NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging

[thewizzrd]

To all the doubters,
I did have the upgrade done at my dealership last Friday. They are doing some field tests with it and I put my hand up. They had engineers in from Japan while I was there, testing out the upgrade on my car. I have been driving it for a week now and as I said before the pinging has been reduced but it is still noticeable but not as much. I did mention to them on Tuesday (after driving the car fro a few days) that I felt the car had lost a bit of it's grunt. They were surprised by that comment and mentioned that on another car they had positive results and it had improved performance.
They will get back to me next week with more news.

[SPQR]

^^ Umble pie anyone?

[Euro08Jaz]

Sounds like they are detuning the car...

[Sludge]

Sounds like they are detuning the car...

Yep, my guy told me he thought they would retard the ignition = less power and fuel economy :(

[aaronng]

unfortunately thewizzard is fulla shyte....
so to thewizzard pull your head in and get real man.
These posts are for educated people who want to share
useful information not Bull Shit

Don't be so quick to judge people. That letter you got seems to be a standard canned response to this pinging issue that Honda Australia gives out to anyone asking about it.

[Joystick]

Sounds like they are detuning the car...

I still wonder if they can do this without the risk of people claiming refunds...If you purchased a Ferrari and it got detuned would you demand you money back if the performance was lost?

[unity]

I still wonder if they can do this without the risk of people claiming refunds...If you purchased a Ferrari and it got detuned would you demand you money back if the performance was lost?

That would depend on what you want. Do you want a car that doesn't ping or not?

[MiSloVic]

That would depend on what you want. Do you want a car that doesn't ping or not?

umm... pinging (or in honda's term post-combustion ignition), is considered a defect... I wont buy something NEW from a reputable brand and expect defects in it.

it would be a different story, if I had bought some bargain dodgy MiC xx-con-xx brands.

[bk212]

That would depend on what you want. Do you want a car that doesn't ping or not?

It shouldn't be an either/or proposition. What's wrong with expecting a new car to perform to its specifications without pinging?

[unity]

It shouldn't be an either/or proposition. What's wrong with expecting a new car to perform to its specifications without pinging?

I agree with you, but current owner's unfortunately don't have that luxury. They will either have to put up with the pinging or get the software update which may change the characteristics of the car. Neither option is acceptable. There needs to be better laws to protect consumers in this situation.

[bk212]

I agree with you, but current owner's unfortunately don't have that luxury. They will either have to put up with the pinging or get the software update which may change the characteristics of the car. Neither option is acceptable. There needs to be better laws to protect consumers in this situation.

Yeah you're probably right. It may be that there is some remedy under the Trade Practices Act, but it's just too hard for an individual consumer to go down that path. Maybe we should get one of the current affairs programs onto the case!

Anyway I think I would rather have less performance than put up with this noise - it's terrible.

[Joystick]

The car has already gained 200 odd kilos over the previous model, I'd hate to have even less power and torque that what the car currently has. :(

[unity]

Honda Australia should be offering some sort of goodwill measure as compensation. I think people concerned should push for a free extended 2 year warranty to cover for possible problems down the track.

[denot]

Honda Australia should be offering some sort of goodwill measure as compensation. I think people concerned should push for a free extended 2 year warranty to cover for possible problems down the track.

that or money back guarantee

[8wg8]

Hi Guys, I just bought a Euro L(03/09) but before i took the car i talked to the manager of honda north shore about the pinging noise and he said the software will be available by mid march(he showing the letter from nz head office), so anyone that have this problem could go back to your dealer and get this problem done but again this pinging noise not happened to anyone.hope this could help

[asimo]

To all the doubters,
I did have the upgrade done at my dealership last Friday. They are doing some field tests with it and I put my hand up. They had engineers in from Japan while I was there, testing out the upgrade on my car. I have been driving it for a week now and as I said before the pinging has been reduced but it is still noticeable but not as much. I did mention to them on Tuesday (after driving the car fro a few days) that I felt the car had lost a bit of it's grunt. They were surprised by that comment and mentioned that on another car they had positive results and it had improved performance.
They will get back to me next week with more news.

Guys,

Be carefull about this fix ! It might decrease you engine power output !

My Euro has aprox 9000 km and, from the beginning, I have experienced low power during acceleration, especially uphill; and very rarely, pinging at low speeds, when engine is cold.

Now, before you say the two have nothing in common, let's look at the first simptom: low power during acceleration.
In the US, Honda have officially acknowledged the problem.
(http://www.allworldauto.com/tsbs/NHTSA_2008_honda_accord_technical_service_bulletin _280587.html)
The explanation says:
"VEHICLES MAY EXPERIENCE AN INTERMITTENT LACK OF POWER DUE TO INTERFERENCE OR NOISE ON THE KNOCK SENSOR SIGNAL CIRCUIT"
From service bulletin SB 07-057:
"Interference or noise on the knock sensor circuit can cause the PCM to retartd the ignition, causing a decrease in engine power, usually during acceleration"

The fix for this was a software upgrade for the PGM-FI.

Now, my main problem is low power, so I guess this problem applies to my car.

But Honda Oz only have complains about knocking/pinging (the good people on this thread).

So in other words, if the knock sensor suffers from noise or interference,
that the software can't eliminate, it will erroneously cause low power, even if the engine is not pinging.

But if pinging is the main complaint ( and it is definately a problem for a lot of people) Honda might be tempted to 'mask' it by making the knock sensor more sensitive, or giving it more 'weight' in the software.


So the big question is : are they making the pinging disappear, or are they
giving more 'weight' to the knock sensor's input, resulting in deteriorating engine performance, from noise and interference on the circuit ?!

Honda should be made accountable for the results of their fix.

[asimo]

Car of the year.... ping !


http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/wheels/site/articleIDs/C51E6019C56ABDD6CA2575770015C28C

[Joystick]

If Honda can't correct the pinging issue without any loss of power I'll be asking for my money back.

Just gotta sit tight and see what happens. :/

[VIDSEURO]

Don't be so quick to judge people. That letter you got seems to be a standard canned response to this pinging issue that Honda Australia gives out to anyone asking about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems everyone ever so touchy about this matter.
So im sorry to have offended anyone or judged you.
Can the wizzard confirm what dealership he purchased his car from?

I purchased mine from Capital Honda in Phillip.
If the wizzard is legit then good on him, sorry wizzard.

All the best chaps...:o

[fire88]

hi ,guys ,I'm new here, bought the car 2 months ago ,same probs as everyone.

have been contacting the dealer and the Honda Australia regarding the knocking noise

and low power at pinging time without any happy answer from the Honda Australia, the

manager from Honda said it's normal sound!!!then said they've working on it .I asked if

it's normal why you working on the solution???because you guys complaint it!!!

Off course I'm not happy with .SO I've called VCA and guide one of officers to this thread

and they will be monitoring this issue fro now.because it's not single issue any more.

I've been told to lodge a formal complaint to Honda which I suggest all of us to do it

asap!!!

we are not fools!!!

[eur001]

[QUOTE=Joystick;2185187]If Honda can't correct the pinging issue without any loss of power I'll be asking for my money back.

how possible is this?!

[Joystick]

Probably got bugger all chance but I doubt Honda would reduce power to eleminate the ping. Just seems too risky....

just saw a new nados ad while typing this. All I can say is enjoy! :D

[buddah51au]

I am not effected by this problem, but if I was I would be very tempted to put the car on a Dyno before & after whatever the fix might be. 3 runs each time on the same Dyno. You would then havea written graph to backup any claims of loss of power instead of just a seat of the pants feeling which in reality means nothing.

[thewizzrd]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems everyone ever so touchy about this matter.
So im sorry to have offended anyone or judged you.
Can the wizzard confirm what dealership he purchased his car from?

I purchased mine from Capital Honda in Phillip.
If the wizzard is legit then good on him, sorry wizzard.

All the best chaps...:o

Car was purchased from Astoria Honda back in Nov 08

[HVF00T]

FYI
The pinging sound has started in my car after nearly two months of perect running. It is a pinging sound but I can't confirm if it's actually from the engine. It's only audible between 2000 and 3000 RPM. It has only started in the last week. I have only used Vortex 98 since day one. I tried Nulon octane boost last Thursday and if anything the pinging is now slightly worse. The octane boost certainly doesn't help at all.

I have my car booked in for a dyno run tomorrow. My car is booked in for 1000km service next Monday at one of the Honda dealers so I will find out if the fix is applied to my car. If so I will have another dyno run to see if there is any performance change.

Let me know if there is any interest in the results otherwise I won't bother posting.

[VIDSEURO]

FYI
The pinging sound has started in my car after nearly two months of perect running. It is a pinging sound but I can't confirm if it's actually from the engine. It's only audible between 2000 and 3000 RPM. It has only started in the last week. I have only used Vortex 98 since day one. I tried Nulon octane boost last Thursday and if anything the pinging is now slightly worse. The octane boost certainly doesn't help at all.

I have my car booked in for a dyno run tomorrow. My car is booked in for 1000km service next Monday at one of the Honda dealers so I will find out if the fix is applied to my car. If so I will have another dyno run to see if there is any performance change.

Let me know if there is any interest in the results otherwise I won't bother posting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey buddy

Can i encourage you to lodge a formal complaint using your VIN through
the Honda Web site.

Then give a letter of complaint to the dealer manager.

Im unsure if dyno will prove anything due to the fact that there is awesome noise coming from the rollers of the dyno. The ping noise is faint but audible
for the person who drives the car regularly.
Bloody shame coz the euro gets better with every 1,000 km's.

Anyhow best of luck to everyone who has a euro with this issue.
Hopefull the software update will address the problem.
If not Honda are in deep sh**....

[denot]

still... can you post the dyno result? want to know what the power figure ATW for the CU2

[HVF00T]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey buddy

Can i encourage you to lodge a formal complaint using your VIN through
the Honda Web site.

Then give a letter of complaint to the dealer manager.

Im unsure if dyno will prove anything due to the fact that there is awesome noise coming from the rollers of the dyno. The ping noise is faint but audible
for the person who drives the car regularly.

Yep, will do.. The dyno is only for my own curiosity at actual Euro power figures, not for diagnosis. It will also become a baseline to compare against when the Honda fix is applied (or any mods I want to make later on :D )

[Type R Positive]

still... can you post the dyno result? want to know what the power figure ATW for the CU2
x2! :)

[Joystick]

Yep, keen to know the dyno results as well.

Have exactly the same problem, pining noise from 2-3k but I can hear it from almost any rev range now that my ears are attuned to it. :(

[H.T]

Not sure if any manual vehicle owners are having this problem, but I have noticed it in our manual Accord Euro, the car has about 1500km's on it.

Any other manual owners notice it?

[HVF00T]

Dyno result for CU2 Auto running on Vortex98 and it was done today not 14/03.

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/512/CU2Dyno.jpg

[denot]

Dyno result for CU2 Auto running on Vortex98 and it was done today not 14/03.

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/512/CU2Dyno.jpg

waks! 103.8!!!! :( Hmmm cant you hit 7000 rpm as what Honda states (148Kw@7000rpm)?

note: I know the atw will be less than the power figures from honda, but 45Kw less is unexpected... the FD2 is only 25Kw less than the Honda figures

[shakkas]

the 145kw is quoted from the engine.

A dyno measures the output from the wheels, so whenever a manufacture quotes a power from the engine, so its 100kw atw ( i think) something like that

[denot]

the 145kw is quoted from the engine.

A dyno measures the output from the wheels, so whenever a manufacture quotes a power from the engine, so its 100kw atw ( i think) something like that

like i sed, i just not expecting the diff is more than 30%... the civic is only 20%-ish different

[Crapdaz]

the CL9 is around that with around 35kw loss through the transmission...
so not surprised that the cu2 would be round the same too.

[ok2]

How much of difference does an auto trans make to power ATW? Would expect more loss versus a manual.

[buddah51au]

How much of difference does an auto trans make to power ATW? Would expect more loss versus a manual.


that figure can vary so much between different auto transmissions, but if you used a ball park figure of 30 to 35% loss you would be fairly close to the mark

[Joystick]

Thanks for the results HVFOOT.

What's the cost for a dyno run these days? Thinking about putting my CU2 on the rollers.

[buddah51au]

I would suggest around 2 hours labour for set up & 3 runs to get an average, so a ball park figure of $150 to $180 would be my guess.

Don't forget that no 2 Dyno's will read the same & ambient temperature will have a small effect.

[HVF00T]

Thanks for the results HVFOOT.

What's the cost for a dyno run these days? Thinking about putting my CU2 on the rollers.

$99 for three runs. I didn't shop around due to time constraints. You could probably get someone to do it for less.

[tony1234]

If you're in Sydney Adrian from Toda will do 3 runs and printout for $60.00 i think.Just confirm cost with him.

[aaronng]

Or go for dyno days. Dyno days usually cost about $50 for 3 runs, plus you get to compare with other cars on the day.

[denot]

Or go for dyno days. Dyno days usually cost about $50 for 3 runs, plus you get to compare with other cars on the day.

with 100kw result on stock cars? i think it will be embarrasing :o

[aaronng]

with 100kw result on stock cars? i think it will be embarrasing :o

Wait til you see fully sick Civics pulling 80-90kW.

[SPQR]

I thought the jargon was ful-e-sik? Hmm. Showing my age!

[HVF00T]

I just had the 1000km service done. The ping upgrade is not yet officially released by Honda. The service guy also confirmed that octane levels will not make a difference for this issue. Also, Honda factory pays for the 1000km service so nobody should be getting charged for it. I think it was mentioned in other threads that people were being charged for the 1000km service.

Quote from invoice:
"Check for engine pinging:
Roadtested vehicle, unable to reproduce pinging at time of test. Honda Japan is developing a software upgrade to cure pinging concerns. Client will be notified when available."

[SPQR]

It sounds like dealer service depts are being instructed to look for affected cars.

[VIDSEURO]

It sounds like dealer service depts are being instructed to look for affected cars.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe they are now due to the fact that numerous Euro owners
manual or auto are affected by the mettalic pinging noise.
When i made the appointment with the manager at Capital Honda
in Canberra he had no idea of this problem.

I think its important for affected owners to :
1. Go to the Honda web site use their VIN and submit an email of complaint.
2. Give a letter of complaint to their dealer, best to go to the top.

I must say once again it truly detracts from the car when you are accelarating
and you hear the rattle... It very dissapointing.
Lets face it the Euro has a very high compression engine, and the car is already on the verge of pinging..
Im sure we are all looking forward to the correction that Honda will issue
to affected owners.

:o

Feel free to rev the Vtec ....... maybe if someone can blow a motor
Honda may give a replacement

[yfin]

Lets face it the Euro has a very high compression engine, and the car is already on the verge of pinging..


Why do you say that? It is high compression but it runs on premium. The CL9 never had a pinging issue and the air fuel ratio is typically very rich. Yes they increased the compression ratio on the CU2 slightly - but it is still a lower compresion than say a s2000 (and does that ping?).

[VIDSEURO]

Why do you say that? It is high compression but it runs on premium. The CL9 never had a pinging issue and the air fuel ratio is typically very rich. Yes they increased the compression ratio on the CU2 slightly - but it is still a lower compresion than say a s2000 (and does that ping?).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Err Coz i felt like it...its a free country

So what if the CL9 never had pinging,
who cares about the air fuel ratio, not me....
And what has the s2000 has to do with it.. <crap all> its a different car.
Dude im not sure of what you are saying but keep up the good work.
I think if we can keep relevant that will help our cause.
Have a beer on me....;)

[buddah51au]

My money still says it is not a pinging problem as ;-

1. not all vehicles are effected
2. adding octane booster has no effect
3. using 95 or 98 RON fuel makes no difference.
4. all engines are the same, with same sensors & settings

Remember that the CU2 has a completely different cyl head design to the CL9, so they can't be compared.

[buddah51au]

with 100kw result on stock cars? i think it will be embarrasing :o

Denot, how can you justify that comment? Please name another mid size 4 cyl car in Australia that has more power than a Euro. Lets run through the list:-
Mazda 6
Camry
Mondeo
sonata
Epica
BMW 3 series 4 cyl

those 6 off the top of my head, so if the Euro is embarrasing what would you say about those cars?

[denot]

Denot, how can you justify that comment? Please name another mid size 4 cyl car in Australia that has more power than a Euro. Lets run through the list:-
Mazda 6
Camry
Mondeo
sonata
Epica
BMW 3 series 4 cyl

those 6 off the top of my head, so if the Euro is embarrasing what would you say about those cars?

no buddah... I just, somehow, have this thought that dyno day is for mod cars and all... so what I said is not that I embarrased on the CU2 compared to the other cars you've mention above, but to other cars that modded, turboed, etc that attend the dyno day. Like I sed, I just have this concept of "dyno day" is where moded car test their power...

Appologies for the wrong perception... :(

[yfin]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Err Coz i felt like it...its a free country

So what if the CL9 never had pinging,
who cares about the air fuel ratio, not me....
And what has the s2000 has to do with it.. <crap all> its a different car.
Dude im not sure of what you are saying but keep up the good work.
I think if we can keep relevant that will help our cause.
Have a beer on me....;)

As you didn't get it - I will explain it for you slowly. You made a wild comment "the car is already on the verge of pinging" because of high compression. There are lots of cars that are high compression. The CL9 is a related engine - that didn't ping. The s2000 has higher compression that your car - and that doesn't ping.

So whilst I sympathise with your issue - don't spread fear by saying that the car is on the verge of pinging based on its compression ratio. The ratio is nothing unusual and nothing new and is similar to many modern vehicles.

[VIDSEURO]

As you didn't get it - I will explain it for you slowly. You made a wild comment "the car is already on the verge of pinging" because of high compression. There are lots of cars that are high compression. The CL9 is a related engine - that didn't ping. The s2000 has higher compression that your car - and that doesn't ping.

So whilst I sympathise with your issue - don't spread fear by saying that the car is on the verge of pinging based on its compression ratio. The ratio is nothing unusual and nothing new and is similar to many modern vehicles.

Dude
Be affraid very affraid ..... Lol
Actually buddy that comment about the Euro being on the verge
of pinging is from Ken Sheppard from Honda Australia.
If thats fear than shyte i better hide....
No worries mate .... Did you have that beer, bet you drink light...
Anyhow...

[yfin]

Yes I am afraid... This Ken Sheppard is the same customer service consultant who sent you (or someone else here) an email saying the standard Honda message - ie it not pre-ignition (ie pinging) but post-combustion noise? Honda staff need to make up their mind - is this pre-ignition or post combustion noise?

[Joystick]

Spoke to the guys at Honda yesterday and was shown a letter regarding the pinging and where they're at, lets just say it contained nothing we don't already know and I doubt we'll see a fix this month.

Also, I was told that if you use any other oil apart from mineral in the CU2, you will void your warranty. The guy was pro sythetic but said he's been told that if you use non-mineral oil Honda won't honor the warranty. :(

Gotta get my hood shake fix next service, does anyone else notice a lot of bounce from their bonnet?

[SPQR]

Yes I am afraid... This Ken Sheppard is the same customer service consultant who sent you (or someone else here) an email saying the standard Honda message - ie it not pre-ignition (ie pinging) but post-combustion noise? Honda staff need to make up their mind - is this pre-ignition or post combustion noise?

Exalted and otherwise enlighted one, "pinging" or "engine-knocking" is a post combustion noise.

Please read the article for which I had previously posted a useful link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

From the Wiki article:
Knocking (also called knock, detonation or spark knock, pinking in UK English or pinging in US English) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events......

Clearly Honda Australia are claiming that this post combustion noise is in the inconsequential range instead of near-Armageddon. So why won't they warrant engines past the first owner?

[yfin]

"pinging" or "engine-knocking" is a post combustion noise.

I found the reference - Honda here is saying post combustion is not pinging. Yet other Honda people are saying it is? Honda needs to sort out its messaging as it increasingly sounds like bulltish and damage control.

***

Dear xxxx, we appreciate that you are concerned about the presence of an engine operational sound as it detracts from your overall enjoyment of the vehicle and we wish to again reassure you that this condition will have no impact on performance or engine reliability. We have been working closely with the technical division of Honda Corporation in Japan and following extensive investigations we can confirm that the condition you are experiencing is not that of “pinging” which is known within the industry as “pre-ignition”. The condition that you are experiencing is a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”. As this condition takes place after the programmed ignition and with the piston on its downward stroke, there is no detrimental force or impact within the engine in your vehicle. Therefore your engine has not sustained any damage and we are happy to offer you a guarantee on the engine while you are the owner of this vehicle as a way of reassuring you of our confidence that no wear or damage is occurring to the engine or associated components.

We trust this advice from the manufacturer clarifies the matter.

Regards
Joe Gelsi
Customer Relations Manager
Honda Australia Pty Ltd

[yfin]

Also, I was told that if you use any other oil apart from mineral in the CU2, you will void your warranty. The guy was pro sythetic but said he's been told that if you use non-mineral oil Honda won't honor the warranty. :(


Joystick - what does the specs in the manual say re type of oil? If you go with that and it says nothing about the use of synthetic oil - I can't see how Honda could validly void warranty by the use of synthetic oil. Spreading a messaging by word of mouth is not the best way to advise owners. I also noticed that in Asia Honda sell its own full syn oil called Ultra Gold. One can only imagine that if it was sold here that Honda Australia would recommend it for all its vehicles in Australia due to its premium price tag. Yes I am a cynic!

http://nm-parts.kz/images/japanoil/honda/honda-ultra-gold-sm-5w40.jpg

[tony1234]

Also, I was told that if you use any other oil apart from mineral in the CU2, you will void your warranty. The guy was pro sythetic but said he's been told that if you use non-mineral oil Honda won't honor the warranty. :(

Gotta get my hood shake fix next service, does anyone else notice a lot of bounce from their bonnet?
That's crap re:using synthetic oil voiding your warranty.As yfin said where in the manual does it state that?My bonnet vibrated too.It's an easy fix.Just tell them when you book it in for service and they'll fix it.

[billcheng32]

update for ping issuse;
i have just done my first service today. in the front, i told one consultant that when it has 'zzzz' noise (not big, not annoying) when i accelerate, even smoothly accerate. after that, the consultant told me that my car was tested, and identified that my car has 'pinging' problem, and they will send my details to australia honda, once the finalised software is released, they will contact me asap.
what a fk:(:eek:, i never hear any ping noise from my as some guys mentioned previousely, but the 'professional' people tell me exactly, that i have. also, i ask whether the updated software will reduce the power. the man said, definitely not. ok, i try to trust him, as they are 'professional'.

[Zapped]

I bought a brand new Accord Euro Luxury Navigation in late january this year. I have clocked about 2,300Km with no problems. However, about 10 days ago for the first time I noticed a strange popping noise coming from the back of the car. The noise did not re-occur until last night when I heard the same noise again.

I am sure that the noise came from the muffler tube on the left. It sounded like a "pop" inside a metallic tube.

Does this sound to any of you, like the pinging noise that everybody is talking about? (Please say no)

[HVF00T]

Also, I was told that if you use any other oil apart from mineral in the CU2, you will void your warranty. The guy was pro sythetic but said he's been told that if you use non-mineral oil Honda won't honor the warranty. :(



Joystick - what does the specs in the manual say re type of oil? If you go with that and it says nothing about the use of synthetic oil - I can't see how Honda could validly void warranty by the use of synthetic oil.

Take a look at pages 393 and 394 in the Owners Manual. As long as it is API Service SL grade or higher and you use the correct viscosity based on the chart on page 393, you should have no issue with Honda in using synthetic or mineral oil.

[SPQR]

I found the reference - Honda here is saying post combustion is not pinging. Yet other Honda people are saying it is? Honda needs to sort out its messaging as it increasingly sounds like bulltish and damage control.

***
Dear xxxx, ....... we can confirm that the condition you are experiencing is not that of “pinging” which is known within the industry as “pre-ignition”. The condition that you are experiencing is a combustion sound taking place after the programmed ignition, namely a “post combustion noise”.......

Yeah, I saw that earlier and it is the reason why I have posted the links to the Wiki page a number of times. Honda Australia is run by clerks and they don't know that pinging is a post combustion noise and that pinging is not pre-ignition. They've got everything arse-about (can we Type aRse?)

[Joystick]

So I guess the crap about oil is to encourage people to stick with the Honda oil instead of bringing in your own stuff. Thanks for the help guys.

[unity]

So I guess the crap about oil is to encourage people to stick with the Honda oil instead of bringing in your own stuff. Thanks for the help guys.

Maybe, but keep in mind that there are Honda dealers out there that don't even use FEO themselves. The dealer that I brought my car from uses Magnatec and they even have the magnatec logo printed on all their paper work.

[tony1234]

Maybe, but keep in mind that there are Honda dealers out there that don't even use FEO themselves. The dealer that I brought my car from uses Magnatec and they even have the magnatec logo printed on all their paper work.
I know of 3 Honda service depts.in Sydney that use Magnatec.

[unity]

I know of 3 Honda service depts.in Sydney that use Magnatec.

So what's the message they are trying to send out there? Is FEO an inferior product or does it just come down to profits at the end of the day. I wonder how many other non geniune Honda fluids are being used in our cars?

[yfin]

So what's the message they are trying to send out there? Is FEO an inferior product or does it just come down to profits at the end of the day. I wonder how many other non geniune Honda fluids are being used in our cars?

FEO is not an inferior product - my recollection is it is made by Castrol.

I don't see what the problem is if a dealer uses Magnatec. If it meets Honda specifications then why not.

If you don't want to use that oil bring your own - I did that for every service (with synthetic oil from 10k). Never had an issue with the dealer using my oil). Dealers usually charge $35 for mineral oil anyway so for a little more $$ you can bring your own synthetic.

[unity]

FEO is not an inferior product - my recollection is it is made by Castrol.

I don't see what the problem is if a dealer uses Magnatec. If it meets Honda specifications then why not.

If you don't want to use that oil bring your own - I did that for every service (with synthetic oil from 10k). Never had an issue with the dealer using my oil). Dealers usually charge $35 for mineral oil anyway so for a little more $$ you can bring your own synthetic.

It's just an image thing. You would expect a Honda dealer to use and support anything with the Honda name on it. It would be like going into McDonalds and getting Pepsi instead of Coca Cola.

[SPQR]

It's just an image thing. You would expect a Honda dealer to use and support anything with the Honda name on it. It would be like going into McDonalds and getting Pepsi instead of Coca Cola.

Or have gone into Pizza Hut and got a Coke instead of a Pepsi when Pepsico owned Pizza Hut.

[tony1234]

FEO is not an inferior product - my recollection is it is made by Castrol.

I don't see what the problem is if a dealer uses Magnatec. If it meets Honda specifications then why not.

If you don't want to use that oil bring your own - I did that for every service (with synthetic oil from 10k). Never had an issue with the dealer using my oil). Dealers usually charge $35 for mineral oil anyway so for a little more $$ you can bring your own synthetic.
1.FEO is a good oil however i was told by a head Honda tech that it can start to breakdown after 7-8K if the car tended to be driven on the hard side.
2.I think Magnatec is not much better than FEO as far as starting to breakdown before 10K.Both of these oils would be more than adequate if they were changed at 5K intervals.
3.That's the best option.Bring your own oil.That's what i do.

[aaronng]

Magnatec also breaks down at 6500-7000km until gentle street driving.

Dealers use Magnatec because it is cheaper by the drum. Also, if they come across other cars that need 10w-40 oil, they can use that since Honda engines can take both 10w-30 and 10w-40.

[SPQR]

And the big news of 2008 was the new Porsche 911's service intervals having to be reduced from 30,000km to 15,000km because of Australia's still high sulphur content in Petrol.......

https://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/porsche_911_2008_first_drive.htm

"Porsche 911s are very solid, reliable and durable, albeit with a tendency to develop a few squeaks and rattles in the cabin as a consequence of their hard suspension.

Service intervals on the new model have been reduced from 30,000 to 15,000km, because, according to Porsche, of the contaminating effects of Australia's high sulphur unleaded - even the 98 octane premium recommended for the 911. In Europe, where unleaded has only 10ppm of sulphur, the 30,000 km interval remains."

I wonder what oil Porsche uses?

[aaronng]

And the big news of 2008 was the new Porsche 911's service intervals having to be reduced from 30,000km to 15,000km because of Australia's still high sulphur content in Petrol.......

https://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/porsche_911_2008_first_drive.htm

"Porsche 911s are very solid, reliable and durable, albeit with a tendency to develop a few squeaks and rattles in the cabin as a consequence of their hard suspension.

Service intervals on the new model have been reduced from 30,000 to 15,000km, because, according to Porsche, of the contaminating effects of Australia's high sulphur unleaded - even the 98 octane premium recommended for the 911. In Europe, where unleaded has only 10ppm of sulphur, the 30,000 km interval remains."

I wonder what oil Porsche uses?
30,000km interval is too long. If a BMW 330 can develop problems with a 1 year, 30000km interval, the 911 will be worse off since its engine is more highly tuned.

[tony1234]

30,000km interval is too long. If a BMW 330 can develop problems with a 1 year, 30000km interval, the 911 will be worse off since its engine is more highly tuned.
There is NO WAY i'd leave engine oil in for 30K.

[tony1234]

I wonder what oil Porsche uses?
Mobil 1.My brother has one.

[SPQR]

Mobil 1.My brother has one.

I used to use Mobil 1 in my WRX.

[EuroMG]

I took delivery of a Luxury Auto on 19/12/08 and have experienced the annoying Pinging sound since 200kms. Have now done 7,000kms and the problem just keeps getting worse. Dealer acknowledged noise at first service early January, and said a fix would be available later that month. 3 months later and I've received absolutely no communication/update from dealer or Honda Australia. Have posted a strongly worded complaint via Honda website tonight.

Love everything else about the car, just sick of the crappy noise!! Sounds like a 15 year old Magna :mad:

[k3nnis]

Hi Guys,

I am thinking to get an Auto CU Luxury accord euro but now reading this issue, got me thinking. So if I was to purchase one now it will have this problem? Have they rectified it or have a solution for it?

My other alternative was a Mazda 6 Luxury Sports Hatch.....

Thanks,
Kenn.

[Joystick]

Hi Guys,

I am thinking to get an Auto CU Luxury accord euro but now reading this issue, got me thinking. So if I was to purchase one now it will have this problem? Have they rectified it or have a solution for it?

My other alternative was a Mazda 6 Luxury Sports Hatch.....

Thanks,
Kenn.

The problem has not been recitifed as yet, so if you purchased a auto Euro, it's highly likely you'll have the pinging issue. I would have purchased another car if I was fully aware of the pinging issue.

Hopefully Honda have a fix very very soon because it's pissing me off! :(

[buddah51au]

Hi Guys,

I am thinking to get an Auto CU Luxury accord euro but now reading this issue, got me thinking. So if I was to purchase one now it will have this problem? Have they rectified it or have a solution for it?

My other alternative was a Mazda 6 Luxury Sports Hatch.....

Thanks,
Kenn.

Not all Euro's with auto transmissions are effected. I have had mine since December & have no such problem after 7,000km, 2 other owners of 08 cu2 Euro Automatics that I personally know have not experienced the problem either.

As good as the mazda 6 is I personally wouldn't consider 1 in front of a Euro.

[k3nnis]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. I would love to get the euro lux auto but I justify in purchasing one, that in the back of my mind that I am into a lucky dip. There will be a chance that I might get one with the problem???

Thanks.

[tony1234]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. I would love to get the euro lux auto but I justify in purchasing one, that in the back of my mind that I am into a lucky dip. There will be a chance that I might get one with the problem???

Thanks.
Wait a bit if you can.it should be sorted out in a few months.

[SteveH]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. I would love to get the euro lux auto but I justify in purchasing one, that in the back of my mind that I am into a lucky dip. There will be a chance that I might get one with the problem???

Thanks.

K3nnis, I was in the same boat as you, tossing up between the Mazda and the Honda. I felt that the presentation of the Euro, particularly the interior, was miles ahead of he Mazda, plus you got more standard equipment with the Euro.

My car is a manual and has 4,000k's on it and I don't think it has the pinging noise. The reason I say I don't think it has the issue is because a passenger the other day asked what the rattling noise was. They only heard it once, so I don't know if it was an isolated thing

[OranparkAddict]

G'day, to other Euro enthusiasts.
I'm 16 and just got my L's (Hell Yea).My parents purchased a Euro Luxury in July/August last year. It now has 20000k's on clock and pings its ass off! It is an auto, like most others with problems. And it is definitely pinging and gives out a very unattractive sound. You can hear it mostly under load but also at differing rpm at different times. It is most prominent around 60kph or 2000rpm. If you rev it harder, which you kind of have to in a 4 cylinder, you do not seem to be able to hear it. I think the sound is still there it's just that the engine is louder and consequently you cannot hear it. Apart from this major problem, the experience hasn't been all that good. A new handbrake is required as it rattles from left to right when not in application. A rattle from the front central cup holders is also prominent, only when open. Last but not least, there are various rattles from the parcel shelf in the rear; I think this is the same issue as experienced by others on the forum. You can hear it if from the boot if you turn the radio up.
The dealer we purchased the car from is Narellan Honda in Sydney and it was and still is a rather 'lets not go there' experience. First of all a month or so after purchase they sold us the 'oh it’s the fuel your using change to a higher octane or different brand’. They were notified about the handbrake on the 1000km service and have just rung us to tell us the part is in. Their defence is that they had to order a handbrake assembly from Japan, which I think is a bit farfetched and may just be laziness on their part due to a timeframe which took 6 months for a somewhat basic part.

With the pinging issue how can there not be damage being caused, eventually it will come out and bite Honda in the buttocks. Something needs to be done on these cars before the warranty runs out.

Apart from all this I think the car is incredibly well finished and engineered. This is displayed in top level aesthetics, brilliant interior and lovely quality material usage.

[k3nnis]

Does the CL9 Accord euro auto have these problems? It seems like the CL9 was more reliable to start with?

[tony1234]

Does the CL9 Accord euro auto have these problems? It seems like the CL9 was more reliable to start with?
No it doesn't.06+models are the best of the CL9 series.

[chris41]

Ive been following this issue closely and was speaking to an ex-mechanic
last week who had worked at a Chrysler/Hyundai dealership several years back. He mentioned that customers brought cars in with suspect pinging noises which turned out to be, hard to believe at first but water hammer in the heater pipes in the 2-3k rpm zone, rectified by foam wrapping and cable ties. From whats already been aknowledged by Honda Australia's technical dept, the CU2 problem is not as easy as that.

[OranparkAddict]

The CU2 problem is very strange considering how many engines honda make, and in almost the same form ie. euro engine. It probably has something to do with the high compression ratio or something, but in saying that the s2000's compression is the same. Lets not hold our breath waiting. Considering no formal announcement about the drama has been made by Honda and the general attitude regarding a major engine problem, The general vibe is worringly bad and getting worse. The more they sell without telling customers of the problem is creating more of a sh it fight and it will only get worse.

[HVF00T]

Maybe if Honda stopped detuning the engines for Australia and kept the Japanese engine maps, we wouldn't be having these problems. I bet these issues are not happening in Japan. We have 98 octane fuel and Caltex even claim a sulphur content of only 50ppm so why detune?

[HVF00T]

Maybe if Honda stopped detuning the engines for Australia and kept the Japanese engine maps, we wouldn't be having these problems. I bet these issues are not happening in Japan. We have 98 octane fuel and Caltex even claim a sulphur content of only 50ppm so why detune?

I just found this. Looks like sulphur has been limited to 50ppm in petrol in Australia since 2008 (page 3 - search for sulphur).
http://www.abare.gov.au/publications_html/conference/conference_09/9_1_Biofuels.pdf

[chris41]

Its a shame we don't have 100 octane fuel in WA.
I even rang Shell after reading about their V-Power fuels and
after being transfered around several times
head office here were baffled and knew nothing, great.
WA = Wait Awhile

[primetimex]

Its a shame we don't have 100 octane fuel in WA.
I even rang Shell after reading about their V-Power fuels and
after being transfered around several times
head office here were baffled and knew nothing, great.
WA = Wait Awhile

Don't bother with Shell re: high octane fuels here in Perth - I only use almost exclusively BP 98 Octane with my 09 Euro and at a pinch if I can't get it I use Vortex 98, been fine running ever since.

[chris41]

Yes, BP Ultimate98 is my primary choice. :)

[bk212]

My car has 19,500 km on it, pinging all the way. I agree with the posts here about the superior aesthetics, interior etc of the Euro but in all honesty, if I knew last July what I know now about the pinging, I would have bought a Mazda 6. And that's saying a lot because at the time I didn't think the Mazda 6 could hold a candle to the Euro. My brother in law bought a Mazda 6 recently and although I prefer most things about the Euro, it is lovely sitting in his car and hearing the engine purr with no ping.

[Joystick]

My car has 19,500 km on it, pinging all the way. I agree with the posts here about the superior aesthetics, interior etc of the Euro but in all honesty, if I knew last July what I know now about the pinging, I would have bought a Mazda 6. And that's saying a lot because at the time I didn't think the Mazda 6 could hold a candle to the Euro. My brother in law bought a Mazda 6 recently and although I prefer most things about the Euro, it is lovely sitting in his car and hearing the engine purr with no ping.

Agreed :(

[Zapped]

I posted the following question couple weeks ago previously but I think it got overlooked because discussion deviated into the subject of lubricants. So I decided to post my question again:

I bought a brand new Accord Euro Luxury Navigation in late january this year. I have clocked about 2,300Km with no problems. However, about 10 days ago for the first time I noticed a strange popping noise coming from the back of the car. The noise did not re-occur until last night when I heard the same noise again.

I am sure that the noise came from the muffler tube on the left. It sounded like a "pop" inside a metallic tube.

Does this sound to any of you, like the pinging noise that everybody is talking about? (I hope you say no)

[MiSloVic]

I posted the following question couple weeks ago previously but I think it got overlooked because discussion deviated into the subject of lubricants. So I decided to post my question again:

I bought a brand new Accord Euro Luxury Navigation in late january this year. I have clocked about 2,300Km with no problems. However, about 10 days ago for the first time I noticed a strange popping noise coming from the back of the car. The noise did not re-occur until last night when I heard the same noise again.

I am sure that the noise came from the muffler tube on the left. It sounded like a "pop" inside a metallic tube.

Does this sound to any of you, like the pinging noise that everybody is talking about? (I hope you say no)

that's the undocumented afterburner... hehe.. sounds like your fuel is too rich and 'exploding' in the muffler/cat.

[jbowly]

April 22nd 2009. No advice from Honda still for the fix for the Euro 2009 pinging problem.
Now done 10,000 piniging kilometers and owned the car for 7 unpleasurable months.
Hondas lack of action to fix this problem in 7 months.Doesnt this say to you its not just a minor problem. Anyone interested in becoming part of a class action against Honda for their lack of attention to this manufacturer created fault. Remember when you drove the demostrator vehicle before purchase did it have an engine pinging noise.
Ill bet it didnt. And when you drove your supplied new vehicle home did it then have an engine pinging noise. Ill bet it did. Does this sound like a second hand car sales trichk to you. Remember your car is depreciating the longer you hold on to it. Since Honda are not prioritizing a fix doesnt it go witout saying you cannot sell your vehicle until it is fixed even if you wanted to. Get involved in a class action. As individuals they can divide and seperate as a group we before a force to be dealt with. Contact me at jbowly@tpg.com.au if you want action

[VIDSEURO]

below email rec'd by VIDSEURO 23-4-2009

Im not sure if i want it to be enhanced.... (LOL)

Further to our previous correspondence we have just received some good news in relation to the software countermeasure.

Honda Japan has conducted extensive field testing to evaluate the countermeasure software under conditions in this country. As a result we have received confirmation that the software update is ready for release and that it will enhance the combustion sound. However, Honda Japan has also advised that in conjunction with the software upgrade a revised engine knock sensor is to be installed and both actions will need to be carried out at the same time.

These knock sensors are being fast tracked for manufacture and we will be in a position to attend to your vehicle as soon as possible around June/July at which time we will arrange for you to be contacted via your Honda dealer.

Meanwhile we do appreciate your cooperation while investigations have taken place.

Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD
Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services

[OranparkAddict]

MMMM sounds more promising, but they need to make an official announcement about the problem and the newest solution.

[VIDSEURO]

MMMM sounds more promising, but they need to make an official announcement about the problem and the newest solution.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the little men in white lab coats have done their job
then we will have a winner.
If not Honda Australia have a shyte car....
Im positively hopeful and look forward to this problem being resolved.
Maybe one of you pingers can blow a motor and blame it on the ping.:cool:

Thank guys &

[Joystick]

below email rec'd by VIDSEURO 23-4-2009

Im not sure if i want it to be enhanced.... (LOL)

Further to our previous correspondence we have just received some good news in relation to the software countermeasure.

Honda Japan has conducted extensive field testing to evaluate the countermeasure software under conditions in this country. As a result we have received confirmation that the software update is ready for release and that it will enhance the combustion sound. However, Honda Japan has also advised that in conjunction with the software upgrade a revised engine knock sensor is to be installed and both actions will need to be carried out at the same time.

These knock sensors are being fast tracked for manufacture and we will be in a position to attend to your vehicle as soon as possible around June/July at which time we will arrange for you to be contacted via your Honda dealer.

Meanwhile we do appreciate your cooperation while investigations have taken place.

Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD
Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services

Thanks for the update VIDSEURO!

Interesting wording they use. Also, if it's not a pining issue why does there need to be a revised knock sensor installed?

I'm looking forward to further information on this because I freaking hate the ping sound, I haven't driven my Euro for 2-3 weeks because of this. :(

[SPQR]

......and that it will enhance the combustion sound.

Regards
HONDA AUSTRALIA PTY LTD
Ken Sheppard
Client Relations Specialist
Customer Services

Probably sound more like a fart (lol). I'd be wary of anyone stating that the pinging noise can be enhanced rather than eliminated; as it should be.

[Honda Loon]

I took delivery of a Luxury Auto on 19/12/08 and have experienced the annoying Pinging sound since 200kms. Have now done 7,000kms and the problem just keeps getting worse. Dealer acknowledged noise at first service early January, and said a fix would be available later that month. 3 months later and I've received absolutely no communication/update from dealer or Honda Australia. Have posted a strongly worded complaint via Honda website tonight.

Love everything else about the car, just sick of the crappy noise!! Sounds like a 15 year old Magna :mad:

:( I had Luxury Auto since mid March, has done 1800kms and have the same annoying mettalic rattle from engine bay. The service deppartments of the dealerships are aware and can only say a fix is on the way. Everyone that I have spoken with about the problem say that it's not doing any damage. Not overly reassured by these comments. Spoke to a customer service person from Honda this wek and he said that they are currently working on a solution which involves them replacing a component and then re-calibrating the software. Won't be available until July 09. He said that it was only affecting a small percentage of Euros. Don't beieve this is correct. Disappointed that the 2008 COTY has these fundamental flaws/defects. Really not good enough Honda, especially if you want to considered against the European cars like Audi, BMW, SAAB etc. Interested to hear what other Euro driver think.

[Honda Loon]

Hi Joystick, Feel much the sames as you. Not overly impressed by this annoying pinging from the engine bay. The noise was never in any of the demos's I tried. Maybe Honda had a batch of problematic cars to off load in their Jan/Feb sales? My car also has a seat sensor that has come adrift from the padding and distorting the front seat leather. Have had some annoying problems with my last two Hondas and they are currently really testing my loyalty. I think they take far to long to address the issues raised by their customers.

[aaronng]

Cars don't come perfect. That's why you have warranty. I hope you got your seat replaced under warranty.

[unity]

Cars don't come perfect. That's why you have warranty. I hope you got your seat replaced under warranty.

Is a squeaky seat a real warranty issue? I thought it would fall into the rattle category. Replaceing a seat would be very very expensive fix for an item that still fundamentaly functions correctly. I'd be very surprised if the dealers ever offer me a replacement under warranty.

[frank87]

Wont be buying any Hondas from now on Paid 51.5k for mine still has the issue which i notified Honad in the 3rd week of my ownership the car is closing to 20,000kms now by the time the fix comes out, it really wont matter much the car is getting old.
what a disgrace, takes a year to rectify a engine ping.

I guess if you want luxury you should stick to European

[OranparkAddict]

Wont be buying any Hondas from now on Paid 51.5k for mine still has the issue which i notified Honad in the 3rd week of my ownership the car is closing to 20,000kms now by the time the fix comes out, it really wont matter much the car is getting old.
what a disgrace, takes a year to rectify a engine ping.

I guess if you want luxury you should stick to European

Well considering the amount of time it has taken to get to where we ar enow with the problem indicates that it is not regular and complicated. I think it is the knock sensors not correctly detecting after detonation, if it is this hopefully soft ware will fix this. Other wise YAY cracked pictons and wrecked rings for all!!

Also i dont think that this takes away from it being a luxury car. Its still got the looks, features and technology of a 'luxury' car. Its a very good car out of Japan.

[frank87]

Also I guess its not just the car its also the level of service you receive Customer wise.

as a previous post saying the fix should be about June/ July whats there to say it wont be delayed?. i have been chasing this up with Hondas Customer relation assistant manager / national manager and i tell you its appalling.

Dear Frank

Further to our previous communications we are pleased to confirm that we
have now received advice from Honda Japan that they have developed a
software upgrade to address your vehicle concerns. They have indicted the
expected ETA to receive the software data will be mid to late February and
once the information is available, you will be immediately contacted to
arrange for your vehicle to be attended to as soon as possible.

kind regards
Irene
Irene Price | Assistant Manager - Customer Relations | Honda Australia

Mid/Feb to late Feb. Never heard of it again Contacted her 3 times to when my fix is going to happen as it is now May and below is what i receive after 3 times

Dear Frank, Irene Price has been on annual leave and your e-mail has been directed to my attention.

As you are aware, we have been working closely with the technical division of Honda Corporation in Japan who has conducted extensive field testing to evaluate the countermeasure software under conditions in this country. We have received confirmation that the software update is ready for release and that it will enhance the combustion sound. However, Honda Japan has also advised that in conjunction with the software upgrade a revised engine sensor is to be installed and both actions will need to be carried out at the same time. These sensors are being fast tracked for manufacture and we will be in a position to attend to your vehicle as soon as possible around June/July at which time we will make arrangements for you will be contacted via Larke Hoskins Honda dealer. Meanwhile we do appreciate your cooperation while investigations have taken place.


Regards
Joe Gelsi
Customer Relations Manager
Honda Australia Pty Ltd

Yeah sure annual leave i've emailed her 1s in March 1s in april and the latest in may finally a response.

well heck if it was delayed why do i gotta chase it up. why no 1 bothered to notify me?.
poor service thats what i say poor customer communication poor customer relationship.

this only makes things worse if they took the initiative to contact me maybe i wont be so pist off.

[MiSloVic]

Yeah sure annual leave i've emailed her 1s in March 1s in april and the latest in may finally a response.


yeah.. that's why it is ANNUAL leave... she is on leave for 1 year ;) will be back in another 9 months.

i bet she's got fried by the GFC.

[primetimex]

I've had my 2009 Euro for 2000kms now - purchased this year in March 2009 build date in Nov 08 and no pinging whatsoever (touch wood - knock knock :))

[09euro23]

Hi guys - can add me to the (growing?) list of CU2 luxury autos with a pinging engine. Took it in yesterday to get a look over and told the same deal as all others. Burswood Honda (perth) are waiting for the 'fix it kit' from Honda Japan - they tellin me a few weeks or so. After a quick google and read through this forum, i dont think that will be happening - seems Honda are taking their time addressing this problem... I just told the guy, if the engine breaks, i'll be getting a new one thanks! Not good for $50k+ worth of car...

Seems to be a global problem also - heaps of cases in a few countries!

FYI - got the car in Jan - just clicked over 10,000km - pinging started approx 1000km ago... Fuel octane does FA!

[eur001]

Hi guys - can add me to the (growing?) list of CU2 luxury autos with a pinging engine. Took it in yesterday to get a look over and told the same deal as all others. Burswood Honda (perth) are waiting for the 'fix it kit' from Honda Japan - they tellin me a few weeks or so. After a quick google and read through this forum, i dont think that will be happening - seems Honda are taking their time addressing this problem... I just told the guy, if the engine breaks, i'll be getting a new one thanks! Not good for $50k+ worth of car...

Seems to be a global problem also - heaps of cases in a few countries!

FYI - got the car in Jan - just clicked over 10,000km - pinging started approx 1000km ago... Fuel octane does FA!


Welcome to the club....the "ping" club!!;)

[Joystick]

Is anyone's ping getting worse? Mine can be heard through the entire rev range now and sounds like there's metal shards getting tossed around the engine. :(

[buddah51au]

After 7,000km I finally have the so called pinging issue. It is not repeatable under any given driving conditions or engine load as pre ignition has always been. Some days it is evident, other days it is not. This leads me to believe that it is not pre ignition as we in the trade know it - ie - fuel igniting too far before TDC. It is something entirely different causing this sound. What it is would & has been a difficult diagnosis. Personally i am not concerned as I don't believe it is a detrimental problem in any way. I say that because the problem is intermittent and that would not be the case if it was pre ignition - if that was the case it would be there under certain engine loads constantly.

Knowing how the system works I fully understand Honda Australia's hands are tied until a solution is found from the parent company. While I can understand how it would be an annoying & frustrating problem for some, it can only be heard with the radio off & a sharp ear.

Personally, if this is the only warranty issue I have with the car I will be more than happy with it. A fix is in the pipeline & that is why we have warranty on new cars.

[Joystick]

After 7,000km I finally have the so called pinging issue. It is not repeatable under any given driving conditions or engine load as pre ignition has always been. Some days it is evident, other days it is not. This leads me to believe that it is not pre ignition as we in the trade know it - ie - fuel igniting too far before TDC. It is something entirely different causing this sound. What it is would & has been a difficult diagnosis. Personally i am not concerned as I don't believe it is a detrimental problem in any way. I say that because the problem is intermittent and that would not be the case if it was pre ignition - if that was the case it would be there under certain engine loads constantly.

Knowing how the system works I fully understand Honda Australia's hands are tied until a solution is found from the parent company. While I can understand how it would be an annoying & frustrating problem for some, it can only be heard with the radio off & a sharp ear.

Personally, if this is the only warranty issue I have with the car I will be more than happy with it. A fix is in the pipeline & that is why we have warranty on new cars.

Hey Buddah,

Based on what you've said about pre ignition. Mine occurs constantly and under load all the time and is 100% repeatable.

I'm starting to thing that perhaps my problem could be something else.....I think I'll be booking her in next week.

[SPQR]

After 7,000km I finally have the so called pinging issue. It is not repeatable under any given driving conditions or engine load as pre ignition has always been. Some days it is evident, other days it is not. This leads me to believe that it is not pre ignition as we in the trade know it - ie - fuel igniting too far before TDC. It is something entirely different causing this sound.....

Sad to hear of another affected car. It's pinging/pinking/knocking, not pre-ignition i.e. exactly what Honda describes it as: "A post combustion sound". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

It's wrong to accept it in any way. It's an expensive purchase and the fault should not have been allowed to drag on for so long. It affects your cars' potential resale values as the model will become known for this fault. When they write the book of lemons again, will the CU2 get a mention?

[buddah51au]

Sad to hear of another affected car. It's pinging/pinking/knocking, not pre-ignition i.e. exactly what Honda describes it as: "A post combustion sound". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

It's wrong to accept it in any way. It's an expensive purchase and the fault should not have been allowed to drag on for so long. It affects your cars' potential resale values as the model will become known for this fault. When they write the book of lemons again, will the CU2 get a mention?

What lemon are you talking about, I believe the fault will be rectified in due course & once rectified how will it effect resale values? Sure it has taken time to find a solution, but better to do that & find and effective solution rather than try and mask over the problem as many manufacturers do.

If cars were perfect they would not need to be covered by warranty & I do not know of a perfect car in any price range.

[denot]

Hmmm can anyone post the sound of this "pinging"? A friend and I would really appreciate if we can hear what does it sound like so we can be aware of it...

Or, perhaps someone already trade in their CU2 to dealer becoz of this? I might pop in to the dealer and run a test drive to check how does the pinging sound.

[Bobjones]

Well mine still pings, given it is now one of 5 cars I have, it sits in the garage and is not driven, unless I have to move it out of the way. I am over it, never buy another Honda, hell my 1982 Commodore and my 1989 Mazda RX7 have less rattles and engine noises...FFS Honda pull ya finger out. Once this is sorted I am trading this on a dual cab ute and be done with it...

[denot]

Well mine still pings, given it is now one of 5 cars I have, it sits in the garage and is not driven, unless I have to move it out of the way. I am over it, never buy another Honda, hell my 1982 Commodore and my 1989 Mazda RX7 have less rattles and engine noises...FFS Honda pull ya finger out. Once this is sorted I am trading this on a dual cab ute and be done with it...

strangely my 1996 crap falcon and 2001 commodore has more rattles and problems than my CU2... :confused:

[bk212]

Is anyone's ping getting worse? Mine can be heard through the entire rev range now and sounds like there's metal shards getting tossed around the engine. :(

Yep mine has worsened noticeably in the last couple of weeks. I've done 20,000km since July 2008. Seriously considering getting rid of it and buying a Mazda 6 instead, taking advantage of the 30% investment allowance before 30 June to soften the blow a bit.

[denot]

Yep mine has worsened noticeably in the last couple of weeks. I've done 20,000km since July 2008. Seriously considering getting rid of it and buying a Mazda 6 instead, taking advantage of the 30% investment allowance before 30 June to soften the blow a bit.

should sell it back to the Honda dealer. and when they try to lower the price with "Coz it has pinging problem" reason, run over him with the car!

[Joystick]

Yep mine has worsened noticeably in the last couple of weeks. I've done 20,000km since July 2008. Seriously considering getting rid of it and buying a Mazda 6 instead, taking advantage of the 30% investment allowance before 30 June to soften the blow a bit.

I feel the same way and might explore the possiblilties of getting a VW or 6. To have a constant pinging sound coming from the engine it greatly detracts from the driving experience, it's all I hear now when driving the car. Like others I find that I'm driving my other cars instead of my Euro.

[09euro23]

What lemon are you talking about, I believe the fault will be rectified in due course & once rectified how will it effect resale values? Sure it has taken time to find a solution, but better to do that & find and effective solution rather than try and mask over the problem as many manufacturers do.

If cars were perfect they would not need to be covered by warranty & I do not know of a perfect car in any price range.

Buddah51au - totally agree with you - this is my second honda now and this is the only problem i have experienced! (albeit it may be quite serious, the waranty will cover it!)... In comparison to my previous HSV's, Honda shits on other dealers in respect to service and commitment -- i am sure the fix is coming and all should be resolved in due course! Patience people...

And experience with friends who own mazda's (esspecialy the CX7's and CX9's)... their fuel problems are far worse and mazda have sent them through the ringers like you wouldnt believe!!!

[VIDSEURO]

[QUOTE=denot;2254253]Hmmm can anyone post the sound of this "pinging"? A friend and I would really appreciate if we can hear what does it sound like so we can be aware of it...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The noise that comes from the engine is the same as a baby rattle
with tiny mettalic balls in it.

The noise can occur when motor is cold, or when you are accelerating hard.
Honda's reputation is on the line....

[buddah51au]

Buddah51au - totally agree with you - this is my second honda now and this is the only problem i have experienced! (albeit it may be quite serious, the waranty will cover it!)... In comparison to my previous HSV's, Honda shits on other dealers in respect to service and commitment -- i am sure the fix is coming and all should be resolved in due course! Patience people...

And experience with friends who own mazda's (esspecialy the CX7's and CX9's)... their fuel problems are far worse and mazda have sent them through the ringers like you wouldnt believe!!!


I don't believe it is a serious problem at all and I am sure it will be resolved. Sure i can understand how some people would be frustrated & annoyed with it, but taking a backward step to a mazda to me is laughable. They have their share of problems as well. If the Mazda 6 had a pinging problem you probably couldn't hear it over the road noise that enters the cabin.

When i was working in the trade it was common to see people with problems wanting them fixed yesterday. I look at it from a different perspective, if a manufacturer has a problem with a vehicle I prefer to see them take their time & resolve the problem properly & permanently, which I am certain will be the outcome in this case.

As for Denot wanting a sound clip, I believe that would be an impossibility as it is not loud enough for a microphone to pick up.

[SPQR]

What lemon are you talking about, I believe the fault will be rectified in due course & once rectified how will it effect resale values? Sure it has taken time to find a solution, but better to do that & find and effective solution rather than try and mask over the problem as many manufacturers do.

If cars were perfect they would not need to be covered by warranty & I do not know of a perfect car in any price range.

True enough. But some cars have a citrus reputation. In posing the question, I am hoping that the CU2 would not be in those numbers.

Here is another question: What solution?

[buddah51au]

True enough. But some cars have a citrus reputation. In posing the question, I am hoping that the CU2 would not be in those numbers.

Here is another question: What solution?

We will all find that out in due course

[yfin]

The time to fix is the main issue here. Surely Honda engineers in Japan have the capability to resolve and test a mechanical fix in a short timeframe. 7+ months is not good enough and points to someone in Honda slowing down the fix process or not taking this seriously

[boleh]

yes 7 months show something is really not quite right.. what if this while thing isnt that simple.. maybe the k24z3 isn't worth the 148kw / 8.9l.100km as already advertised? and the solution they've got would need that figure revised to something like 140kw, and they can't release it because they can't do it

i m talking sh** on friday :D

[denot]

7 month? I know they just recall Civic 2001 7th gen last year to fix a problem with their headlight stuff that has been raised when the car just released...

[buddah51au]

You mention a time frame of 7 months, but what you fail to take into account is the time frame it takes to realise there is a problem to start with.

I would look at it as a 3 to 4 month time frame to realise that they have a problem that is effecting a high percentage of cars. From there they would need to carry out field tests to evaluate the problem & then develop a solution. After that they would carry out further extensive field tests to make certain they have found a solution & that would rarely be achieved on the first attempt. It can be very time consuming & people need to be patient. Is it not enough to know that Honda Japan are and have been working towards a satisfactory solution to this problem. Rest assured they will do whatever it takes to eliminate the problem & will release the outcome when they are completely satisfied they are happy with the outcome.

Lets compare apples with oranges, we are talking about a car with a base price of around $35K & people are complaining that a fix for a particular problem has not been found within the first year of a model run.

Now as irrelevant as it is, lets compare that with the mega rich folks who buy multi million $ ocean going yachts who always say it takes around 2 years to get the bugs ironed out. You don't see them complaining about it, instead they let the engineers work through the systems until everything is as it should be. So if any of you guys win lotto and strike it rich, stay away from yachts.

[HunterZero]

What is a worry is that I've heard of Acura dealers in the USA telling customers that the pinging noise is 'normal', but they still pass the complaints on the Honda/Acura. I guess most CU2 Accords have this problem then...

I'm hoping we don't start to see posts of owners of this car over time with engine damage.

Pinging issue for me would be a deal breaker with this car... It's a shame, since they got the driveline in the CL9 so right...

- HZ

[nebt]

Y
I would look at it as a 3 to 4 month time frame to realise that they have a problem that is effecting a high percentage of cars. From there they would need to carry out field tests to evaluate the problem & then develop a solution. After that they would carry out further extensive field tests to make certain they have found a solution & that would rarely be achieved on the first attempt. It can be very time consuming & people need to be patient. Is it not enough to know that Honda Japan are and have been working towards a satisfactory solution to this problem.


Buddah is right. The processes evolved etc aren't as simple as jumping into the problem and having a fix instantly. As frustrating as it is for you guys waiting for a fix...it's just as frustrating for the engineers working on finding the problem to producing the most viable solution to the problem. It's very frustrating but just have to be patient. :)


I guess most CU2 Accords have this problem then...


I wouldn't go as far as saying "most CU2 Accords" having this problem. It just seems like a lot of CU2 owners have this problem because of the various honda fanclub forums having a thread with CU2 owners complaining about the problem.

[09euro23]

yes 7 months show something is really not quite right.. what if this while thing isnt that simple.. maybe the k24z3 isn't worth the 148kw / 8.9l.100km as already advertised? and the solution they've got would need that figure revised to something like 140kw, and they can't release it because they can't do it

i m talking sh** on friday :D

boleh - i dont think you are talking shit - I was actually thinking about this very issue last night - i said to my wife that maybe Honda has advanced the timing too far to achieve the 148Kw power figure, and hence caused a 'pinging' issue... Therefore, any retarding of the timing (in order to fix the ping) will sacrifice some degree of power (this is from experience with some of my previous V8 engines).

I am going to keep a very close eye on the fix and concentrate on this power issue - cause i will be pissed if they have to revise power figures down after just spending over $50k... As far as i am concerned, they need to keep the power at 148Kw, or take back the car due to false sales. Maybe this is why they are taking so long to fix....? could be some serious legal issues if power has to be sacrificed!

[denot]

So the lesson for ppl who wants to buy CU2 is to include "110&#37; money back quarantee if pinging (or whatever honda said this problem was) occured on the car" and if the dealer doesnt want to approve it, walk away...

[bk212]

I don't believe it is a serious problem at all and I am sure it will be resolved. Sure i can understand how some people would be frustrated & annoyed with it, but taking a backward step to a mazda to me is laughable. They have their share of problems as well. If the Mazda 6 had a pinging problem you probably couldn't hear it over the road noise that enters the cabin.

When i was working in the trade it was common to see people with problems wanting them fixed yesterday. I look at it from a different perspective, if a manufacturer has a problem with a vehicle I prefer to see them take their time & resolve the problem properly & permanently, which I am certain will be the outcome in this case.

As for Denot wanting a sound clip, I believe that would be an impossibility as it is not loud enough for a microphone to pick up.

Mate I see where you are coming from. I certainly prefer just about everything about the Euro to the Mazda 6 - but I can't tell you how annoying this noise is. It takes away all the enjoyment of driving a car. And in a Honda too - they are meant to purr! I think I'm so p*d off because I feel like this has taken away the enjoyment of owning a new car. I understand it will be fixed etc but my car won't be new anymore. Anyway, you're right I guess it's all been said before and we just need to wait for a solution.

[Joystick]

Hmmm can anyone post the sound of this "pinging"? A friend and I would really appreciate if we can hear what does it sound like so we can be aware of it...

Or, perhaps someone already trade in their CU2 to dealer becoz of this? I might pop in to the dealer and run a test drive to check how does the pinging sound.

I tried capturing the 'pinging' sound on video but no luck. I can put up the vids if you would like though. :(

Also, I think many on here including myself are generally happy with the car but just venting about the whole pinging issues. It does detract from the whole experience but meh, they'll fix it.

[SPQR]

boleh - i dont think you are talking shit - I was actually thinking about this very issue last night - i said to my wife that maybe Honda has advanced the timing too far to achieve the 148Kw power figure, and hence caused a 'pinging' issue... Therefore, any retarding of the timing (in order to fix the ping) will sacrifice some degree of power (this is from experience with some of my previous V8 engines).

I am going to keep a very close eye on the fix and concentrate on this power issue - cause i will be pissed if they have to revise power figures down after just spending over $50k... As far as i am concerned, they need to keep the power at 148Kw, or take back the car due to false sales. Maybe this is why they are taking so long to fix....? could be some serious legal issues if power has to be sacrificed!

Honda says it's a post combustion sound so it is pinging. It's more likely to be caused by the higher compression ratio of the CU2's engine (compared with the CL9) and that's probably why the "fix" is taking so long: Reducing the compression ratio is not a feasible option for Honda as this would require opening up the engine of all affected cars all over the world where consumers have clout. Hence the solution would have to encompass software (possibly detuning) and a small component like a more sensitive/reactive knock sensor.

They will try to avoid the legal issues but that's a matter of financial might: No consumer could reasonably alone take on the legal resources available to Honda and then convince a judge that there has been a reduction in power or that it means anything important is another matter altogether.

[buddah51au]

Pinging is a pre combustion sound, not a post combustion sound....sure they may sound similar, but they are 2 different things. Pre ignition caused by high compression or ign timing too far advanced usually leaves a tell tale sign on the spark plugs.

After almost 2000km of having this problem I removed the spark plugs yesterday to check for any tell tale signs and they are burning completely clean with no sign of pre ignition.

This satisfies my mind that it is a post combustion sound a stated by Honda.

[SPQR]

Pinging is a pre combustion sound, not a post combustion sound....sure they may sound similar, but they are 2 different things. Pre ignition caused by high compression or ign timing too far advanced usually leaves a tell tale sign on the spark plugs.

After almost 2000km of having this problem I removed the spark plugs yesterday to check for any tell tale signs and they are burning completely clean with no sign of pre ignition.

This satisfies my mind that it is a post combustion sound a stated by Honda.

Not so. Pinging/pinking/knocking is a post combustion sound/event. I have posted the following extract before and here it is again. The full article is worth a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking "Knocking (also called knock, detonation or spark knock, pinking in UK English or pinging in US English) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events."

And:

"Pre-ignition (or preignition) in a spark-ignition engine is a technically different phenomenon from engine knocking, and describes the event wherein the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark plug fires. Pre-ignition is initiated by an ignition source other than the spark, such as hot spots in the combustion chamber, a spark plug that runs too hot for the application, or carbonaceous deposits in the combustion chamber heated to incandescence by previous engine combustion events."

[shakkas]

lol just quietly im over with it is pre or post or prepost arguement.

i just want it fixed resolved and never have this problem again. simple as that

[shakkas]

update, my dealer said that they have received a memo that are able to repair the pinging noise. Service will be calling me on Monday and hopefully get some more info then

[Type R Positive]

lol just quietly im over with it is pre or post or prepost arguement.

i just want it fixed resolved and never have this problem again. simple as that
werd. Hope you get it resolved soon Shakkas. :)

[unity]

update, my dealer said that they have received a memo that are able to repair the pinging noise. Service will be calling me on Monday and hopefully get some more info then

Your service centre updated you on a Sunday????
That's service!!!

[buddah51au]

Not so. Pinging/pinking/knocking is a post combustion sound/event. I have posted the following extract before and here it is again. The full article is worth a read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking "Knocking (also called knock, detonation or spark knock, pinking in UK English or pinging in US English) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events."

And:

"Pre-ignition (or preignition) in a spark-ignition engine is a technically different phenomenon from engine knocking, and describes the event wherein the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder ignites before the spark plug fires. Pre-ignition is initiated by an ignition source other than the spark, such as hot spots in the combustion chamber, a spark plug that runs too hot for the application, or carbonaceous deposits in the combustion chamber heated to incandescence by previous engine combustion events."

you read too many books on theory., so call it what you will. I wonder how much practical experience you have rebuilding engines. The most important thing is at is not pre ignition, which by the way can also be caused by incorrect ignition timing. It is definitely a post combustion sound.

[SPQR]

you read too many books on theory., so call it what you will. I wonder how much practical experience you have rebuilding engines. The most important thing is at is not pre ignition, which by the way can also be caused by incorrect ignition timing. It is definitely a post combustion sound.

Lol. You've worked out that we are in agreement; that it is a post-combustion sound just as Honda said and that it is pinging/pinking/knock and not pre-ignition.

However, I doubt that pre-ignition can be caused by incorrect ignition timing because by definition pre-ignition is an event that occurs before the spark plug fires and the spark plug can only fire when it is timed to do so. Once the spark plug fires then a "sound" event is post-combustion.

No, I have no experience in rebuilding engines and I respect those that do as I grew-up around cars; spending my spare moments in car workshops of one sort or another; watching.

Pax Vobiscum.

[buddah51au]

Lol. You've worked out that we are in agreement; that it is a post-combustion sound just as Honda said and that it is pinging/pinking/knock and not pre-ignition.

However, I doubt that pre-ignition can be caused by incorrect ignition timing because by definition pre-ignition is an event that occurs before the spark plug fires and the spark plug can only fire when it is timed to do so. Once the spark plug fires then a "sound" event is post-combustion.

No, I have no experience in rebuilding engines and I respect those that do as I grew-up around cars; spending my spare moments in car workshops of one sort or another; watching.

Pax Vobiscum.

We are not in agreement at all, engine pinging in the trade is pre ignition, not post ignition.

[primetimex]

Well I posted previously that I had no pinging but now I'm not so sure? I've done 2300km's on the Euro now and it's had this metal ball rattling noise coming from the engine for awhile now. It used to happen only when on low revs / gear but it also seems to occur while I'm cruising on the freeway at 100km/h.

This kind of noise I used to hear in my 350Z but it was once off only every now and then and the car was 3 years old, so I thought it was normal.

I normally have the stereo on so I don't worry too much about that rattling noise ...

[primetimex]

Alright I have contacted my dealership to see if they know anything about this pinging noise and what they have stated is the software and component upgrade will be available mid June and to contact Honda Customer Relations to register my vehicle once the fix becomes available.

So for the record in Perth - for this dealership (Prestige Honda) anyway there's only about 3 people's that's recorded as having reported the pinging issue!

[SPQR]

We are not in agreement at all, engine pinging in the trade is pre ignition, not post ignition.

Your trade is in error. And there is nothing wrong with reading books. They are a store-house of knowledge. Otherwise we'd have to remember everything.

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=4005571&contentId=7009025

http://enc.slider.com/Enc/Engine_knocking

http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=104

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/320471/knocking

http://dictionary.babylon.com/engine&#37;20knocking

And from the MRT Performance website:



"Detonation (also called knock, knocking or spark knock, pinking or pinging) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events."


"Pre-ignition: Another condition that is sometimes confused with detonation is "pre-ignition." This occurs when a point within the combustion chamber becomes so hot that it becomes a source of ignition and causes the fuel to ignite before the spark plug fires. This, in turn, may contribute to or cause a detonation problem.

Instead of the fuel igniting at the right instant to give the crankshaft a smooth kick in the right direction, the fuel ignites prematurely (early) causing a momentarily backlash as the piston tries to turn the crank in the wrong direction. This can be very damaging because of the stresses it creates. It can also localize heat to such an extent that it can partially melt or burn a hole through the top of a piston!

Pre-ignition can also make itself known when a hot engine is shut off. The engine may continue to run even though the ignition has been turned off because the combustion chamber is hot enough for spontaneous ignition. The engine may continue to run-on or "diesel" and chug erratically for several minutes.

To prevent this from happening, some engines have a "fuel cutoff solenoid" on the carburetor to stop the flow of fuel to the engine once the ignition is turned off. Others use an "idle stop solenoid" that closes the throttle completely to shut of the engine's air supply. If either of these devices is misadjusted or inoperative, run-on can be a problem. Engines with electronic fuel injection don't have this problem because the injectors stop spraying fuel as soon as the ignition is turned off."

[buddah51au]

Your trade is in error. And there is nothing wrong with reading books. They are a store-house of knowledge. Otherwise we'd have to remember everything.

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=4005571&contentId=7009025

http://enc.slider.com/Enc/Engine_knocking

http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=104

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/320471/knocking

http://dictionary.babylon.com/engine%20knocking

And from the MRT Performance website:



"Detonation (also called knock, knocking or spark knock, pinking or pinging) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front. The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive. It should not be confused with pre-ignition (or preignition), as they are two separate events."


"Pre-ignition: Another condition that is sometimes confused with detonation is "pre-ignition." This occurs when a point within the combustion chamber becomes so hot that it becomes a source of ignition and causes the fuel to ignite before the spark plug fires. This, in turn, may contribute to or cause a detonation problem.

Instead of the fuel igniting at the right instant to give the crankshaft a smooth kick in the right direction, the fuel ignites prematurely (early) causing a momentarily backlash as the piston tries to turn the crank in the wrong direction. This can be very damaging because of the stresses it creates. It can also localize heat to such an extent that it can partially melt or burn a hole through the top of a piston!

Pre-ignition can also make itself known when a hot engine is shut off. The engine may continue to run even though the ignition has been turned off because the combustion chamber is hot enough for spontaneous ignition. The engine may continue to run-on or "diesel" and chug erratically for several minutes.

To prevent this from happening, some engines have a "fuel cutoff solenoid" on the carburetor to stop the flow of fuel to the engine once the ignition is turned off. Others use an "idle stop solenoid" that closes the throttle completely to shut of the engine's air supply. If either of these devices is misadjusted or inoperative, run-on can be a problem. Engines with electronic fuel injection don't have this problem because the injectors stop spraying fuel as soon as the ignition is turned off."


Never argue with a professor who believes his books are 100% correct, even though theory has been proven wrong many times.

[SteveH]

Well I posted previously that I had no pinging but now I'm not so sure? I've done 2300km's on the Euro now and it's had this metal ball rattling noise coming from the engine for awhile now. It used to happen only when on low revs / gear but it also seems to occur while I'm cruising on the freeway at 100km/h.

This kind of noise I used to hear in my 350Z but it was once off only every now and then and the car was 3 years old, so I thought it was normal.

I normally have the stereo on so I don't worry too much about that rattling noise ...

I think I am in the same boat as you Primetimex. Over the last few weeks I have noticed something like a metallic rattle when the engine is under load. My car has just rolled over 5,000 k's and I have probably noticed it over the past 500 - 1000 k's. Will have to contact my dealer tomorrow I think.

[Bobjones]

strangely my 1996 crap falcon and 2001 commodore has more rattles and problems than my CU2... :confused:

That must be unfortunate, but then again the 82 Commie and 89 Mazda have been rebuilt...by me...atleast the engine in my VZ Commie does not rattle, but then again...it uses a bucket load of fuel (who cares fuel card) and the rest of it will fall apart in 3 years (end of lease) and some P plater will think its cool...

Update, engine still rattles, and as has been said I cannot see it being at the detriment to the engine, if this was occuring on a turbo car I would be extremely worried, will just wait patiently for a fix.

Oh and as for horror stories, Mazda Rx8's having done 40,000km's just out of warranty requiring rebuilds as the apex seals are having gaps of 40thou compared to most decent rotary engine builders clearancing apex seals to 2-3thou...and Mazda don't give a crap...

[primetimex]

I think I am in the same boat as you Primetimex. Over the last few weeks I have noticed something like a metallic rattle when the engine is under load. My car has just rolled over 5,000 k's and I have probably noticed it over the past 500 - 1000 k's. Will have to contact my dealer tomorrow I think.

I usually don't notice the noise when the stereo system is on - normal volume nothing too loud or silly, so it doesn't really bother me.

Like I said I have heard this noise in my 350Z, so I don't think it's unsafe it's just that it occurs far more often in the CU2 so perhaps Honda's got to do a bit more work in their engine area.

You're quite right SteveH - the rattle is most often heard when the engine is under load / accelerating - soon as the engine is off load / cruising along is fine. Maybe it's true what someone's said here - the CU2 engine's hit the limit at CL9 some years back and Honda's simply pushed it too far to get a few Kw to push all that extra 200kg's on!

[denot]

... the CU2 engine's hit the limit at CL9 some years back and Honda's simply pushed it too far to get a few Kw to push all that extra 200kg's on!

why cant they just put the Euro R engine on CU2 instead... oh why... :(

[primetimex]

why cant they just put the Euro R engine on CU2 instead... oh why... :(

Maybe Honda deems it unnecessary here to put the Euro R engine and also cost / competitive pricing considerations.

Would be even nicer if a CU2 can have V6 200kw+ engine I think that's really the only thing missing from the current gen Euro - a meaty enough engine to push its bulk around.

I'm currently using the CU2 now as daily driver work, home etc to put on enough kilometres to see whether the rattling gets any worse or about the same.

[OranparkAddict]

Ok, I think the most alarming thing is that NO official documentation to euro owners has been made from Honda Australia. Dealers have no idea what is going on and are just telling us different things.

Parents Euro was in the dealership yesterday getting the handbrake replaced. Anyway dealer told us the third story of a fix is on the way and we will notify you to bring your car in.

The car has 21000k's on it and when we first took it back to the dealer they said the fuel octane wasnt good enough. It was being filled up with shell v-power and we took it back and said we did, we do and we will fill it up with PULP. It took a long conversation for them to then tell us it was a problem and wont affect the engine. Still haven't received any writing fom dealer or HONDA OZ about the issue.

Between having problems including often having a random jerk at take off, handbrake replaced, rattling rear parcel shelf, windscreen rattle, seat memory failing and pinging honda has basically done nothing. The pinging is a rather embarrasing sound on a 'high performance' 148kw naturally aspirated 'luxury' car.

BTW we purchased the car in june last year,reported the 'pinging' to the dealer in July at first service. I can personally tell you that Honda has known about the problem since July last year. I understand that it takes time to engineer and rectify the issue but with no guidance from Honda what is everyone supposes to do and think.

The dealer the car was purchased fro,m in a South Western Sydney area,(that is specific enough) has been incompetent, Bull#hitting there way through problems and just in general lousy. It took them roughly 3-5 months to order a new handbrake assembly. As they had to get it from Japan.... SURE

Also, there is a rattle on the front central cup holder when it is open. Apart from this and the odd 200kg of extra weight compared to its main competitior i like the car.


Its not making a very good reputation for a company that is so assuring of their quality product. This can equal a resale problem.

When issues like this happend to Subaru and some other car company(i cant remember), they stopped production till they fixed the problem, in this case we are under the impression nothing is happening and no one cares. Improve your act on this issue honda.

[primetimex]

Improve your act on this issue honda.

Sorry to hear all your problems with your CU2 OranParkAddict - hopefully they'll all be fixed to your satisfaction soon.

You're quite right - Honda really needs to improve their act on their supposedly 148kw naturally aspirated luxury engine.

The first thing I hear when I mentioned pinging to the Service Manager was that "did you fill up with premium unleaded fuel - preferably 98 Octane?" to which I replied of course there is nothing else.

This standard reply re: premium fuel is just total rubbish - CU2 can and should run on 95Octane as stated in the manual period. No ifs and buts.

Fact of the matter is the engine is flawed and needs fixing.

For me, I ignored it as I can't really hear the engine pinging when music is on!

[aaronng]

Would be even nicer if a CU2 can have V6 200kw+ engine I think that's really the only thing missing from the current gen Euro - a meaty enough engine to push its bulk around.

Just need to persuade Honda Australia to persuade Honda Japan to make some RHD CU2 with the 3.5L V6 engine. The LHD version is about to go on sale in the US.

[SPQR]

Just need to persuade Honda Australia to persuade Honda Japan to make some RHD CU2 with the 3.5L V6 engine. The LHD version is about to go on sale in the US.

Hear, hear! And so say all (most) of us! There is a reason why there's all that free space under the bonnet.

[SPQR]

Never argue with a professor who believes his books are 100&#37; correct, even though theory has been proven wrong many times.

"The Philistine not only ignores all conditions of life which are not his own but also demands that the rest of mankind should fashion its mode of existence after his own". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

PS Enjoy your mind.

[denot]

Ok, I think the most alarming thing is that NO official documentation to euro owners has been made from Honda Australia. Dealers have no idea what is going on and are just telling us different things.

Parents Euro was in the dealership yesterday getting the handbrake replaced. Anyway dealer told us the third story of a fix is on the way and we will notify you to bring your car in.

The car has 21000k's on it and when we first took it back to the dealer they said the fuel octane wasnt good enough. It was being filled up with shell v-power and we took it back and said we did, we do and we will fill it up with PULP. It took a long conversation for them to then tell us it was a problem and wont affect the engine. Still haven't received any writing fom dealer or HONDA OZ about the issue.

Between having problems including often having a random jerk at take off, handbrake replaced, rattling rear parcel shelf, windscreen rattle, seat memory failing and pinging honda has basically done nothing. The pinging is a rather embarrasing sound on a 'high performance' 148kw naturally aspirated 'luxury' car.

BTW we purchased the car in june last year,reported the 'pinging' to the dealer in July at first service. I can personally tell you that Honda has known about the problem since July last year. I understand that it takes time to engineer and rectify the issue but with no guidance from Honda what is everyone supposes to do and think.

The dealer the car was purchased fro,m in a South Western Sydney area,(that is specific enough) has been incompetent, Bull#hitting there way through problems and just in general lousy. It took them roughly 3-5 months to order a new handbrake assembly. As they had to get it from Japan.... SURE

Also, there is a rattle on the front central cup holder when it is open. Apart from this and the odd 200kg of extra weight compared to its main competitior i like the car.


Its not making a very good reputation for a company that is so assuring of their quality product. This can equal a resale problem.

When issues like this happend to Subaru and some other car company(i cant remember), they stopped production till they fixed the problem, in this case we are under the impression nothing is happening and no one cares. Improve your act on this issue honda.

Strangely the problem you have is more than anyone else got in this forum... I've heard about pinging issue, but for the rattle and all... heck my cousin new BMW series 5 has all the rattle you can get (5 spots inside the car that I can count from test drive it once). He complains to BMW, and after 2-3 months no response (and "fake" fix from BMW dealer) He finnally sold it.

What I'm trying to say here, you cant have a 100&#37; perfect car that doesnt have anything to bother you at all. This pinging issue is really a bad thing and need to be fix, but for the rest of the problem? I think most, if not all, car sort of having this problem. After having Civic Sports before purchasing the CU2, I'm happy enough with the condition and the build quality of the CU2 (havent got pingin issue myself, but I think it just a matter of time for all auto).

And like I sed before, 1 year is nothing compare to the problem me and ppl found on 2001 Honda Civic before, and they just release the fix on 2006.

also, you said CU2 is 200kg heavier than its competitor. What is CU2 competitors that 200kg lighter?

anyway, just my 2 cents...

[aaronng]

Mazda6 is 100kg lighter, and Liberty 2.5 is 150kg lighter. Not sure which car is 200kg lighter.... Maybe Mazda3?

[Type R Positive]

Maybe Honda deems it unnecessary here to put the Euro R engine and also cost / competitive pricing considerations.

Would be even nicer if a CU2 can have V6 200kw+ engine I think that's really the only thing missing from the current gen Euro - a meaty enough engine to push its bulk around. FWD V6? Both the Accord V6 and Aurion suck compared to Falcon and Commodore (to drive). RWD FTW!

[denot]

Even camry still under 100kgs different... taken from "Aurion specification summary PDF" (LOL!!!! Toyota doesnt even have quality checking on the item posted on their website)

the page: http://www.toyota.com.au/camry/specifications read the 'Download PDF' section at the bottom (sorry but cant help it :p)

[buddah51au]

FWD V6? Both the Accord V6 and Aurion suck compared to Falcon and Commodore (to drive). RWD FTW!

I totally agree with that comment, Those sort of power figures in a FWD vehicle do nothing for handling and can only result in plow understeer. You would also loose the advantage of the excellent fuel economy that is possible from the CU2, which for many of us is a major plus.

[Type R Positive]

I totally agree with that comment, Those sort of power figures in a FWD vehicle do nothing for handling and can only result in plow understeer. You would also loose the advantage of the excellent fuel economy that is possible from the CU2, which for many of us is a major plus.
Don't forget the easy $60k+ price tag for a V6 CU2 on the road, going on their current pricing.
Soooooooo many better cars out there for that price.

That is the best thing about my CU2. I got a whole lot of car for $35k. How many cars come close to the features of the base model for the price?

[denot]

That is the best thing about my CU2. I got a whole lot of car for $35k. How many cars come close to the features of the base model for the price?

agreed :thumbsup:

[buddah51au]

Even @ 60K a CU2 luxury with full body kit, F & R bumpers & a nice set of 19" wheels would be hard to beat

[SPQR]

There is nothing wrong with choice. Honda could increase market share if they sell both the 2.4L and the 3.5L in OZ.

I've not owned a car with more than 4 cylinders. I would be interested in a V6 Euro as I feel I won't be able to justify a V6 in 5 years time and I would like to sample a dose of grunt.

[boleh]

There is nothing wrong with choice. Honda could increase market share if they sell both the 2.4L and the 3.5L in OZ.

I've not owned a car with more than 4 cylinders. I would be interested in a V6 Euro as I feel I won't be able to justify a V6 in 5 years time and I would like to sample a dose of grunt.

I was really hoping there will be a 3.5 v6 in the 2nd gen euro..

[Kodak]

Article in the carsguide today stated honda have a solution to the pinging problem. It sounded like an update to the ECU software

[denot]

Article in the carsguide today stated honda have a solution to the pinging problem. It sounded like an update to the ECU software

And here's the article: http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/story/honda_accord_engine_problem_being_fixed/

[SPQR]

The article states that there's only 60 cars maximum that are affected in OZ and that there are only a handful in the USA.

What a load of cods-wallop! I think that all CU2's are affected; in many cases the owners don't know it and so haven't reported it.

[buddah51au]

Question to Type R positive, are you effected by this so called pinging problem? It seems a certain member on this forum believes all CU2's are effected. I don't believe that is the case, whats your opinion?

[unity]

This guy from honda is talking crap. He says " We don't know what the issue is, as yet,"

"But the good news is that we had an issue, and there is a counter- measure. It's an electronic or ECU issue, not a mechanical issue."

Firstly, he says they don't know what the issue is. Then secondly, he goes on to say it's an electronic or ECU issue. How is it possible to fix a problem 100&#37; if you don't know what the issue is ? It may be entirely possible the issue may arise again if they haven't found the source of the issue.

I'd like to know exactly how they came up with this fix. Did they actually study the cars concerned in extensive detail to find a common cause then compare it in the same extensive detail to a known CU2 car that is not reporting this issue. There are thousands of different parameters that they can study on the car and unless they have done detailed analysis on everyones cars i wouldn't feel entirely 100% confident they have the solution.

There is a comments section associated with that article. Why doesn't every one with the problem write in to say their car is affected then everyone will get a true picture as to how extensive this problem is. It may even open Honda's eyes and make them realise it's much more extensive than they are reporting. Also it's a very public domain and I'm sure Honda won't want to see too much bad publicity there.

[buddah51au]

This guy from honda is talking crap. He says " We don't know what the issue is, as yet,"

"But the good news is that we had an issue, and there is a counter- measure. It's an electronic or ECU issue, not a mechanical issue."

Firstly, he says they don't know what the issue is. Then secondly, he goes on to say it's an electronic or ECU issue. How is it possible to fix a problem 100&#37; if you don't know what the issue is ? It may be entirely possible the issue may arise again if they haven't found the source of the issue.

I'd like to know exactly how they came up with this fix. Did they actually study the cars concerned in extensive detail to find a common cause then compare it in the same extensive detail to a known CU2 car that is not reporting this issue. There are thousands of different parameters that they can study on the car and unless they have done detailed analysis on everyones cars i wouldn't feel entirely 100% confident they have the solution.

There is a comments section associated with that article. Why doesn't every one with the problem write in to say their car is affected then everyone will get a true picture as to how extensive this problem is. It may even open Honda's eyes and make them realise it's much more extensive than they are reporting. Also it's a very public domain and I'm sure Honda won't want to see too much bad publicity there.

Some people make me laugh, did you ever think that the guy who did the interview does not know what the problem is? Lets just wait & see what the outcome is before criticizing people unjustifiably. If the countermeasure they are talking about does not rectify the problem people can complain all they like, but until that time we need to be patient.

Personally, I think the problem is so minor I am not concerned about it in any way. From your details you own a 2007 Euro which is not effected, so i can't see what your beef is.

[unity]

Some people make me laugh, did you ever think that the guy who did the interview does not know what the problem is? Lets just wait & see what the outcome is before criticizing people unjustifiably. If the countermeasure they are talking about does not rectify the problem people can complain all they like, but until that time we need to be patient.

Personally, I think the problem is so minor I am not concerned about it in any way. From your details you own a 2007 Euro which is not effected, so i can't see what your beef is.

I know my car is not affected. But I have had to deal with HA with other issues and their service is poor. It appears this guy is trying to covering up the extent of the number of cases.

By saying 60 people maximum are affected he is implying that the problem is minor and not that widespead. Whilst the problem might be minor may mislead future buyers into believing that if they were to buy a new Accord Euro today then there will be a very, very small probability they will buy a pinging car. Whereas if he was to state that there are actually 500 (this is a hypothetical number) cars out there with the problem then a prospective buyer would probably think twice before they buy the car just incase they ended up with a pinging car.

My point is that I'm sure that more than 60 cars out there have this problem. And I'm sure Honda and Honda dealers have had more than 60 reports of problem from the owners.

[buddah51au]

I know my car is not affected. But I have had to deal with HA with other issues and their service is poor. This guy is blantantly covering up the extent of the number of cases. I can't stand people who are dishonest.

By saying 60 people maximum are affected he is implying that the problem is minor and not that widespead. Whilst the problem might be minor he is deceiving future buyers into believing that if they were to buy a new Accord Euro today then there will be a very, very small probability they will buy a pinging car. Whereas if he was to state that there are actually 500 (this is a hypothetical number) cars out there with the problem then a prospective buyer would probably think twice before they buy the car just incase they ended up with a pinging car.

My point is that I'm sure that more than 60 cars out there have this problem. And I'm sure Honda and Honda dealers have had more than 60 reports of problem from the owners.

I have no facts or figures on the number of cars effected & i have a CU2 Auto.

I am also certain you have no ideas on the number of cars effected & speculation is just that.

We should deal with facts only, anything else is unhelpful to everyone. The fact I can report is I personally know of 4 CU2 Auto's & mine is the only 1 effected, to an extent it is so minor that it presents no concern to me.

Another important fact is only a very small percentage of Honda Owners use this forum & you rarely hear from a person who has no problems. I would also go as far as to say there is a high percentage of owners who don't even know this forum exists, add to that the number of people that don't have a computer or internet access.

This forum would be so much better if people dealt with facts only, and had qualifications to back up there comments.

[unity]

We should deal with facts only, anything else is unhelpful to everyone. The fact I can report is I personally know of 4 CU2 Auto's & mine is the only 1 effected, to an extent it is so minor that it presents no concern to me.

Another important fact is only a very small percentage of Honda Owners use this forum & you rarely hear from a person who has no problems. I would also go as far as to say there is a high percentage of owners who don't even know this forum exists, add to that the number of people that don't have a computer or internet access.



Exactly my point. In your own circle 25&#37; of cars have the problem. This forum represents a very small number of total owners out there. There would have to be almost 60 people on here that have reported the problem. Therefore it's much more wide spread than 60 cases.

If you can see through HA smoke screen then you can extrapolate the data and see the problem is probably more widespread than they are reporting. At the end of the day who wants to purchase anything, especially a car that has a potential fault or problem.

[unity]

So buddad51au, you have been involved with this thread from the start and have read accounts from many other owners on here with the so called problem. Considering that people on this forum only make up a tiny percentage of all Accord Euro owners out there, do you believe the guy from HA when he says

"It's a handful of cars. We've sold 9000 or 10,000 Euros in the past year and it's around 60 vehicles maximum."

Does any one believe the above comment?

[buddah51au]

Exactly my point. In your own circle 25&#37; of cars have the problem. This forum represents a very small number of total owners out there. There would have to be almost 60 people on here that have reported the problem. Therefore it's much more wide spread than 60 cases.

If you can cut through HA crap then you can extrapolate the data and see the problem is much more widespread than they are reporting. At the end of the day who wants to purchase anything, especially a car that has a potential fault or problem.

At the end of the day i would buy another Euro tomorrow, there is nothing else in the market that comes close to it for value.

Fact, as of April 20 the dealership i am involved with has sold 382 CU2 Autos with 5 reported cases. that equates to slightly under 1.5% so where you get the figure of 25% from is beyond my imagination. whether there are 60 cars or 600 cars is irrelevent as long as a solution is found.
Oh, and for your information I don't work for the dealer so those figures are unbiased and factual. I do know the staff there well and we have discussed this problem in depth. We also went to the extent of having a CU2 on a Dyno for 3 hours trying to replicate & diagnose this problem. We were unable to hear the so called pinging with the bonnet raised due to drive train noise. It can only be heard inside the car with the radio & fan off and we were not able to duplicate it under repeatable engine loads or RPM. It is a very strange problem & definitely not pre ignition.

After almost 40 years in the Motor Trade I think I know a little bit, my personal opinion is there are very few cars in the market place that can match Honda for Build Quality and Reliability, Regardless of the price range of a given vehicle.

[nebt]

Honda for Build Quality and Reliability[/QUOTE]

This is very true. It's why our family keeps buying Honda cars (have 3 atm) because their build quality and reliability are exceptional especially considering the price.

[unity]

whether there are 60 cars or 600 cars is irrelevent as long as a solution is found.

I agree with a lot of what you say and I belive Honda make exceptional cars for their value, and I know you have a lot more experience and knowledge about cars than what I do.

What I am questioning is the honesty of HA to come out with the statement and figures that they have put out in the public domain. I honestly think they are under quoting the true figures. And it's in their interest to do so. It's coming to the end of year sales and I'm sure that they are expecting to unload a heap of new Euros between now and the end of the financial year. If they were to come out with a much larger figure that would no doubt put potential sales of the CU2 in coming months in jeopardy. And who ever likes to come out and publically show their branded product in a bad light. Hence the very conservative figure they have put out in that report.

At the end of the day one would like to think that when we communicate with HA that they will be honest and upfront in their communication

[aaronng]

Don't forget the easy $60k+ price tag for a V6 CU2 on the road, going on their current pricing.
Soooooooo many better cars out there for that price.


What can you get for $60k with a 3.5L or larger V6, other than an Aurion, Commodore, Falcon and Magna? Assume the buyer is oldish (with the 60k cash) and want an NA engine (or a Saab/Volvo turbo), so turbo pocket rockets are out of the question.

[buddah51au]

I agree with a lot of what you say and I belive Honda make exceptional cars for their value, and I know you have a lot more experience and knowledge about cars than what I do.

What I am questioning is the honesty of HA to come out with the statement and figures that they have put out in the public domain. I honestly think they are under quoting the true figures. And it's in their interest to do so. It's coming to the end of year sales and I'm sure that they are expecting to unload a heap of new Euros between now and the end of the financial year. If they were to come out with a much larger figure that would no doubt put potential sales of the CU2 in coming months in jeopardy. And who ever likes to come out and publically show their branded product in a bad light. Hence the very conservative figure they have put out in that report.

At the end of the day one would like to think that when we communicate with HA that they will be honest and upfront in their communication

Let me try ta answer that as honestly as i can after years of experience. It is very hard to communicate with anyone from Honda Australia, or from any other Motor Vehicle Manufacturer for that matter. The primary reason is due to high staff turn over which has always been the case in the motor industry. Very few people stay in 1 position for long periods. The primary reason for this is it has always been a low paying trade to be involved in and people are always on the lookout for greener pastures.

The same goes when dealing with dealerships, people don't stay in a given workshop for long. Dealerships themselves are generally regarded to be at the bottom level of the pay scale for mechanics, so turnover is quite high, that is the reason for the current trend towards Asian Mechanics in Dealerships. Any Business is only as good as the people working for that business, when staff turnover is high it is very hard to build and maintain a reputable business.

As for people being up front and honest with their customers, I have no doubt they try to be, but you are often dealing with a different person each time, therefore previous conversations with a customer are unknown.

Unfortunately, that is the nature of the Motor Trade. I guess i have a big advantage over most other people in that I have the knowledge and know how to service & diagnose problems with my own vehicles. Sure the would be some manufacturers who would be unhappy about that and possibly even try to void warranty to me for that reason, but legally i know where i stand. This experience also allows me to know what is a detrimental problem and what is not, and I have seen some classics over the years even on high end vehicles.

My view is the Honda Accord from the late 80"s on has been the best car in their class ( with the possible exception of 98 to 03 when we only had the Thai Accord imported here). While there is no such thing as a perfect car regardless of price, there have been very few, if any major problems with Accords (pre 98) or Euro's (post 03). I have seen many of the earlier accords with well over 400,000km without major problems & I believe Euro's will deliver the same longevity (providing they are treated properly & serviced regularly....beyond what is recommended in the service book )

This Current so called Pinging Issue is no doubt an annoying and frustrating problem to some & I hope it gets sorted out. I firmly believe it is not a detrimental problem & I have no concerns about it effecting the longevity of my vehicle. Regardless of the current problem my advice to people in the market for this class of car is Nothing Comes Close to the Euro including the Mazda 6. A bigger statement is I personally rate the Euro in front of a 4 cly 3 series BMW, Audi A4 & Lexus IS250. I know ther will be lots of disagreements with that last comment but so be it.

[unity]

Let me try ta answer that as honestly as i can after years of experience. It is very hard to communicate with anyone from Honda Australia, or from any other Motor Vehicle Manufacturer for that matter. The primary reason is due to high staff turn over which has always been the case in the motor industry. Very few people stay in 1 position for long periods. The primary reason for this is it has always been a low paying trade to be involved in and people are always on the lookout for greener pastures.

The same goes when dealing with dealerships, people don't stay in a given workshop for long. Dealerships themselves are generally regarded to be at the bottom level of the pay scale for mechanics, so turnover is quite high, that is the reason for the current trend towards Asian Mechanics in Dealerships. Any Business is only as good as the people working for that business, when staff turnover is high it is very hard to build and maintain a reputable business.

As for people being up front and honest with their customers, I have no doubt they try to be, but you are often dealing with a different person each time, therefore previous conversations with a customer are unknown.

Unfortunately, that is the nature of the Motor Trade. I guess i have a big advantage over most other people in that I have the knowledge and know how to service & diagnose problems with my own vehicles. Sure the would be some manufacturers who would be unhappy about that and possibly even try to void warranty to me for that reason, but legally i know where i stand. This experience also allows me to know what is a detrimental problem and what is not, and I have seen some classics over the years even on high end vehicles.

My view is the Honda Accord from the late 80"s on has been the best car in their class ( with the possible exception of 98 to 03 when we only had the Thai Accord imported here). While there is no such thing as a perfect car regardless of price, there have been very few, if any major problems with Accords (pre 98) or Euro's (post 03). I have seen many of the earlier accords with well over 400,000km without major problems & I believe Euro's will deliver the same longevity (providing they are treated properly & serviced regularly....beyond what is recommended in the service book )

This Current so called Pinging Issue is no doubt an annoying and frustrating problem to some & I hope it gets sorted out. I firmly believe it is not a detrimental problem & I have no concerns about it effecting the longevity of my vehicle. Regardless of the current problem my advice to people in the market for this class of car is Nothing Comes Close to the Euro including the Mazda 6. A bigger statement is I personally rate the Euro in front of a 4 cly 3 series BMW, Audi A4 & Lexus IS250. I know ther will be lots of disagreements with that last comment but so be it.

Good points there. Let's hope for everyones sake there is a happy ending for all.
It's so true that almost every time you have to contact HA or the dealership you end up having to speak to someone new. In my case the first time I had to call my dealership with a concern the sales person that had sold me my car had already left.
Where it gets most frustrating for me is that I am in a job whereby I'm dealing with the public all the time. I set my standards high when it comes to providing customer service. It's so annoying when you get a level of customer service that is way below the level of service that you yourself would have provided to that person if they had been your customer.

[SPQR]

457 Visa workers; not "asian".

Affecting affected affect.

The chief mechanic at my local dealership has been there for 23 years. If his job is low paid and he hasn't looked for greener pasture, does that make him dodgy?

[buddah51au]

456 Visa workers; not "asian".

Affecting affected affect.

The chief mechanic at my local dealership has been there for 23 years. If his job is low paid and he hasn't looked for greener pasture, does that make him dodgy?

There is an exception to every rule, but it would be very rare to see anyone outside of their apprenticeship stay at any 1 dealer for over 3 or 4 years.

As for Asian mechanics, who cares what visa it is called. What I can tell you is in this town the Holden, Ford & Toyota Dealerships employ Filipino mechanics on 1 year contracts. They have no formal training standards in their own countries, but are hired by certain dealerships to service & repair cars for low pay and high labour rates.

So there is another subject for you to find a book on, research it and post an unqualified opinion.

[SPQR]

As for Asian mechanics, who cares what visa it is called. What I can tell you is in this town the Holden, Ford & Toyota Dealerships employ Filipino mechanics on 1 year contracts. They have no formal training standards in their own countries, but are hired by certain dealerships to service & repair cars for low pay and high labour rates.

So there is another subject for you to find a book on, research it and post an unqualified opinion.

That's right, only Australia has training and standards. That's an unqualified opinion that is in accord with yours. I didn't have to research it. I just made it up.

[SPQR]

Oops! I just researched Australian motor mechanics pay: The average is apparently $34,614 per annum.

Interestingly, the minimum pay rate for anyone visiting OZ on a 457 visa is $43,440 per annum. It seems those Filipinos are better paid than the aussie average for mechanics.

[The X Man]

It is very hard to communicate with anyone from Honda Australia, or from any other Motor Vehicle Manufacturer for that matter.

Not quite every Motor Vehicle Manufacturer. I bought a new Aurion and it was plagued with problems the moment i drove it out of the lot. It spend over 1 month at the dealership within 6 months (returned 15 times) and they still couldn't fix it.

Throughout this period i maintained good communications with staff at the SA Regional Office and even went in for a face to face meeting. Despite the dealers attempts to correct ths issues further complaints landed me talking directly to the brass in Melbourne including engineers and head customer relations managers.

In the end the case was resolved to my favour, especially when the Regional Manager drove miles out of their way to collect my car and settle their and then (no more Aurion).

In my mind Toyota Australia run rings around those morons at Honda Australia. They set an example of what Customer Service really is, it's a pity other manufacturers like Honda haven't the brains to follow suit.

[buddah51au]

That's right, only Australia has training and standards. That's an unqualified opinion that is in accord with yours. I didn't have to research it. I just made it up.

You make it so easy to discredit your comments. How many times have you been to the Philippines? How many Filipino family members do you have who are mechanics? How many Vehicle Repair Facilities have you financed in the Philippines? Have you ever been there at all? Have you seen first hand what the Training process is for Mechanics in the Philippines? The list of questions could go on?

[denot]

geezzz what does filipino family with working visa has to do with this problem with the CU2? :confused::confused::confused: What next? Africans is the caused why Honda release city here? Stay to the topic ppl!!!

Back to the topic: from the article they found 60 owner has the problem with ECU. make me think that this "ECU" problem is diff to the "Pinging or whatever" problem that most ppl have...

[buddah51au]

geezzz what does filipino family with working visa has to do with this problem with the CU2? :confused::confused::confused: What next? Africans is the caused why Honda release city here? Stay to the topic ppl!!!

Back to the topic: from the article they found 60 owner has the problem with ECU. make me think that this "ECU" problem is diff to the "Pinging or whatever" problem that most ppl have...

Nothing at all Denot, I made a response to UNITY in good faith, but low and behold Professor SPQR stuck his bib in & got a case of foot in mouth disease again. No comment was directed at him & he had no need to get involved.

If you read the post Unity commented that i made some good points, there was no need for another to get invloved.

[SPQR]

Nothing at all Denot, I made a response to UNITY in good faith, but low and behold Professor SPQR stuck his bib in & got a case of foot in mouth disease again. No comment was directed at him & he had no need to get involved.

If you read the post Unity commented that i made some good points, there was no need for another to get invloved.

I don't know what your problem is but I suspect that you might be senile. We were getting on just fine going all the way back to your post (#370) where you reported the pinging issue for your car to which I posted (#372) "Sad to hear of another affected car..." but it went downhill after that when I expressed the hope that the CU2 would not in future be known as a lemon. Despite this innocuous statement, you pounced as if you had thought I'd called the CU2 a lemon. Later, we disagreed in that you seem to think that pinging and pre-ignition are the same whereas in fact they are not. You seem to have taken further exception to my quoting on this topic, for the beneficial information of all, from other sources that were not just me saying something and expecting others to believe me without question. You, on the other hand, appear to sprout Gospel at every turn without any reference to other sources other than your (no doubt) considerable experience; or so you say.

You also did not seem to like me agreeing with aaronng that a V6 option for the Euro might be a nice alternative choice.

"The Philistine not only ignores all conditions of life which are not his own but also demands that the rest of mankind should fashion its mode of existence after his own". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

[Zapped]

[QUOTE=SPQR;2271244]I don't know what your problem is but I suspect that you might be senile.

We are all interested and have different opinions in the Pinging issue but one thing is for sure:

There is no need to insult people.

Let's not degrade this excellent thread.

[buddah51au]

After 40 years in the Motor Vehicle Repair Industry I have learnt 1 or 2 things about cars. I joined this forum about 3 years ago to help and advise people with problems. I seriously doubt there is too much for me to personally learn from being here.
While I don't pretend to know everything there is to know ( know one does), i have seen some classic problems over my time, the worst involving Mercedes and Jaguars.
While there maybe a small problem with the CU2 Accord & a post ignition noise I personally believe an ant hill has been turned into mount everest, yes i do know about the problem as i own a CU2 Euro Auto. I also believe the problem will be resolved in due course. Rarely do you see a car that is problem free. This is harder for us customers to accept with Honda because they have built their reputation on build quality and reliability, but they are not immune to the odd problem.
I remember a high end imported limousine that took 5 years to rectify a gearbox problem.

I don't need unqualified people trying to tell me my trade. Reading books on theory has nothing to do with practical as has been proven many times.

I answer 1 member & i bring up the subject of dealeships using Filiipino mechanics, a subject I also know a little about as I have extended family in the Philippines & unfortunately i have financed 3 repair shops there & have seen the goings on there. A classic example of a repair was a Toyota with a big end bearing rattle, the filipino remedy was to remove the big end gaps and file them to reduce clearance. Do we need things like that in this country, I don't think so.

Good luck to all OZ Honda Forum members in the future as i am signing off permanently. Enjoy your rides.

[denot]

^^^

Hmmm... Grats SPQR?

Anyway, I will too sign off from this thread as it becomes more and more useless everyday and will wait for Honda Australia to inform me when the fix is released (not that I got any pinging).

Peace out...

[Zapped]

[QUOTE= ......
Good luck to all OZ Honda Forum members in the future as i am signing off permanently. Enjoy your rides.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I was afraid of.

Good posters going away = Degradation of Forum

All because some people find hard to stick to good manners when someone has different opinions. What a shame!

Where is the moderator????

Buddah - I hope you re-consider for the good of this forum and the majority of readers that value your opinion.

SPQR - If you cannot contribute to this forum without insulting people, please refrain from posting.

[Type R Positive]

In my mind Toyota Australia run rings around those morons at Honda Australia. They set an example of what Customer Service really is, it's a pity other manufacturers like Honda haven't the brains to follow suit.
They aren't the biggest and the best manufacturer in the world with the worlds best standards for nothing!

Toyota = dead set legends. :thumbsup:

[Type R Positive]

This is exactly what I was afraid of.

Good posters going away = Degradation of Forum

All because some people find hard to stick to good manners when someone has different opinions. What a shame!

Where is the moderator????

Buddah - I hope you re-consider for the good of this forum and the majority of readers that value your opinion.

SPQR - If you cannot contribute to this forum without insulting people, please refrain from posting.
Agreed.

Don't go Buddah.

SPQR, ask any mechanic what ping is. I dare ya. My father said it's pre-ignition, and so did my father-in-law. Both have been heavy diesel fitter mechanics for all their lives.

[SteveH]

Very sad to see people with some genuine advice to go from any forum. I don't know why it has to degrade into insults because someone has a different opinion and/or one you don't like.

A lot of what is posted is an opinion, but it should never be quoted as fact, that is when problems arise. If you don't like something, attack the post, not the person. State fact, not something that has been heard from someone else.

[SPQR]

There is no joy in this result whatsoever but you overlook the constant derision he threw my way which started well before the Filipino mechanics matter. It was not my intention to have buddah51au leave.

I offered alternative (helpful) opinion on the nature of pinging/pinking/knocking and that other thing known as pre-ignition. I even offered references to other sources. And I had even offered peace ("pax vobiscum" or peace be with you) but got attacked instead.

[Zapped]

There is no joy in this result whatsoever but you overlook the constant derision he threw my way which started well before the Filipino mechanics matter. It was not my intention to have buddah51au leave.

I offered alternative (helpful) opinion on the nature of pinging/pinking/knocking and that other thing known as pre-ignition. I even offered references to other sources. And I had even offered peace ("pax vobiscum" or peace be with you) but got attacked instead.

Sorry SPQR but...it still does nor justify the word "senile". Attacking an opinion is one thing attacking a person is a very different thing.

[ozscott]

Im new to this forum but not to vehicles and mechanics....pre-ignition = pinging.

Cheers

[godiva]

I don't frequent this forum often, but in view of what i have just read i spent time reading this entire thread.
All I will add is that you have all lost a very knowledgeable mechanic. Yes I knew buddah personally many years ago, he can be very stubborn & firm in his beliefs, but he did know what he was talking about.
When he was talking about his knowledge of Filipino mechanics he should know, his wife is Filipino and i personally know he has visited that country many times.
My understanding is he basically went into exile about 10 years ago after a dreadful family tragedy, much to the loss of those of us in Sydney who used his services.
SPQR, I don't know you & don't want to become involved, all I will say is he always gave sound & solid advice.

[Bobjones]

Fark me...what a bunch of women.
Buddah, PM your email addy, we can continue our discussion about manufacturer F-ups off forum!!

Oh and for the record, look in the poll, I have found loose exhuast bolts and have re-tightened all of them using avaiation grade locktite (heat resistance of course) a product we use on the race cars manifold bolts and it seems to have made the problem disappear.

SPQR, not to jump on the band wagon, but I find most of your posts rude and obnoxious, you can correct my spelling if you so desire...carry on in your dream world of theory...

[Zapped]

This thread has been quite for a while.

It is June (The month given by Honda for the availability of the pinging fix) and I was wondering if anybody has heard from Honda about the solution to the pinging issue.

Cheers

[SPQR]

This thread has been quite for a while.

It is June (The month given by Honda for the availability of the pinging fix) and I was wondering if anybody has heard from Honda about the solution to the pinging issue.

Cheers

I've been upset.


Fark me...what a bunch of women.
Buddah, PM your email addy, we can continue our discussion about manufacturer F-ups off forum!!

Oh and for the record, look in the poll, I have found loose exhuast bolts and have re-tightened all of them using avaiation grade locktite (heat resistance of course) a product we use on the race cars manifold bolts and it seems to have made the problem disappear.

SPQR, not to jump on the band wagon, but I find most of your posts rude and obnoxious, you can correct my spelling if you so desire...carry on in your dream world of theory...

Are you suggesting it might be a "farting" like leak from the exhaust pipe connection to the integral exhaust manifold?

[eur001]

I still havnt heard any good news...
As usual, this is HONDA way!!!! :thumbdwn:

[BatRambo]

Same issue here, 20K on clock ticking as mad.
Will be giving some fuel samples this week to Honda dealer, hope Honda will come up with solution ASAP

[nickxau]

Same issue here, 20K on clock ticking as mad.
Will be giving some fuel samples this week to Honda dealer, hope Honda will come up with solution ASAP

WTF!? I thought a solution was TO BE PROVIDED this month, NOT "to be tested"???

[BatRambo]

WTF!? I thought a solution was TO BE PROVIDED this month, NOT "to be tested"???

No Mate, this month we are providing fuel samples to Honda so they can come up with solution in the next few MONTHS. That is a complete joke, lets not mention the 50K I spend for my car

[VIDSEURO]

Gday Guys

Today a service adviser from Capital Honda in Phillip called to ask
me to bring the car next week Thursday as the Rep from Honda
will be applying a fix for the problem noise (ping).

I will post next week Friday and let you all know how it went.

The car has 8,500 km's and im floggin the guts out of it
and its producin the goods.:D

[eur001]

I received a call too. Will bring my car back Tuesday. Hope they hv the fix, not another testing.

[mcabut]

Please, please, please let us know what they do to your cars and whether or not the fix works. If the service department references a Technical Service Bulletin number please share that as well. I am in the states and my Acura TSX has this same problem. I am hopeful that the fix makes it to the US as well.

[BatRambo]

I received a call too. Will bring my car back Tuesday. Hope they hv the fix, not another testing.


Where about you guys from, which state. I called Honda dealer yesterday they said no fix is available, a call second dealer same story. NSW

[unity]

Please, please, please let us know what they do to your cars and whether or not the fix works. If the service department references a Technical Service Bulletin number please share that as well. I am in the states and my Acura TSX has this same problem. I am hopeful that the fix makes it to the US as well.

Our TSBs here seem a lot harder to get hold of here than they arew in the USA. You have the service express website which puts up all TSBs across the board. We don't have a web site here that does that. Everything here seems so secretive.

[Bobjones]

Ok people, as some of you know I have sold my Euro after 9 months of ownership. However, I thought it prudent to provide you all with the following information given that Honda are yet to find a fix etc.

Unfortunately, due to legal reasons I am not allowed to mention the workshop, the owner of vehicle or any other specific detail, however, I can give enough information that you, the Honda Accord Euro owning community, can make up your own mind when it comes to this problem.

Ok, here is the information that I have obtained DIRECTLY from the workshop whom undertook the tests as outlined in the following blurb.

A Honda Accord Euro owner, lets call him John, purchased an Auto Accord Euro in the last 3 months, since purchase, John has exceeded the initial "run in period of 1,000km's" and had the vehicle serviced by a Honda Dealership.

Subsequently, John has driven the vehicle maintaining extremely accurate log books for his vehicle, noting both the vehicle dispayed fuel economy and his calculated fuel economy, both of which did not differ materially. Over a couple of monthsJohn noticed no improvement in fuel economy figures, despite being an older gentleman whom drove the vehcile "like a grandma", economy in excess of 13 litres per 100km was consistently being recorded.

John, then took his vehicle to one of Australia's top performance workshops whom own and operate their own dyno. This workshop has previously dyno'd earlier Accord Euro CU2's. It was found that the latest CU2 (John's car), had a significantly high AFR ratio, showing a rich fuel mixture, higher than that of previously dyno'd vehciles. In the workshops opinion, the AFR ratios were the significant contributing factor to poor fuel economy, it was also noted that the power was less than previous Euro's of the same model.

It was noted by John that he had not experienced the now widely known "post combustion noise" as advised by Honda. Subsequent to John's visit to the workshop, a couple of other owners whom have recently purchase vehicles, post February 2009, are experiencing similar economy figures and are likely to obtain similar dyno readings when they go for testing.

Thus, as a former Euro owner, I would advise that it may be prudent for people to obtain independent testing on their Euro's, those with "post ignition noise" and those with poor fuel economy and see if there are any trends...IMHO I think there may be some...

Might also be an idea for those whom are having the "fix" performed on their vehciles, both, a pre and a post dyno run is not expensive...

[buddah51au]

I spent several hours on a Dyno at a friends workshop once i noticed the intermittent (so called Pinging noise) trying to duplicate it under varying load conditions, but unfortunately the post ignition noise has a mind of its on & cant be duplicated under any conditions. We did not take any notice of A/F ratioas i am getting outstanding economy, so that is not an issue. However i do have a base line figure for output at the wheels for future reference & will compare it when the fix finally comes out.

[evil R34]

supposedly a post combustion noise apparently a software patch and a new nock sensor is the fix

[yfin]

Bob - be careful comparing dyno numbers even for the same car. I have seen a Euro on the same dyno on the same day deliver 20kw more at the wheels. This was 2 manual CL9s.

And fuel economy at 13l per 100kms is less than what Wheels was getting for real world driving in the automatic CL9. They were getting 14s around town. Is the car with the fuel economy issue an automatic? As those numbers are not that unusual. What does the car do on the highway?

[buddah51au]

Bob - be careful comparing dyno numbers even for the same car. I have seen a Euro on the same dyno on the same day deliver 20kw more at the wheels. This was 2 manual CL9s.

And fuel economy at 13l per 100kms is less than what Wheels was getting for real world driving in the automatic CL9. They were getting 14s around town. Is the car with the fuel economy issue an automatic? As those numbers are not that unusual. What does the car do on the highway?

Dyno's regularly deliver different results due to ambient temperature, humidity and other factors.

As for fuel economy i can only post my own accurate figures, there are so many variables, the biggest being the human that is driving.

I have a CU2 Auto and keep a spreadsheet on all fuel used, 99&#37; of the time I fill at the same pump so the car is on the same angle, and fill until fuel is visible in the filler neck. After 10,955kms i have an average of 7.33 L/100km.
If I discount the first tank from the dealer ( i am sure it was not filled completely) best recorded is 6.9L/100km, worst recorded is 7.65L/100km.
Caltex Vortex 95 fuel used exclusively except for 1 tank of Mobile 98.

[eur001]

Hi all,
Sent my car in this morning for the "fix".
After the "fix", i tried to replicate the "pinging" sound on my way back(30 min drive). I am happy to say that i couldnt hear anything. Seems like they have found the fix.
I am going to observe for few more days. Will feedback here again. Stay tune...

[mcabut]

Did the dealer give you any indication regarding what they did to your car? I live in the states and am very curious regarding what they actually did to eliminate the ping. This is potentially very exciting news!

[adrianf]

notice any difference in power?

[denot]

Subsequently, John has driven the vehicle maintaining extremely accurate log books for his vehicle, noting both the vehicle dispayed fuel economy and his calculated fuel economy, both of which did not differ materially. Over a couple of monthsJohn noticed no improvement in fuel economy figures, despite being an older gentleman whom drove the vehcile "like a grandma", economy in excess of 13 litres per 100km was consistently being recorded.
...

Thus, as a former Euro owner, I would advise that it may be prudent for people to obtain independent testing on their Euro's, those with "post ignition noise" and those with poor fuel economy and see if there are any trends...IMHO I think there may be some...

Might also be an idea for those whom are having the "fix" performed on their vehciles, both, a pre and a post dyno run is not expensive...

I have a 2008 build/compliance one... my fuel figures is around 13L/100kms but starting to get the noise as well... I dont think this has to do with fix or change in fuel consumption...

[eur001]

Did another run for an hour tis morning. Same like yesterday, couldn't hear any pinging sound, no matter what rev.
I did pay some attention to power and consumption. Didn't feel lost of power(can be subjective, need more time). Fuel consumption remain similar level for me, around 9L.
We need more owner to share their experience after the fix before we can conclude anything.

[Bobjones]

Yes I know dyno's give different readings, but like any dyno in shoot out mode, if callibrated correctly adjusts for temperature humidity etc, the tension straps are also set to the same torque figures to reduce the "ramp up" effect that can cause higheer power figures. And let me say that the AFR does not lie, there was a material difference in readings, power figures some, and if I saw the SAME car on the SAME dyno read different in a day by 20kw, in a NA car then yes, I would not believe the dyno was set up properly, the SAME dyno and different car, who knows...and frankly irrelevant to what I have provided. I have know buy in to this anymore, just providing information, that you can assess anyway you want.

Oh and Buddah, I said in excess of 13l per 100, combined highway and city, and driving it like Miss Daisy, my car was returning under 10 atleast with similar driving, significantly different from the reported 8.9...

[denot]

Oh and Buddah, I said in excess of 13l per 100, combined highway and city, and driving it like Miss Daisy, my car was returning under 10 atleast with similar driving, significantly different from the reported 8.9...

Mine was 20% highway 80% city, and its giving 13L/100kms avg... driving like "miss daisy" give me avg 13.5L/100kms and rev high early then glide through the rest give me avg 12.5L/100kms

[Sludge]

Yes I know dyno's give different readings, but like any dyno in shoot out mode, if callibrated correctly adjusts for temperature humidity etc, the tension straps are also set to the same torque figures to reduce the "ramp up" effect that can cause higheer power figures. And let me say that the AFR does not lie, there was a material difference in readings, power figures some, and if I saw the SAME car on the SAME dyno read different in a day by 20kw, in a NA car then yes, I would not believe the dyno was set up properly, the SAME dyno and different car, who knows...and frankly irrelevant to what I have provided. I have know buy in to this anymore, just providing information, that you can assess anyway you want.

Oh and Buddah, I said in excess of 13l per 100, combined highway and city, and driving it like Miss Daisy, my car was returning under 10 atleast with similar driving, significantly different from the reported 8.9...

Maybe your mate 'John' needs to unhook his caravan.;)

Seriously though I get low 7's highway and high 11's around home with lots of short trips to work and back. I can't see what changes Honda could have made that would reduce power and increase fuel consumption by 30%. Not to mention the regulatory problems those sort of performance changes would give them.

[buddah51au]

There are so many variables that effect fuel consumption you will never get 2 cars achieving the same results. In my case I achieve approx 1L/100km less than my wife in our car, yet I am the faster driver. therefore the way the right foot is used plays a major part in the end result. I had an FD1 Civic Auto for over 60,000km & averaged 6.8L/100 over that time. After 11,000 in my CU2 Auto I find it averages 0.5L/100km more..... who would have believed that, i know i wouldn't, yet keeping an accurate spreadsheet doesn't lie.

Sure, i know the figures i achieve are totally irrelevant to most of you guys as all my driving is secondary rural roads with a little country town driving thrown in, but it does show what is possible given the right conditions.

A classic example is a trip I did to Bundaberg today, a round trip of 360km. I had done 204km local driving before left with the trip computer reading 6.8. Upon arriving home i have done 564km & still have well over 1/2 a tank remaining, trip computer is showing 6.4. If I allow for the .2L/100km inaccuracy of the trip computer that would give a true reading of around 6.6. Who wouldn't be impressed with that, i know i am. Add to that the computer is also showing 520 till empty which would give a range of 1084 from 1 tank of fuel, meaning 1,000km should be easily achievable. I am 100&#37; certain I will get past 900km on this tank with local driving until i refill.

I am happy to share my spreadsheet with anyone, just pm me your email add, but i wont be refilling on this current tank until next week at the earliest.

PS....I am now up to 879 km on this tank of fuel......still no sign of low fuel warning light......trip computer reading 176km till empty. AMAZING!

[evil R34]

Did the dealer give you any indication regarding what they did to your car? I live in the states and am very curious regarding what they actually did to eliminate the ping. This is potentially very exciting news!

its a software patch and a knock sensor in australia i guess it would b the same anywhere else

[Joystick]

I average around 8.0-9.5 here in Canberra including driving to work during peak hour. On a trip from Canberra to Sydney I was 6.4 there and back.

My ping is horrid and can be heard across the entire rev range and even when the radio is on. I think I've become highly attuned to the pinging sound now. :(

That being said I love the car and will hold off on the 'fix' until my 10k or 6 month service in September.

btw glad to see you back Buddah!

[yfin]

And let me say that the AFR does not lie, there was a material difference in readings, power figures some, and if I saw the SAME car on the SAME dyno read different in a day by 20kw, in a NA car then yes, I would not believe the dyno was set up properly, the SAME dyno and different car, who knows...

So what you are expecting to see is that 2 Euros dynoed should show the same AFR ratios?

[VIDSEURO]

btw glad to see you back Buddah![/QUOTE]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Likewise im glad to see you back Buddah. Your'e a good bloke and keep up the sharing of your knowledge with the rest of us apprentices

Ok Guys on Thursday my euro was delivered to CapitalHonda in Canberra
i picked it up in the arvo, and here is the classic case, the young ****y guy at the service counter, after asking him how is the pinger he knew which keys to give me, he said that (name) Honda Rep has done something and just handed me the keys. I did not get any paperwork or explanation as to what was done. The other senior chap tells me Honda will send you a letter letting you know what they did. So the bottom line is that the Honda Rep did not communicate much to the service department dudes and therefore these guys had nothing to tell me. (:eek:)

I have briefly driven the car and although it was pouring with rain on thursday
i was not able to hear the ping.

I should mention, and this is just my opinion im getting in the habit of warming up the engine within reason, as a cold engine will make the ping worse. (I think the VTEC likes to be warm) maybe you guys may think im talkin out my arse, its just an opinion ok...

Today driving to work i (thought) i heard the ping but cannot verify this altogether, as i have been a slightly parranoid dude with this euro, im sure you other pingers can understand this.

If you are taking your'e euro to have this problem fixed/corrected please ask them (service guys) to give you something, anything so that there is a written record of the event. As i said i didnt get it... Not to worry...

I apologise for the long winded post here, im in a good mood right now, and no i didnt have sex with the wife..just wanted to share my experience with ya's all...

On Saturday i will take the car for a good blast floggin it through the gears
to determine if ping still exists.

So whatever software or any other bizzo was applied to my euro on Thursday i believe it has significantly or altogether eliminated the ping shyte noise....

Look guys it's frustrating the car is pricey and what can i say i love it even with the noise, ive been angry, frustrated and anxious but im trying to find some middle ground, i also ride a motorbike maybe that's been a good remedy
for me...

I feel i have delivered good news and i hope you will have confident and favourable results when the Honda Rep arrives at your dealership.

On a different point, isnt the euro gearbox slick guys, bloody hell the stick
glides into position better than a porn stars shlong.:camera:

Ok i gotta get back to the footy its dragons V sydney city, im going for the dragons, coz they got wendell...:beer:

All the best and remember the best things in life are really free
like fresh air, sunshine yaddah yaddahh...

[eur001]

btw glad to see you back Buddah!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Likewise im glad to see you back Buddah. Your'e a good bloke and keep up the sharing of your knowledge with the rest of us apprentices

Ok Guys on Thursday my euro was delivered to CapitalHonda in Canberra
i picked it up in the arvo, and here is the classic case, the young ****y guy at the service counter, after asking him how is the pinger he knew which keys to give me, he said that (name) Honda Rep has done something and just handed me the keys. I did not get any paperwork or explanation as to what was done. The other senior chap tells me Honda will send you a letter letting you know what they did. So the bottom line is that the Honda Rep did not communicate much to the service department dudes and therefore these guys had nothing to tell me. (:eek:)


Same here, they didn't give me any paper or document showing what they have done to my car. And seems like only the service manager knows what going around. Those guys in the service department didn't know anything about the fix when I returned call to the manager who asked me to bring my car in for the fix.
It's been few days now since they "fix" my car. I am happy with the result. The pinging is virtually gone, although I heard a very short and mild clicking sound occationally during hard acceleration (I have this from my subaru liberty as well).
Please share more of your experience here. I will continue to share my life after the "fix" here :)

I have briefly driven the car and although it was pouring with rain on thursday
i was not able to hear the ping.

I should mention, and this is just my opinion im getting in the habit of warming up the engine within reason, as a cold engine will make the ping worse. (I think the VTEC likes to be warm) maybe you guys may think im talkin out my arse, its just an opinion ok...

Today driving to work i (thought) i heard the ping but cannot verify this altogether, as i have been a slightly parranoid dude with this euro, im sure you other pingers can understand this.

If you are taking your'e euro to have this problem fixed/corrected please ask them (service guys) to give you something, anything so that there is a written record of the event. As i said i didnt get it... Not to worry...

I apologise for the long winded post here, im in a good mood right now, and no i didnt have sex with the wife..just wanted to share my experience with ya's all...

On Saturday i will take the car for a good blast floggin it through the gears
to determine if ping still exists.

So whatever software or any other bizzo was applied to my euro on Thursday i believe it has significantly or altogether eliminated the ping shyte noise....

Look guys it's frustrating the car is pricey and what can i say i love it even with the noise, ive been angry, frustrated and anxious but im trying to find some middle ground, i also ride a motorbike maybe that's been a good remedy
for me...

I feel i have delivered good news and i hope you will have confident and favourable results when the Honda Rep arrives at your dealership.

On a different point, isnt the euro gearbox slick guys, bloody hell the stick
glides into position better than a porn stars shlong.:camera:

Ok i gotta get back to the footy its dragons V sydney city, im going for the dragons, coz they got wendell...:beer:

All the best and remember the best things in life are really free
like fresh air, sunshine yaddah yaddahh...[/QUOTE]

[VIDSEURO]

Ok Guys

Here is the latest from my end here in the ACT.
I drove the car Saturday and Sunday, floggin it through the gears and sad to report
the ping sound is still there.
Im now just quite over this whole thing, the euro pings but its still a good car.
The ping will not damage the motor, according to Honda so i guess be hard on your car.
If you blow it up maybe it will be replaced. (extreme view)
It back to the drawing board and the Honda reps around Australia.
Im not sure how the rest of you other pingers will go with your Honda reps when the dealership calls you up.
Look im extremely pleased with the euro and this is a flaw im kind of getting used to.
The ball is now back in the Honda court, and quite frankly i have more significant
matters to think about than just my car.
I sincerely wish all of you guys well for the future, we all have had our fair share of comments, its been entertaining and enlightening.
Lets stay positive and optimistic thats the best i can come up with now.

[buddah51au]

Ok Guys

Here is the latest from my end here in the ACT.
I drove the car Saturday and Sunday, floggin it through the gears and sad to report
the ping sound is still there.
Im now just quite over this whole thing, the euro pings but its still a good car.
The ping will not damage the motor, according to Honda so i guess be hard on your car.
If you blow it up maybe it will be replaced. (extreme view)
It back to the drawing board and the Honda reps around Australia.
Im not sure how the rest of you other pingers will go with your Honda reps when the dealership calls you up.
Look im extremely pleased with the euro and this is a flaw im kind of getting used to.
The ball is now back in the Honda court, and quite frankly i have more significant
matters to think about than just my car.
I sincerely wish all of you guys well for the future, we all have had our fair share of comments, its been entertaining and enlightening.
Lets stay positive and optimistic thats the best i can come up with now.

This is not the news we were all hoping to hear. I believe you are 1 of the first to have the software update / knock sensor replacement carried out, so it will be interesting to hear your dealers comments on this matter. If this is replicated throughout future upgrades on the CU2's with this problem I believe Honda could possibly be in for a major recall worldwide, something that is very rare for this manufacturer & quite possibly a first. All I can advise to people with this problem is to make sure your dealership is aware of the problem, and get an invoice from them that it has been noted. By doing this you are legally covered against this problem indefinitely, even after manufacturer warranty expires.

That being said it is a major disappointment for those that have this problem, so let's try to dig a little deeper into the problem and try to think what differences there are between the engine in the CL9, CU2, and other K24 variants that don't have this problem. From the little research i have done the bottom end of most k24 series engines is very similar, so I can't see the problem being in that area as they are a strong, robust bottom end. What have they done to the K24Z3 engine in the CU2 that is different - a total redesign of the cylinder head in search of a little more power to try to counteract the weight increase in making the CU2 bigger. The biggest change is combining the exhaust manifold within the cylinder head casting. Is this the way of the future, i guess that is now debatable, although they did the same thing with the R18A in the 8th generation Civic & had no such problems, but that is a low output engine in comparison. I believe the reason behind doing this is to meet new stringent pollution regulations that allow the Calalytic Converter to be mounted directly to the Cylinder Head where the exhaust gas is hottest allowing the cat to do its job more efficiently. I tend to think that it is in this area where the problem lies, but bear in mind it is only a thought.

Most of us tend to think that 148KW from a CU2 is nothing special, but to emphasize how far modern engines have developed, lets compare that with what everyone wanted in my younger days - a Toana SLR 5000 - I guess a lot of u would be shocked to know that in standard trim it had an output of 161KW - a difference of 13kw from an engine twice the size of the CU2.

Getting back to the "Pinging" problem we are having with our CU2 autos, I don't know how much it varies from 1 vehicle to the next, all i can say is that while I do have the problem, it is very intermittent & I can go hundreds of kms between hearing the noise. Is this because i tend to drive with economy in mind & don't give the car a hard time too often? Impossible to answer, but a possibility.

It would be interesting to hear other thoughts on this.

[BatRambo]

Ok Guys

Here is the latest from my end here in the ACT.
I drove the car Saturday and Sunday, floggin it through the gears and sad to report
the ping sound is still there.
Im now just quite over this whole thing, the euro pings but its still a good car.
The ping will not damage the motor, according to Honda so i guess be hard on your car.
If you blow it up maybe it will be replaced. (extreme view)
It back to the drawing board and the Honda reps around Australia.
Im not sure how the rest of you other pingers will go with your Honda reps when the dealership calls you up.
Look im extremely pleased with the euro and this is a flaw im kind of getting used to.
The ball is now back in the Honda court, and quite frankly i have more significant
matters to think about than just my car.
I sincerely wish all of you guys well for the future, we all have had our fair share of comments, its been entertaining and enlightening.
Lets stay positive and optimistic thats the best i can come up with now.

It's bit weird. On friday I spoke to my dealership, then second dealership and after that to HONDA Australia. All parties confirmed fix for PINGING issue is not available. I read few ppl in this forum receive their recall calls, r u guys sure there is fix (I mean something like fix) or someone here is confused (members in forum or HONDA AUstralia) the whole story sounds very very weird

[eur001]

Ok Guys

Here is the latest from my end here in the ACT.
I drove the car Saturday and Sunday, floggin it through the gears and sad to report
the ping sound is still there.
Im now just quite over this whole thing, the euro pings but its still a good car.
The ping will not damage the motor, according to Honda so i guess be hard on your car.
If you blow it up maybe it will be replaced. (extreme view)
It back to the drawing board and the Honda reps around Australia.
Im not sure how the rest of you other pingers will go with your Honda reps when the dealership calls you up.
Look im extremely pleased with the euro and this is a flaw im kind of getting used to.
The ball is now back in the Honda court, and quite frankly i have more significant
matters to think about than just my car.
I sincerely wish all of you guys well for the future, we all have had our fair share of comments, its been entertaining and enlightening.
Lets stay positive and optimistic thats the best i can come up with now.

Its been few days now since the update.
1st of all, i didnt get any document or paper from the dealer on the job done either. The service manager just told me that they updated the software and changed knock sensor. Other owners please share if you manage to get any black and white from the dealer after your "fix".
Hand on heart, i still hear very very mild pinging sound from the engine very very occationally. However, i am not going to borther much as similar ping happen to my subaru liberty occationally. I guess it does happen in cars...
I am currently monitoring the fuel consumption to see the effect of the fix. VIDSEURO, is your fuel consumption remains the same??
Finally, hopefully more owners can share their experience here once they done the fix.

[VIDSEURO]

I am currently monitoring the fuel consumption to see the effect of the fix. VIDSEURO, is your fuel consumption remains the same??
Finally, hopefully more owners can share their experience here once they done the fix.[/QUOTE]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am absolutely satisfied with mu fuel consumption figures.
On highway cycle the euro will give back between 850 to 900 kms
on a full tank of 95 or 98 RON.
I suggest use 98 RON if you can afford it, as it will be better for your car in the long term. (better economy ansd small power increase, debatable)
Yesterday the Principal of my dealreship called me to ask about my experience
with picking up the car last week.
I told her honestly but said she should not blame the service guys at the service counter. ( i dont want to get offiside with them)
They have their job to do and thats fine with me.
Ok this lady was very reasonable and understood fully my concerns and advised me she will feed back to Hond Australia that the fix, did not help my euro.
I just also want to raise this point, its very difficult not to be emotional about this whole matter, but be careful that you do not come across as arrogant,
abusive, and intimidating when you speak to your dealership.
Remember its not their fault, and they are in the hands of the big guys
Honda A.
If you give them a hard time it will back fire.
I said to the lady that im willing to take time off work and meet up with the Honda Rep and speak with him directly and try to give some feedback.
Anyhow guys, like all of you pingers im dissapointed but Honda now has to come up with the goods or they will be in deep shyte....

have a read of the link below i found it interesting...

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/stories/story/47799/P0/#comments