

Sadly in today’s world gone are the days of loud exhaust systems as the law is being more and more tough, these days people opted for stealth installations. Our system has a few major primary goals, maximum power, in both mid range and up top, maximum drive ability, and increase fuel economy and most of all not overly louder than stock.

[Gibbo]

Sound recording of the JTune Euro being noised tested by the EPA – taken from www.jtune.com.au/news.html (http://www.jtune.com.au/news.html)

Idle = 68db
2000 rpm = 82db
3000 rpm = 83db
4500 rpm = 85db


http://www.jtune.com.au/4500rpm.jpg
(http://www.jtune.com.au/4500rpm.jpg)
Video File - http://www.jtune.com.au/jtune_0004.wmv (http://www.jtune.com.au/jtune_0004.wmv)

Passes with flying colours, if the EPA is happy with the noise I can’t see why most owners wouldn’t be. Credit for JTune to inform clients of there finding and results, if only I could afford an extreme kit, I’m waiting for a group buy or something!

[yfin]

Firstly it is not just noise - it is vibrations in the vehicle. Do you think the EPA measure that?

Secondly, at what throttle level is the 4500rpm measure taken? As the letter says the complaints of noise relate to more than 20% throttle.

[Gibbo]

I guess the moral to this is if you don’t like it well don’t buy, but then again yfin you sold your Euro for a Holden, although clearly Merlin086 and LUXURO enjoy there kit, read here for more.

http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1747 (http://www.hondatech.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1747)

Now lets arrange a group buy !

[EUR003act]

Firstly it is not just noise - it is vibrations in the vehicle. Do you think the EPA measure that?

Secondly, at what throttle level is the 4500rpm measure taken? As the letter says the complaints of noise relate to more than 20% throttle.

ill tell you this now:

the EPA do not WOT up to 4500rpm.... its a slow gradual depression of the pedal... from practical testing in my car, once at 4500rpm, keeping it there is anywhere between 10-20% throttle...

so in answer to yfin, im pretty much certain that 85db wouldnt be with induction noise... and yes, cabin vibrations are very annoying!

since changing to my RBC intake now with SRI im getting a slight vibration/drone from 2400-2600rpm... in every gear when more than 20% throttle :( at first i liked it, now its annoying, especially since 102km/hr in 6th gear is smack on 2500rpm... im working on changing the iintake/positioning soon

[jimmeh]

Euro owners sound like s2k owners…. A pain in the ass, if you don’t want Vtec go buy a Holden like yfin

[yfin]

Euro owners sound like s2k owners…. A pain in the ass, if you don’t want Vtec go buy a Holden like yfin

Yeah Euro owners can be fussy that is very true.

But paying $5000 for the extreme kit is a lot of cash! So people are going to expect that there will be no annoying vibrations or harmonics - or at least such complaints to be taken seriously. Anyway - I think the letter is a joke, it just implies existing customers are ignorant of the sound of VTEC.

[Merlin086]

Comments by James have caused doubt that concerns are justified, by throwing in the Vtec comment.

In all fairness, my car had a exhaust tip reading @.5m of 102db@4350rpm prior to the headers being spread, and now has a reading of 87db (checked by exhaust specialist)

As yfin stated..
Vtec is one thing, but harmonics and metallic vibrations are something else.

Don't be confused between the two for those who haven't heard the difference!

My final prototype system is due to be replaced with the production one later March, so personally I can't comment on the final product until my headers etc have been replaced. (Has been 3 1/2 months wait so far)

So personally, for my euro, it is only the slight harmonics that persist along with a metallic vibration @3.5-4k.

If these matters are sorted I will be a happy customer, if not, well, I didn't get what I paid for did I?...........hmmm

[Ozluder]

Yeah Euro owners can be fussy that is very true.

But paying $5000 for the extreme kit is a lot of cash! So people are going to expect that there will be no annoying vibrations or harmonics - or at least such complaints to be taken seriously. Anyway - I think the letter is a joke, it just implies existing customers are ignorant of the sound of VTEC.

I agree with Yfin.

I believe the Jtune Products are overpriced and the letter just shows the lack of professionalism from Jtune. :thumbdwn:

[Omotesando]

The harmonics problem at around the mid-rpm range is very common amongst modified cars especially with changed headers or bigger exhaust.

Not saying that it is alright for the JTune extreme package to have this problem but yeh it is apparently a problem for other cars too.

Its probably a resonance problem.

A lot of stock air intake systems have a built in feature to get rid of this resonance from the intake side as well. :(

[Pumped]

Jtune is a joke, 6-8 weeks was promised in october/november
All hope, if there ever was any is dead.

service is pathetic, he doesn't reply to emails and has not given any updates on why its been delayed or when the kits are expected to ship.
Ive heard more on this forum than i have on his own forum and from himself.

[tony1234]

After i got my Comptech headers installed i had a similar problem that you're having Merlin.it was a vibrating/resonance type of sound but it only occurred when i was sitting in traffic,idling with the aircon on.What my guy did to fix it was 2 things.1.relocate the mounting bracket near the cat so the rubber mount would exert some pressure on the exhaust system to reduce the vibrating,but i think the main thing that fixed my problem was welding the existing bracket that is attached to the engine block that supports the OEM headers to the Comptech ones.It's located where,on the OEM headers,go from 4-1 into the large pipe that then goes at 90 deg angle into the cat.It's worth a try,i'd be surprised if it doesn't fix your problem Merlin.It fixed mine.:thumbsup:

[Suntzu]

I have the vibrating issue with air con on also. i have cheapy stainless topspeed headers. I might need to pm you about this.

My Mild flash is going ok. I havent reviewed it yet as I havent driven enough. Going pretty well tho.

[sodaz]

LOL at the letter from Jtune. They should spend more time fixing and testing their products instead of writing silly responses like that. :thumbdwn:

I've sat in the Jtune car and there's definitely some audible cabin vibrations and resonance in parts of the rev range. And this has absolutely nothing to do with vtec. I vtec on a daily basis and it's not the same kind of sound at all.

[Omotesando]

Well it seems like apart from the cabin noise, JTune has re-changed the exhaust dimensions to reduce noises as well.

I reckon with NA cars, unfortunately, any big changes to exhaust part of the engine will increase resonance or raspiness.

Turbo cars have an advantage in this instance as the turbo kind of muffles the increased noise and whatever vibrations it tends to bring. :)

[EUR003act]

from what **a certain company** has told me, and from what i know through personnel experience (RBC manifold for example)... im beginning to think (pretty much confirmed) that they may not have as much knowledge as they think... on multiple occasions ive been given incorrect information from what i thought was an expert... anyway, ive found a new expert (he knows who he is :p) and he's no fake :thumbsup:

[wynode]

since changing to my RBC intake now with SRI im getting a slight vibration/drone from 2400-2600rpm... in every gear when more than 20% throttle :( at first i liked it, now its annoying, especially since 102km/hr in 6th gear is smack on 2500rpm... im working on changing the iintake/positioning soon

Just keep in mind that removing the factory resonator will cause this. It's there to tune out standing waves and if your remove it....you will get a droning effect under load.

[EUR003act]

Just keep in mind that removing the factory resonator will cause this. It's there to tune out standing waves and if your remove it....you will get a droning effect under load.

nah its a completly different sound to that... and i didnt get it with SRI or CAI on my RBB manifold... nor with CAI on RBC, its only when using SRI on the RBC... so ill have to look into it further :) thanks tho

[BiLL|z0r]

Just keep in mind that removing the factory resonator will cause this. It's there to tune out standing waves and if your remove it....you will get a droning effect under load.

I've done this and it's a great sound and not what I'd call annoying. I've sat in Merlin's car to/from Brissie and it's down right annoying. This was before any of the latest changes though.

[Nepolian]

Hi guys,

First of all, I dont own a Euro! and I'm giving this as a personal opionion as an outsider with no bias to anyone! :)

It funny to see how JTune has gone about and unfortunately whilst trying to please customers and reporting an early release of their product. They did not consider the initial R & D and production of the products! Looks like they've learnt and has done better with the FN kit.

N/A car are very loud with big high flowing exhausts and unfortunately that is just fact!

Question? Is the noise still there if you ran the exhaust with the silencers that James has? If so, you may need to reduce the size of the mufflers from I think the 3" to maybe 2.25, that shoud reduce some if not all the harmonics.

If someone talks to James about the noise, I am sure he would be able to fit a smaller muffler (2) to reduce noise for the sake of a few kws. Even for a test!

Having said that, really.......if you buy an 'Extream' kit for your car, any car for that matter, its going to be louder. It will not be the same as before!

Problem with genric kits or mass produced kits like this is that its not going to please everyone. Even for aftermarket cat backs, people whinge that they're too loud. What do you expect!

Talk to James and Im sure he can accomadate small changes where possible.

IMHO, if you think the kit costs too much and is too loud, dont buy it! Get the reflash and keep your car a stocker.

Sorry that it is a bit long winded. Just thought you guys want an objective opinion about this as there seems to be alot of pro Jtune comments and con Jtune.

Goodluck fellas and Peace out! :)

[aaronng]

It funny to see how JTune has gone about and unfortunately whilst trying to please customers and reporting an early release of their product. They did not consider the initial R & D and production of the products! Looks like they've learnt and has done better with the FN kit.


Thing is, we've been waiting since 2005. :)

[wynode]

Problem with genric kits or mass produced kits like this is that its not going to please everyone. Even for aftermarket cat backs, people whinge that they're too loud. What do you expect!

Talk to James and Im sure he can accomadate small changes where possible.

IMHO, if you think the kit costs too much and is too loud, dont buy it! Get the reflash and keep your car a stocker.


I think the whole problem is that a kit is being offered that promises increases in power output while keeping noise levels down. Not to mention the delays and constant hickups.

[BiLL|z0r]

I think the whole problem is that a kit is being offered that promises increases in power output while keeping noise levels down. Not to mention the delays and constant hickups.

Bingo!! Hit the nail firmly on the head. If we wanted the ricer sound we'd go get any of the other aftermarket exhausts and intakes. The noise (or lack of) and performance was what made the Jtune so attractive.

[tony1234]

I've lost all confidence in the Jtune gear.It's a pity because it was just what i was looking for.:(

[Suntzu]

I had a fews issues when my car ecu was reflashed. My ecu was fried as you know. It got sorted out and I got the first retail mild flash.

I have to say that after driving my car a bit this week, the performance and throttle response is really outstanding. Its the instant response that makes the most difference at part throttle than the outright power gains.

Ill get my car dynoed soon and see what we have. I'd be surprised if it was less than 15kw up on stock.

[Lukey13]

For those with the Hondata reflash, do you plan to have your car serviced at Honda dealerships with the risk of them reflashing your ECU with a potential update to the Euro and inadvertantly losing your Hondata reflash and its performance gains???

[yfin]

For those with the Hondata reflash, do you plan to have your car serviced at Honda dealerships with the risk of them reflashing your ECU with a potential update to the Euro and inadvertantly losing your Hondata reflash and its performance gains???

Honda dealers do not have the ability to reflash the ECU according to Jtune.

[johnprocter]

jtune also said this shit would be ready a year ago LOL can we really trust what they say?

[EUR003act]

jtune also said this shit would be ready a year ago LOL can we really trust what they say?

they also said i would loose power using an RBC manifold...

[johnprocter]

lol oh deary

[ok2]

While Honda dealers may not be able to re-flash and also cannot may not be able to read the ECU to determine it has been updated I would think they would more likely pick the earlier VTEC cut in (assuming a mild re-flash, the changed intake, exhaust etc. of the extreme would be kind of obvious :p). What I wonder about is the effect this would this have on

1) Any warranty claims
2) Dealer approach to any "engine related issue" that might arise
3) General attitude of dealer service staff

I'm still kind of interested in the mild re-flash, just waiting to see how it all pans out.

[aaronng]

Honda dealers do not have the ability to reflash the ECU according to Jtune.
Which was proven otherwise when a TSX owner in the US had his Hondata reflash "erased" when they updated his ECU software. :)

[Suntzu]

I actually have the flash and im not worried at all as I know my dealer wont do it without contacting me first. Doesnt worry me in the slightest.

[Merlin086]

I actually have the flash and im not worried at all as I know my dealer wont do it without contacting me first. Doesnt worry me in the slightest.

Is your lid painted for the mild flash like mine for the extreme ?

Bit hard for them not to know with Hondata painted across the ECU lid in bright red paint!

[BiLL|z0r]

oh bugger. That's not cool.

[Suntzu]

Is your lid painted for the mild flash like mine for the extreme ?

Bit hard for them not to know with Hondata painted across the ECU lid in bright red paint!

Actually my lid is stock. It was because of the initial problem flashing my ecu that I have a completely stock looking unit.

Once my warranty is up im actually going to tell them its flashed. i wont have any issues from my dealer. I spend a lot of money there including a new CRV lux.

[Crapdaz]

how much difference does it make with hondata reflash with hondata setup compared to your own setup of I/H/E?

Regards,

[Suntzu]

how much difference does it make with hondata reflash with hondata setup compared to your own setup of I/H/E?

Regards,


OK, I found a decent improvement going from stock to CAI and header at once. Better at revving and a bit more torque.

Then after a few months I got the Jtune mild flash. Its about the same again. So together theres a very good increase in total. With the flash it was greatly improved throttle response and better midrange torque and generally smoother and more flexible engine performance than stock.

I would not recommend the mild flash without I/H you wouldn't be seeing the gains. This is brought out my the graphs at jtune showing the mild flash with/without Intake etc.

Im pretty happy with my car now, esp after all the screwing around. Its really good to drive now and a lot of fun. Im not going to get exhaust at this stage as im yet to see a single argument for decent performance gains without a lot of noise. My car is very close to stock sounding but pulls like a M**ther now. Stealth...

[Crapdaz]

OK, I found a decent improvement going from stock to CAI and header at once. Better at revving and a bit more torque.

Then after a few months I got the Jtune mild flash. Its about the same again. So together theres a very good increase in total. With the flash it was greatly improved throttle response and better midrange torque and generally smoother and more flexible engine performance than stock.

I would not recommend the mild flash without I/H you wouldn't be seeing the gains. This is brought out my the graphs at jtune showing the mild flash with/without Intake etc.

Im pretty happy with my car now, esp after all the screwing around. Its really good to drive now and a lot of fun. Im not going to get exhaust at this stage as im yet to see a single argument for decent performance gains without a lot of noise. My car is very close to stock sounding but pulls like a M**ther now. Stealth...

What header are you running suntzu? and how much gains did you get from dyno run?

[Lukey13]

OK, I found a decent improvement going from stock to CAI and header at once. Better at revving and a bit more torque.

Then after a few months I got the Jtune mild flash. Its about the same again. So together theres a very good increase in total. With the flash it was greatly improved throttle response and better midrange torque and generally smoother and more flexible engine performance than stock.

I would not recommend the mild flash without I/H you wouldn't be seeing the gains. This is brought out my the graphs at jtune showing the mild flash with/without Intake etc.

Im pretty happy with my car now, esp after all the screwing around. Its really good to drive now and a lot of fun. Im not going to get exhaust at this stage as im yet to see a single argument for decent performance gains without a lot of noise. My car is very close to stock sounding but pulls like a M**ther now. Stealth...

Hi Suntzu

Thanks for your feedback on the mild reflash. You seem to be just about the only person around who has one at the moment. I'm still waiting until practically I can go without my car for a week before I get Jtune to give my reflash another go (last attempt failed).

I tend to agree that a reflash without intake would likely be a waste of time. I'm not so sure about the necessity of headers though.

You mention that your car sounds very stock, so I'm assuming that the reflash doesn't result in any extra noise - except maybe the fact that vtec kicks in at 5K. Do your headers make more noise than the Icebox?

I'm curious as to whether headers change the exhaust note on the Euro or make it louder and whether there is much performance gain?

In regards to exhaust, I share your sentiment of not wanting to make the Euro louder when the current system seems to cope well with I/H and reflash.

[Suntzu]

I have the cheapy stainless steel Topspeed header. It does hiss a bit. I could not hear it at all over the sucking sound of the Fujita CAI but now I have the Comptech Icebox they sound about the same in loudness. Not very loud, hardly over stock. Only you would pick it, not a euro owner. The hissing is only noticeable at 2000-3500 rpm. Its very minor. It doesnt even register to me and im fussy.

The Jtune flash makes no difference to noise. The vtec engages in about 5000rpm, but theres no kick. Its just a relentless surge. No in some ways its quieter.

I had a specific budget in mind and a specific power output in mind. So that swhy I didnt go the extreme ( also noise isue) or get Toda headers etc. I reckon I might have excellent bang for buck once i get the Dyno done. cheers

[curik]

How much is the cost of the reflash Suntzu? Is it actually 1250? Can it be lower? Does it include dynos?

[Suntzu]

I got the pre order price of about $900 , I think its a bit more now, check the www.jtune.com.au (http://www.jtune.com.au) site. No you dont get dynos unless you ask/pay.

It depends on your ability to negotiate.

Im surprised that there's not more here with the flash as a heap of users here were talking it up ....but I guess not willing to put their money where there mouth is.

Hows the extreme guys going? Some more feedback would be nice re: power and noise issues. cheers

[Peekay34]

Apprently Honda Australia/dealers do not reflash Australian cars so there is very little chance of losing the flash.

[tony1234]

I got the pre order price of about $900 , I think its a bit more now, check the www.jtune.com.au (http://www.jtune.com.au) site. No you dont get dynos unless you ask/pay.

It depends on your ability to negotiate.

Im surprised that there's not more here with the flash as a heap of users here were talking it up ....but I guess not willing to put their money where there mouth is.

Hows the extreme guys going? Some more feedback would be nice re: power and noise issues. cheers
I'd get it but doing without my car for 3-5 days just makes it too hard to do.I think i speak for quite a few of us here.

[curik]

If its under $1k I will undoubtedly get it. But on jtune.com.au its listed at 1250, which is a lot more than the 900 pre order price. Can anyone share their knowledge?

[Merlin086]

I got the pre order price of about $900 , I think its a bit more now, check the www.jtune.com.au (http://www.jtune.com.au) site. No you dont get dynos unless you ask/pay.

It depends on your ability to negotiate.

Im surprised that there's not more here with the flash as a heap of users here were talking it up ....but I guess not willing to put their money where there mouth is.

Hows the extreme guys going? Some more feedback would be nice re: power and noise issues. cheers


Still waiting for the final exhaust system, haven't heard anything from James since January.

Hoping to get a dyno done when the exhaust gets switched over from the prototype. Can't comment on the noise of the final system untill then.

I'll have another attempt at the 400m again then.......:thumbsup:

[JunYu]

hopefully we'll see better times :D keep us updated!

[Merlin086]

hopefully we'll see better times :D keep us updated!

Haha....I'm sure you will....

Second time around I just might nail the launch......:thumbsup:

Have to practise on the "on" ramps on the highway...all 100k's around my place.....:thumbsup::thumbsup::cool:

[yfin]

Haha,

Another sucker who believes the final Jtune products for the euro exists.

I can tell you they do not exist, as I would have them after paying just under $4,500 for them November 2007.

I have now been running the prototype, along with it's many faults, ( so that James could have a demo car in Brisbane) for almost 5 months now.

Was supposed to have been replaced early January (after 5-6 weeks)then...............March.................sti ll friggin nothin!

Hmm........I can feel a lawsuit coming on......

Jtune extreme for the euro does not exist.....apparently..:eek:

So what is the deal Merlin - saw you post the above in another thread? Have you thought about asking for your money back, getting your car to how it was - and be done with this?

If they have treated you poorly (and you are one of the first customers who should be treated like a VIP) - how are they going to treat you if there are issues down the track?

Rather than a lawyer - have you thought about the small claims tribunal in your state? Far less cost and still very effective as you are suggesting you have not got what you paid for (and the value is less than $7500).

link (http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/5393CC03-4BB7-42D1-96F6-0FC4C435D84B/0/guide_A5_smallclaims_4web_part1.pdf)

Another question I have is why they even considered the Civic Type R project before they had concluded the Euro project.

[Suntzu]

That is dissapointing for sure.

That being said im having zero issues with my mild tune. Going extremely well. Just got a 6.2l/100km on a trip last week which is friggin phenomenal. Powers good too.

I would'nt put up with that shit though. Thats some BS that needs resolving asap.

[Chris_F]

^ good to hear!

but with all the stuffing around with the Jtune reflash why aren't more people opting for an e-manage ultimate or haltech interceptor? A few members have those now and the gains are ranging from 12-15kw in peak power...

[enkay]

agreed with that ^^^ thats why im goin that route in the future if it goes that way, unless that is they crack the dbw and stuff and we can use kpro with i doubt it will happen any time soon

[Chris_F]

yea don't hold you're breath on the kpro. there are already DBW compatible ecu's on the market they just cost more than most are willing to pay

[BiLL|z0r]

So is the Mild tune that Suntzu has the final version but the extreme flash (and the parts that go with it) is not?

[tony1234]

^ good to hear!

but with all the stuffing around with the Jtune reflash why aren't more people opting for an e-manage ultimate or haltech interceptor? A few members have those now and the gains are ranging from 12-15kw in peak power...
The Haltech Interceptor you can't adjust vtec crossover.cost with tuning is approx.$1500.Not sure on the e-manage,does anyone here know?Also cost inc.tuning?

[Chris_F]

The Haltech Interceptor you can't adjust vtec crossover.cost with tuning is approx.$1500.Not sure on the e-manage,does anyone here know?Also cost inc.tuning?

That's true, but with the hondata flash the vtec point is only being changed by 1000rpm anyway and the trade-off is you're using a generic "one map fits all" flash. ALN has the e-manage ultimate and he said his tuner found the optimum Vtec point to be 5500rpm anyway. He gained 12kw atw on top of an already impressive (120kw+) base figure with his combination of I/H/E.

$1500 for the interceptor or e-manage ultimate installed and tuned (both about $800 for the product alone) is a similar price to some popular cat-backs and for a 12-15kw gain in peak power that sounds reasonable to me. If you decide VTEC control and VTC control is important you can always add a V-manage later down the road (controls change over point and cam timing) but with a basic I/H/E the gains mightn't be worth the cost.

With the interceptor and e-manage you're also getting a more accurate tune that makes the most of the particular mods you've made to you're car.

Sure, not everyone will see this the same way, but that's my perspective. It seems the new generation of piggy-back ecu's are a bit under-rated - the ecu is no longer able to "re-learn" so that's another disadvantage out the window.

/rant lol

[sodaz]

That's true, but with the hondata flash the vtec point is only being changed by 1000rpm anyway and the trade-off is you're using a generic "one map fits all" flash. ALN has the e-manage ultimate and he said his tuner found the optimum Vtec point to be 5500rpm anyway. He gained 12kw atw on top of an already impressive (120kw+) base figure with his combination of I/H/E.

$1500 for the interceptor or e-manage ultimate installed and tuned (both about $800 for the product alone) is a similar price to some popular cat-backs and for a 12-15kw gain in peak power that sounds reasonable to me. If you decide VTEC control and VTC control is important you can always add a V-manage later down the road (controls change over point and cam timing) but with a basic I/H/E the gains mightn't be worth the cost.

With the interceptor and e-manage you're also getting a more accurate tune that makes the most of the particular mods you've made to you're car.

Sure, not everyone will see this the same way, but that's my perspective. It seems the new generation of piggy-back ecu's are a bit under-rated - the ecu is no longer able to "re-learn" so that's another disadvantage out the window.

/rant lol

I agree with you mate. I'd rather get the e-manage than the J-tune reflash to maximize the gains of my mods rather than a "one size fits all" solution. Since the ECU cannot re-learn it's better than other products like the Apexi VAFC and NEO.

[rt1688]

Still waiting for the final exhaust system, haven't heard anything from James since January.

Hoping to get a dyno done when the exhaust gets switched over from the prototype. Can't comment on the noise of the final system untill then.

I'll have another attempt at the 400m again then.......:thumbsup:

Lucky I said no to James when he asked if i can be the prototype euro for jtune extreme kit. If i said yes then i will be in the same shoes as Merlin086. I personally think Jtune are too busy with the civic typer and leaving the euro project aside.

By the way which insurance company did you switch to after the extreme kit installation?.

[BiLL|z0r]

If Jtune had a Euro you'd bet it would be done by now but since James' CTR is there everyday and he gets personal benefit from it you can bet that's why it's already finished.

[johnprocter]

lol i cant believe the CTR packages are on the way but euro ones still arent :S

[Crapdaz]

Sounds like best option would be haltech interceptor or Emanage ultimate.

Just a noobish question right how you know what settings to be tuned for? would the guy tuning know what to set it at or you tell him your specs?

[aaronng]

Sounds like best option would be haltech interceptor or Emanage ultimate.

Just a noobish question right how you know what settings to be tuned for? would the guy tuning know what to set it at or you tell him your specs?

The tuner should dyno tune it specific to your car. There is nothing you can tell him other than the mods you have, which he might not even require.

[Crapdaz]

sounds pretty good thanks aaron.

Would you prefer Haltech interceptor or Emanage Ult reasons being?
which one would be better?

[aaronng]

sounds pretty good thanks aaron.

Would you prefer Haltech interceptor or Emanage Ult reasons being?
which one would be better?

I wouldn't choose Haltech because it doesn't support vtec point changing. Once you have your mods and change the fuel and ignition maps, the optimum vtec point also changes. So you would want to have that feature. So I would go Emanage ultimate.

[Adrian Euro]

I wouldn't choose Haltech because it doesn't support vtec point changing. Once you have your mods and change the fuel and ignition maps, the optimum vtec point also changes. So you would want to have that feature. So I would go Emanage ultimate.

Can you have the Haltech and then also run the VAFC2 to change vtec cross over and anything else the VAFC2 does. Of this setup pointless.

[aaronng]

Can you have the Haltech and then also run the VAFC2 to change vtec cross over and anything else the VAFC2 does. Of this setup pointless.

I wouldn't dare try running 2 piggybacks together...........

[Adrian Euro]

I wouldn't dare try running 2 piggybacks together...........
Please can you explain why this wouldn't be an option... Sorry i don't really have any idea but i do have the VAFC 2 and was going to put it in untill i was told the euro will re learn or something along those lines..... but the tuner tells me this is not the case!!!

[aaronng]

^^ I just don't like the fact that 2 piggybacks are trying to alter the signal from the ECU. Imagine a situation where something gets lost in translation! I know it will be highly unlikely, but it is just me. I find it difficult to trust piggybacks in the first place, so putting two together is a no-no for me. Try it and give it a go if your tuner is able to guarantee that your engine will be fine

[Crapdaz]

Does anyone know the Emanage Ultimate part no for the Euro?

Thanks,

[mr747]

sorry but who tuned that emanage??
chasers????

[Merlin086]

So what is the deal Merlin - saw you post the above in another thread? Have you thought about asking for your money back, getting your car to how it was - and be done with this?

If they have treated you poorly (and you are one of the first customers who should be treated like a VIP) - how are they going to treat you if there are issues down the track?

Rather than a lawyer - have you thought about the small claims tribunal in your state? Far less cost and still very effective as you are suggesting you have not got what you paid for (and the value is less than $7500).

link (http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/5393CC03-4BB7-42D1-96F6-0FC4C435D84B/0/guide_A5_smallclaims_4web_part1.pdf)

Another question I have is why they even considered the Civic Type R project before they had concluded the Euro project.

I have been trying to have patience but time drags on...:eek:

It is beginning to appear to me that the whole Jtune extreme may have been shelved, I have been living in the hope that very shortly something may happen.

I do not communicate with James privately anymore, as reality often becomes distorted (not my reality) however communicating in a public forum has not yet achieved the desired result of a announcement of availibility of the parts for the xtreme package.

As much as the power is great, I am glad I have kept all my stock parts in case there is a need to remove the prototype headers and exhaust system, although I may consider changing them to another brand if the production headers and exhaust do not eventuate.

The vibration has been "bearable" after a exhaust shop spread the header pipes with a crowbar back in January, however they appear to be drifting back together as the harmonics and vibrations are increasing again with time.

I am prepared to wait a little longer but my patience is wearing very thin!

[aaronng]

Spread the header pipes with a crowbar?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I would have gotten them to reweld the hanger so that the load is reduced and vibrations would be isolated by the rubber more effectively.

What is the worst case scenario? He runs off with your money and you keep the parts (that k20A ecu+Kpro+patch harness will fetch a pretty price).

[Nepolian]

Quick question Merlin? Is the exhaust running a flex pipe and not just the ball join?

Might be beneficial to put in a proper braided flex as this may reduce vibrations throughout the system.

Good luck with the rest?

[Merlin086]

Quick question Merlin? Is the exhaust running a flex pipe and not just the ball join?

Might be beneficial to put in a proper braided flex as this may reduce vibrations throughout the system.

Good luck with the rest?

Has a braided flex already.

The problem was the first set was too short for the headers to clear the crossmember, so the 2 top pipes were flattenedfor clearance.
This caused the 2 top pipes to rub against the 2 bottom pipes ( the vibration occurs just after the bend where the header pipes become horizontal.)
This also causes the header pipes to vibrate on the crossmember at times.

Apparently this problem was rectified with the second batch of prototype headers in January, however I still am waiting for the replacement for mine.

[Chris_F]

what a nightmare. I would hate to be stuck with defective parts that you paid full price for :S

[aaronng]

Ouch, I thought everyone was waiting on just the software.. I guess in reality, they had much more to do before release than they had announced to us.

[Merlin086]

As well as the fact that the jtune headers are only compatible with the jtune exhaust, this means that to change the headers requires a complete exhaust system change.....:thumbdwn:

[aaronng]

As well as the fact that the jtune headers are only compatible with the jtune exhaust, this means that to change the headers requires a complete exhaust system change.....:thumbdwn:
That is typical of racing headers chasing after maximum gains. Same thing with Hytech. It is not a design flaw.

[sodaz]

Yeah Jtune is a bloody joke. I've given up on them a long time ago. Defective products, poor service and support and full of false promises.

[tony1234]

it's a pity.The JTUNE gear sounded so promising.

[yfin]

What is the worst case scenario? He runs off with your money and you keep the parts (that k20A ecu+Kpro+patch harness will fetch a pretty price).

So Merlin you don't have the extreme flash? I thought you were just waiting on the final production hardware but the actual flash was done?

[aaronng]

^^Oh, I assumed that he still had the same prototype setup from before, which used the k20a+kpro, similar setup to the test car I got a ride in.

[Crapdaz]

all the hype and no go....
bummer

prob go with just greddy emanage ult and tune it there..or something....

[Merlin086]

So Merlin you don't have the extreme flash? I thought you were just waiting on the final production hardware but the actual flash was done?

My ECU went to the US apparently, took about 2 months to get it back with the extreme flash.
Still waiting for the final headers and exhaust thru to tips.

And Aaronng, as for race headers, I thought I was buying stealth street headers...


...damn, silly me.

[Chris_F]

^ that's right and that's what the package was marketed as... "for the muture market that doesn't want a loud and obnoxious car blah blah..."

[aaronng]

^ that's right and that's what the package was marketed as... "for the muture market that doesn't want a loud and obnoxious car blah blah..."
Wasn't that just the exhaust system? From the pics of the header, it was screaming race header to me, especially with such big and long primaries!

[Chris_F]

I'm not talking about one specific product but the Jtune branding and the marketing talk that went along with it.

Not everyone knows how to distinguish a race header from a street orientated header from looks alone hehe :P

[aaronng]

I'm just disappointed that they chose to finish the FN2R flash first instead of the Euro just because he owns one.....

[JunYu]

^ yeah, that's kind of selfish.

Emanage Ultimate is next on my list now!

[yfin]

I'm just disappointed that they chose to finish the FN2R flash first instead of the Euro just because he owns one.....

We can't say that for sure - it is just an assumption really. James really should comment in relation to this mess himself - but he is not prepared to show his face here.

Merlin - I noticed that James replied to your question about why it has been 5 months for you waiting (and not the 6 weeks you say you were told) - pasted below.

You would be mad not to take the refund offer (plus you should be released from buying the final kit when it arrives)!!!

It is not worth the grief waiting months and months more (note James is saying it is still an unknown date for final). If it was me - no committment to final production after all this time means contract is null and void due to uncertainty :eek:. And given your relationship with Jtune sounds like it is already sour - best to move on and get your car back to stock :thumbsup:

*************


Mal thanks for your question, like I have previously told you we will supply a replacement kit for your prototype system when we have production stock in Melbourne.

As you are aware we made further changes to our kits to incorporate several changes which has pushed the time that we will have stock back a fair bit. My business partner just spent the last week at our manufactures over seeing the sample production of our latest modifications and changes to our kits, as well as the development of our FN2 products. I’m un-sure of where this “6” week miss communication has come from, it most certainly is much longer than 6 weeks away. I refuse to rush the production of our products and will not bulk manufacture our products until our sample products are 100% perfect. Our manufactures require as previously stated around 3 months to bulk manufacture our products to the quality and quantity we require. As previously stated we offered you a full refund if you wish to turn your car back to stock until the date we have production stock of our Euro Products (un known date), and or the option to modify your existing system in area’s which were causing problem due to the system being prototype, which you choose for us to modify, if this is no longer acceptable for you please phone me to arrange a solution for you. When we have stock ill be the first person to be taking lots of photo’s of our stock and yes your Name will be on one kit. Again I thank you for your time and I hope your enjoying your car, I know the rest of people who have prototype kits absolutely enjoy them after we have modified them.

Kindest Regards James

[johnprocter]

guys whats happening with this? i was considering selling my auto 03 euro and buying a 03 manual euro then buy the extreme package but its not worth the effort if they dont even sell it anymore?

[BusterSonic12]

guys whats happening with this? i was considering selling my auto 03 euro and buying a 03 manual euro then buy the extreme package but its not worth the effort if they dont even sell it anymore?

oh is it not forsale anymore? i bet they made a lost with this euro project, it was looking good and now after all the wait... disappointment.

[johnprocter]

i have no idea whats going on lol

[yfin]

guys whats happening with this? i was considering selling my auto 03 euro and buying a 03 manual euro then buy the extreme package but its not worth the effort if they dont even sell it anymore?

It depends how much time you have. I know the final testing was "very close" in May 2005. It was only 3 years ago so give them more time - you can't rush these things :thumbsup:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=305499&mode=threaded#post305499

[johnprocter]

hahaha well i'll give it till the end of the year and see how it does

[Nepolian]

All due respect to JTUNe but this Euro project seems very much a failure! :thumbdwn:

[mr747]

lol hahahha

[Suntzu]

My mild flash and other mods is going like a champion.

Im not defending them, just saying mines really reliable and extra zippy. Especially with a few mods.

That being said if i had of forked $4000 for a dud id be friggin pissed. They need to sort out the other extreme customers before selling more units or making promises.

[EuroAccord13]

The Boys at AutoRacing Technik have been testing different ECUs for my Euro to find a best fit/BFYB over Euros with different branded modifications..
I would love to try Hondata and compare the difference...

[Chris_F]

^ damn we need more info about that!
what have you tried so far and what were the results?!

[ok2]

My mild flash and other mods is going like a champion.

Im not defending them, just saying mines really reliable and extra zippy. Especially with a few mods.


Suntzu, been interested in the mild flash myself, can you answer a few questions

1) Does it fix "throttle lag" at all
2) Do they "mark up" your ECU in any way
3) What was the turn around
4) Is it correct that you have to use 98 octane fuel
5) How obvious is it that it has been flashed e.g. does the earlier VTEC cut in "stand out"

Thanks in advance.

[Suntzu]

Suntzu, been interested in the mild flash myself, can you answer a few questions

1) Does it fix "throttle lag" at all
2) Do they "mark up" your ECU in any way
3) What was the turn around
4) Is it correct that you have to use 98 octane fuel
5) How obvious is it that it has been flashed e.g. does the earlier VTEC cut in "stand out"

Thanks in advance.

1. A combination of Header/intake then the reflash has almost completely cut out the laggy type feeling.
2. Mark up? You mean physically? They do paint the ecu and recover it in JTUNE logos but mine is stock as i asked it to be this way.
3. Its only a few days but my ECU was fried and it took a little longer for them to replace it. They did and gave me a free Intake Heatshield gasket.
4. Yes, not much point paying to retune for lower octane.
5. No way you can tell. My dealer has NFI. The vtec is smoother and looses the kick transition. Its linear power now.

Hope this helps.

[Lukey13]

Looking at the Jtune website, there doesn't seem to be a flash for 2007 yet. I'm not so keen to go back to the 2005 ECU tune and lose whatever little changes/calibrations that have been made by Honda since then.

[Pumped]

LOL is the flash tune even available yet?

the feedback/news from james is nothing but pathetic

[Ozluder]

Does anyone know what the staus is of these dubious products?

[Merlin086]

Does anyone know what the staus is of these dubious products?


Well, all I know is that I paid for mine 8 months ago and I keep getting the story...
"only a couple of weeks away"

If my prototype headers falls apart at the welds again I will have to replace the whole exhaust system with one from another manufacturer, because of the header's incompatibility with other exhaust systems.

I have been left with a bitter taste in my mouth over the continuing delays with the replacement of my "temporary prototype".

I have considered returning my system back to stock, however I would have to remove my ECU again to send to Jtune in Melbourne, and I would be without a car at all for what might be a considerable time, considering past performance with this system.

Basically I am over a barrel, so I have been hoping for a positive outcome soon, but it is looking more and more like I will be stuck with a 4.5K upgrade that vibrates and falls apart in traffic jams when the headers get very heated! (have saved James the embarrassment of this fact until now!)
I am concerned that every time I travel where I might be stuck in traffic, my car may be getting towed home!!!!

I am embarrassed to admit that I was completely sucked in by what appears to be a total Fxckup!

I will probably get another call from James now telling me it will be only 2 weeks away.........again......lol......:(

[johnprocter]

fxcking hell man that sucks.. i was so keen for this product but it looks like its a sham..

[Pumped]

:( far out, im sorry to hear
I cant believe this guy, worst customer service ever. full stop.

he called me, maybe last november, saying things should be in next week LOL
wow, what an idiot

Hope you get some resolve from this,
anyone whos thinking about going j tune, id steer clear

[BiLL|z0r]

Holy hell d00d. Makes the extra performance not worth it doesn't it. I hope for your's and James' sake it gets sorted ASAP.
Sounds to me it would be worth sending the ECU back, hiring a car for a few days and returning it to stock. By the sound of it if it were me I'd cut my losses and start again. Obviously James is only concerned with the CTR project since he has one and has too much on his plate to put the time into the Euro project.

Wish ya luck. I'm lucky I got to ride in it when it was working and not on the back of a tow truck.

[Ozluder]

Headers fall apart when heated. What a joke. He keeps going on about how he doesn't want to release products until they're perfect. This certainly isn't perfection. Bloody rip-off.


Well, all I know is that I paid for mine 8 months ago and I keep getting the story...
"only a couple of weeks away"

If my prototype headers falls apart at the welds again I will have to replace the whole exhaust system with one from another manufacturer, because of the header's incompatibility with other exhaust systems.

I have been left with a bitter taste in my mouth over the continuing delays with the replacement of my "temporary prototype".

I have considered returning my system back to stock, however I would have to remove my ECU again to send to Jtune in Melbourne, and I would be without a car at all for what might be a considerable time, considering past performance with this system.

Basically I am over a barrel, so I have been hoping for a positive outcome soon, but it is looking more and more like I will be stuck with a 4.5K upgrade that vibrates and falls apart in traffic jams when the headers get very heated! (have saved James the embarrassment of this fact until now!)
I am concerned that every time I travel where I might be stuck in traffic, my car may be getting towed home!!!!

I am embarrassed to admit that I was completely sucked in by what appears to be a total Fxckup!

I will probably get another call from James now telling me it will be only 2 weeks away.........again......lol......:(

[bennjamin]

i dont trust james aka blkcrx as far as i could throw him.
monopoly of hondata in this country...someone PLEASE bring another ecut type in to stop these guys charging whatever they want.

[aaronng]

There are Motec and Euro1. Haltech interceptor doesn't support VTEC point and VTC change but can still work. Ppl are just tightarse and want a full ECU for the price of a VAFCII lol.

[Crapdaz]

go piggyback Greddy emanage.

[Omotesando]

Headers fall apart when heated. What a joke. He keeps going on about how he doesn't want to release products until they're perfect. This certainly isn't perfection. Bloody rip-off.

Yeah but he isnt lying.
The products are crap, hence no releases for what, around 3.5 years now or something?

Some people would have gone into uni and then finished and graduated already in that mean time.

Just can't help thinking that by the time it'll all be released even his baby would have entered highschool or something.

And its only headers and exhausts.

If they had to make an engine it'll probably take them 10 million years and still couldn't get it done.

And sometimes I do wonder 'who' really paid for the FN2. May be some who paid upfront for the extreme package?

[yfin]

I actually think the jtune product and concept is great. How many other Australian companies are developing bolt on performance parts for the Euro? I can't think of any.

The problem here is delivering the product to the market and the lack of accurate corporate messaging about what will be delivered and when.

It is just like any business, if you can't deliver what you say to customers you will deliver - the business is destined to fail. And that is a real shame as jtune had the balls to actually try to develop something.

[2002 TeGgY]

i think that James is a great person/tuner. as yfin said at least he had the balls to develop something for the euro...

[BiLL|z0r]

No, he has the balls to TRY and develop something but so far the extreme package is a failure IMHO. The reflash isn't a huge step forward since other products are out there that help in that regard.
Now he just needs to grow the balls to be honest to his clientelle. Without them his ideas are useless.

[Merlin086]

No, he has the balls to TRY and develop something but so far the extreme package is a failure IMHO. The reflash isn't a huge step forward since other products are out there that help in that regard.
Now he just needs to grow the balls to be honest to his clientelle. Without them his ideas are useless.


Hit the nail on the head there!

No use developing something that doesn't eventuate....I call that a waste of time and money while destroying your own reputation with talking up the product..........:thumbdwn:

[Omotesando]

He might have the BALLS to start off something for the Euro, but thats his problem.

The market is there for him to exploit.

But unfortunately someone doesnt have the BALLS to finish off the product or the BALLS to admit that they stuffed up by spending R&D on it, then decided to get some crappy chinese manufacturer who cant get it right or get it manufactured on time, just because there is higher profit margin from going down that path.

Nor has he the BALLS to finish off the CL9 project before the FN2 one.

As for it being a great concept = well that's what it is at best called. Theres great concepts or bad concepts, but at the end of the day if it hasn't been finished, and people have paid money upfront, it is a dream or concept at most. You dont accept money period, if you havent finished.

[ALN]

Well don't you guys get over it already it's been like this since 2005.
I remembered to have talked with James about euro reflash ecu in March 2006 and he said the products just another few months away tho and the story is still continuing till now even the new euro has been released.

Just get other options guys like piggy backor standalone ecu such as motec, efi, greddy e-manage ultimate or haltech interceptor ,etc you won't get 4-5 kw or more from hondata reflash anyway compare to other options rather than just waiting for something that not even certain eventhough you have paid for it.

[yfin]

Well, all I know is that I paid for mine 8 months ago and I keep getting the story...
"only a couple of weeks away"

If my prototype headers falls apart at the welds again I will have to replace the whole exhaust system with one from another manufacturer, because of the header's incompatibility with other exhaust systems.

I have been left with a bitter taste in my mouth over the continuing delays with the replacement of my "temporary prototype".

I have considered returning my system back to stock, however I would have to remove my ECU again to send to Jtune in Melbourne, and I would be without a car at all for what might be a considerable time, considering past performance with this system.

Basically I am over a barrel, so I have been hoping for a positive outcome soon, but it is looking more and more like I will be stuck with a 4.5K upgrade that vibrates and falls apart in traffic jams when the headers get very heated! (have saved James the embarrassment of this fact until now!)
I am concerned that every time I travel where I might be stuck in traffic, my car may be getting towed home!!!!

I am embarrassed to admit that I was completely sucked in by what appears to be a total Fxckup!

I will probably get another call from James now telling me it will be only 2 weeks away.........again......lol......:(

I feel sorry for you Merlin - if it was me I would go the 'return to stock' option and get your money back. Or even return to base reflash - that way you can get rid of the prototype bolt ons.

[tony1234]

I think most of the gains from the Jtune extreme kit are from the header(and intake to a lesser extent)I have Comptech headers and Icebox and i reckon mine goes almost as well as the Extreme kit Admittedlly i've only driven the Extreme on a Euro for 15 mins.The power delivery on the Extreme is more linear than mine but again i don't think there's much in it power wise.$4700!!!not worth it IMO.:zip:

[Merlin086]

I feel sorry for you Merlin - if it was me I would go the 'return to stock' option and get your money back. Or even return to base reflash - that way you can get rid of the prototype bolt ons.


I've probably said too much already to take the chance of my ECU not "going missing" or some similar catastrophe occurring (it could get fried!) , and then I might not have a car for months....

My first option would be to replace the exhaust with another performance system, and retain the ECU flash as is.
As it is, the exhaust system could be replaced in a few hours...the ECU is a different matter.....

As you see, I am between a rock and a hard place...:(:o:confused:

[yfin]

My first option would be to replace the exhaust with another performance system, and retain the ECU flash as is.
As it is, the exhaust system could be replaced in a few hours...the ECU is a different matter.....

Is that really a good option though- I thought Jtune says that the extreme flash must only be used with the jtune bolt on parts otherwise you take the risk that you do damage to the engine.

[johnprocter]

take legal action against jtune imo this is bullshit service and a bullshit product which you have whipped out 5grand for and what have you got in return? dodgey product and a load of shit costumer service

[Omotesando]

Is that really a good option though- I thought Jtune says that the extreme flash must only be used with the jtune bolt on parts otherwise you take the risk that you do damage to the engine.

Yeah, you should't keep the flash but use different parts.

Having said that, you could give it a try. Make sure you dyno it first and see if there's any problems with the ECU tuning vs newly installed parts.

[Crapdaz]

he'll still be out of pocket.

but if your hating it so much i reckon forking out more money on more reliable parts is better than something that always breaks down.

[EUR003act]

Is that really a good option though- I thought Jtune says that the extreme flash must only be used with the jtune bolt on parts otherwise you take the risk that you do damage to the engine.

they say that so u buy their stuff... i mean, you may not make as much power without their products on their flash... but it wont "blow up" or damage the engine... its just a jtune... as long as the engine doesnt run too lean she'll be right...

[Type R Positive]

they say that so u buy their stuff... i mean, you may not make as much power without their products on their flash... but it wont "blow up" or damage the engine... its just a jtune... as long as the engine doesnt run too lean she'll be right...
Yeah, what makes JTUNE parts so different to others?
(Besides quality! :p)

[tony1234]

Like i said before i reckon most of the gains from the Jtune are from the header.I've got a Comptech header and the difference is quite noticeable especially in the low to mid range compared to stock.If you installed a decent header like a Toda i'm assuming the gains would be more noticeable.

[johnprocter]

do you have any hissing issues with the comptech header? and can u pm me how much and where u bought it from? thanks mate

[tony1234]

do you have any hissing issues with the comptech header? and can u pm me how much and where u bought it from? thanks mate
No i don't.I got it 2nd. hand(9 mths.old) from one of the guys here $500.You can get them here for approx.$760 to your door.http://www.heeltoeauto.com/product.php?productid=45259&cat=2161&page=1

[snYpz]

Opinion required

Digging up this thread. If new thread suggested, mods please move ;)

Anyways, I am thinking about getting rbc as well as possibly jtune mild flash.
I have an auto euro with comptech icebox, topspeed headers and metal cat. The car is for daily driving. I am aiming for more response down low and extracting more response at lower rpms.

Thus, would you guys recommened going for rbc with mild flash which would be approx. $1500 as a rough estimate.
Do you think rbc and flash would make a considerable improvement to the car atm? =)

[Suntzu]

I have EXACTLY the same setup except mine a manual. I did get the Jtune flash i Jan 08 and RBC 9 months later. So ive been through all the options there.

I dunno what the flash is like in an auto but its decent for a manual. Id get it before the RBC as it seems to kick in about 5000rpm which isnt great for an auto I suppose. It improves flexibility and sharpens the throttle response a lot. But doesn't give massive power increases. It improved my fuel economy a bot also. The 5000rpm vtec is handy in 2nd gear in fast traffic.

That being said im hearing that maybe a haltech or an aftermarket ecu system might be a better option so long as it doesnt unlearn the changes. Esp if you make more changes in the future to the engine.

If it were me? Id trade my auto on a 07/08/09 manual as that will give you far a far greater performance improvement for resonable cost.

[snYpz]

^ Thanks Suntzu. Our cars have almost identical mods! My car is also red........ruby red :p

Too attached to the car now to trade. For a sports sedan, i'd want to stick with the auto. Also with Sydney traffic sometimes, esp on Parra rd in the afternoon, auto would suit me best.

I thought the haltech didnt work on our k24? i could be wrong. Im just after sth reliable and responsive for daily purposes.
I know jtune extreme has been problematic but the mild flash appears ok.

I guess i should wait for ur verdict on the rbc suntzu :cool:

The last month i have got headers, cat, pulleys, lip kit and now possibly rbc and flash. I just want to get everything done and over with. Only thing will be doing are the bolt ons. I'll be over to adelaide for work commitments after the new year so would want the car to be complete by then :thumbsup:

[yfin]

Opinion required

Anyways, I am thinking about getting rbc as well as possibly jtune mild flash.


If after reading this thread you still want the Jtune mild flash - you are braver than most! Have they delivered what they have said they will deliver? Think about that... Will they be there for you if you have any problems with the flash? If you can be confident about these things then go for it....

You did ask for an opinion :)