by far id say the 5zigen headers are bang for buck....
toda is good but like you said not much increase over 5zigen. toda is good for engine bling.
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by far id say the 5zigen headers are bang for buck....
toda is good but like you said not much increase over 5zigen. toda is good for engine bling.
Its basicly hytech design copy . I used to have it on my EG.Quote:
Originally Posted by .::F[L]Y::.
1 bad thing about buddyclub header , it doesnt clear AC lol
HHEHE.. i have no aircon so no probs for me:)
yep, buddyclub headers are surely up there with the best. only for the hardcore ;)
especially when tuned by Dyno Dave :cool:
I think there are a couple of other Hytech/SMSP knock off's out there as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by EG5
ALLMTR996
lol, that means you wanna keep the debate going... I understand, it's not one that people will give up on in a few posts...Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMTR996
anyways Locote, I'm not sure what the goal is with your car? I just read through a lot of this thread and maybe I missed it. Daily driver, quarter mile, track, etc? What else do you plan to do to the engine?
From my understanding a good header cannot be underestimated. But I know you can buy cams with the savings of a cheaper one. But if doing cams and increasing compression etc, maybe the 5zigen not allow as bigger gains as these other Hytech/SMSP style headers once you add the cams.
LOW 13s would be great for me N/A...
:D had to post had something worth while to say,from memory you have a US brand of header on your car if correct how did you find it.And Locote Dyno Dave is still coming over to Perth soon,he just has to get over a problem here at home then he will be over at the same time James from Hondata is going to Perth.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd076-chuck
ALLMTR996
It's given the car great top end, about 7k up (stock b18c7) it pulls much harder than stock without drop off into the rev limiter. It does go harder throughout rev range, but top end is where it really goes. For a daily driver I wouldn't have minded a bit more mid-range, perhaps that can be tuned in. So for me, a SMSP/Hytech style header with hi-flow cat and stock exhaust has worked great.
This DynoDave header doesnt look too different from my header (mine's not a DynoDave one, different brand)... not suggesting anything bad, rather that it would probably work quite well as per the dyno's in that thread. And in an attempt to be balanced, I have seen the Toda header deliver good results too, plus having inspected one first hand, it's quality does seem very good. :p
Sorry locote, never had anything to do with 5zigen. If you want to get low 13's, I'd suggest losing as much weight as possible from the car, then pursue power.
not taking sides but u guys gotta read the graph properly, don't just glance at peak power or what not cause theres only so much a bolt can give u without tuning, so keep in mind (not bagging out) 5zigen headers, but it may only be a couple of peak power hp behind toda but everywhere else toda is up too which makes the big difference. when adding other mods and especially tuning toda would win hands down
not taking sides so gonna if u choose either dyno dave or toda can't go wrong
There shouldnt be a debate between Dave and Toda AU. The fact is Dynodave has built custom headers for numerous customers that has yeild good result down the track, not necessary good dyno figure on the dyno as any1 can jipped dyno 'FIGURES', the real test would be down the 1/4 mile and the MPH it pulls. So respect to Dave. On the other hand, their is nothing wrong with Toda products. With the right tuner who can tune can gain from Toda headers.
Its not only the product that makes a car go quicker but a tuner who understands the product very well, the dynamics of how it work in order to gain the most out of the headers.
Thats one of the reason why we have chosen Dave's header becasue he 'BUILDS' his own headers therefore indicating he knows wats he doing when down to tuning. :thumbsup:
i been readin this thread all the way from page one, and im also trying to find the best headers to cat back system setup for an EK4, at the moment, i like the idea of Toda headers and cat with a mugen catback exhaust .. and sorry for being noob, but is it possible to fit Mugen B16B (ek9) parts as in the air intake, headers, exhaust cat etc, into the B16A ek4? without having to modify the parts themselves ? because if i can, i would like to have mugen from air intake, headers, all the way to exhaust.
Yes,Quote:
Originally Posted by andiiso
The only issue (small as it may be) will be that the headers will be 7mm lower than usual.
Every part will fit, no problem.
oh ok, thanks, and what would the downfalls and good things to having the headers 7mm lower then usual be? the air filter, catback and exhaust system fits, its only the headers lower by 7mm? and would i have to swap the AUDM cat out and put a JDM cat into it before i can fit the system? cos my brother had to put a JDM 98 onwards cat into his DC2 before he put his mugen catback n headers etc, he said he did it so that he didnt have to cut the mugen parts down because the AUDM cat is longer then JDM and does anyone know the gains or anything about the full mugen system in the Ek4?
i guess downfalls would be scraping them depending on how low your car is, but its only 7mm
ahhh ok, sorry for asking so much but i done research and havent been able to find out anything, but so far ive found that, i could go either (need some correcting please)
TODA headers (can explain difference between 4-2-1 and 4-1 please? sound, power, gains, mid, top end, low etc), (JDM cat, AUDM cat??? or the TODA cat), mugen catback exhaust (is it twin loop for the b16b .. b16a ?)
OR
mugen headers 4-1 (JDM AUDM cat ???), mugen catback exhaust (again, twin loop?)
this is all for the ek4. any opinions etc and corerctions please ?
also want the same info as andiiso but for dc2... please help us
4-2-1 is better for midrange 4-1 for top end.
Jdm cat or Audm i guess would pretty much be the same and restrictive, i think there could be a difference in size also.
The cat Toda can supply is High Flow.
i know for a fact that the AUDM dc2 cat is longer and JDM dc2 cat is smaller and if use JDM cat it will fit the mugen parts onto it perfectly widout any cuttin etc. but i think i know what i will put in, i probably go for the Toda 4-1 and the TODA cat and mugen catback etc, even though my car is not gonna be that low im still scared of the extra 7mm lower on the mugen headers, somethin just mite go wrong, anyway, thanks a lot people, btw im andii and i just recently bought a 95 ek Vtir nice to meet u all and thanks again for the help
You will need a new cat, the donut flange is larger on JDM exhaust manifolds.Quote:
Originally Posted by andiiso
Also cat length is different.
TODA headers are 4~2~1, ground clearence is not an issue.
If your EK4 is stock, you can expect same gains as previous dyno sheet.
ic, i saw before someone posted that 4-2-1 is more midranged without loss in the top end, and 4-1 is the top end gain, and i have always thought mugen was already mid ranged so was hoping for a combo that gives me a gain in the full rev range and not just top end or mid ranged, but more evenly spread etc. any opinions ? or corrections ? (btw sorry for being noob but i researched alot on buying a eg vti or si for conversion but ended up gettin a ek4 and havent done any previous research watsoever on it so im noob with the things on this car and ive been reading up as much as possible on it already)
If you get the right 4-2-1 u will gain all throughout the whole rev range!
but in saying the "right 4-2-1" i gone blank, what is the "right" one and what is the "wrong" one ... so far ive read up, xforce is bang for buck, toda is awesome and mugen spoon are fairly decent, and according to my friend who drove the dc5, he had xforce headers spoon N1 exhaust system etc, he was going for full top end power, so xforce is top end bang for buck im guessin, but thats for dc5. so yerr .. if anyone got any opinions on which system combo etc would give me a good full rev range gain on a '95 ek4 (b16a2) please post opinions .. thx heaps once again
The ones that Dave made for us, made power throughout the whole rev range... we gain 5kw midrange and 10kw top end. So it really depends on the design of the 4-2-1.
Unfortunatly your freinds DC5 is not a good example to use as a comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by andiiso
His cat back system is OK (SPOON) albeit a little loud.
However the X-Force header for the DC5 is not.
It is likey your freinds DC5 will make more power using the OEM header.
yer thought it may not be a good comparison, but he put on every spoon bolt on you can think of, like literally, he said so himself that he got everything he could for it (im talking about not caring about the money part of things, so didnt matter the price, he just got whatever spoon he could get) but couldnt fit the headers and had to use xforce because of the AUDM dc5 has the cat there or something along them lines, but he still got a good 150kw atw out of them parts.
but anyway back onto topic, still any opinions on a good gain full range system for ek4 ? and thanks Benson for the input, and also everyone else who has helped
if money ain't a thing for you....
If you wanna keep AC - Toda Headers, JDM cat or alternative, catback of your choice, most jap brand ones are similar.
If you don't run AC - Same as above but with Hytech/SMSP/BuddyClub Headers.
nah nah, money is a thing, its always a thing, but i was just using my friend as the example, btw, by installing the TODA 4-2-1 headers .. it takes out my A/C ??
With Toda headers your keeping your A/C.Quote:
Originally Posted by andiiso
Buddy clubs and hyteck headers you will need to remove your A/c
oh oh, sorry about that i read wrong, my bad
look if you dont want to fork out for toda headers and you dont want xforce headers, then 5zigen ftw.
hey, just a question... you don't need to remove A/C for the 5zigen 4-2-1 right (b-series engine)?Quote:
Originally Posted by 0098
correct:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by arron
Funny my toda headers bracket behind the sump didnt match up.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
That was directly related to you & your hip pocket.Quote:
Originally Posted by dc2rrrr
Scratch your head & try & remember...
Yeah, it's funny.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
When we supply the header & the cat, the rear bracket is not an issue.
Yeah funny. Prob not
What you want extra money to get a set of headers to fit 100%????
Scratch your head.....
dc2rrrr, I thought you of all people would know that not all headers, cat's and b-pipes match perfectly. If Adrian suggested one and you decided to go it alone, why compain publicly? You didn't have to buy his cat anyway, just get the dimensions you need. It's just annoying when people publicly complain like this, because when I spoke to Adrian about getting a Toda header, the first thing he said was you need to make sure it will fit with your cat. I'm sure he would have done the same with you...
The cat had nothing to do with it as I had a jdm cat. Who cares im over it.
Only reason I even posted was because he was baggin Dave and then said toda ones fit perfect yet mine didnt. And for $1400 one would expect it to.
I will shut up now SSSSHHHH
haha 1400? damn thats exxy dude... why not get normal jdm 4-1, they make relatively the same power for like 400 bucks and is a more perfect fit... haha
Yeh dave's headers a elite, worth the money and yeild much more gains. Some people need to go figure cost vs power gains before purchasing there headers.
dc2rrr sounds like you need a new set of headers hahaha.
dc2rrr needs a whole new motor........:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Benson
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc2rrrr
Yes you did have a JDM cat. That was my point exactly. You had a 98 Spec JDM cat.
Hence, at your request you have 98 Spec headers to suit & this is precisely why the rear bracket does not align.
You knew this at the time & didn’t have a problem with it.
Normally we supply the 96 Spec header, where rear bracket alignment is not an issue.
Regarding you having a problem with us,
If you had a real problem with your car,
You would have been in contact with us to have it rectified. – Not the case.
Further, you could have also contacted the MVIRA & had a mediator appointed to air your problem & have the issue rectified
Again, this is not the case.
That said, I suggest you aught watch what you say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
The JDM 4~1 header is the 98 spec header.
The rear bracket does not line up.
Very interesting and disappointing thread this one :thumbsup: OzHonda members you have all really shown your true colours yet again.
Regards Dyno Dave
i can feel the love.
Hey Dave's back on this forum!!
Then hopefully you read this :pQuote:
Originally Posted by DynoDave
Anything on the SOHC VTec front?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukezen27
Oh and I just PMed you
LukeZen
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukezen27
Regards Dyno Dave
Yeah everyone is asking why I am not here anymore so its time to come back and see whats going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
Regards Dyno Dave
Dave did u get my email????
Yep replying now.Quote:
Originally Posted by locote
Regards Dyno Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtercii
now we got some real technical advice
I will do my best but if a sh*tfight starts I will not get involved as its not the place to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by todas**t
Regards Dyno Dave
???? How do you figure this???Quote:
Originally Posted by todas**t
because you a complete and utter ball bag trent.....really i doubt there is anything seriously wrong with your engine.....but i can point one thing out that is not supposed to be in there ..... MY intake manifold! your a bullshit artist who uses peopole to get what you want...... call me when you finally grow some balls and you are in sydney.
(maybe a public dissing will get you ****ing head strait dipshit)
OHHHH SNAP!
^5 sexy time.
Trent & James come on guys leave this thread alone with your shi*fight sort it out,outside of this forum site.
Regards Dyno Dave
well mr trent (dc2rrrr) wont return my calls and or p.m's.
Ive tried to be very civil about it all but nothing...so i decided to put in the public forum.
I do him a favour by lending it to him so he can go up to queensland and race....and now he dicks me.....everyone beware of trent. He is not reliable nor anyones friend.
who is trent ffs
kk wer talking about headers here... make a new thread titled... 'trent'
need serious desent info about headers here pls post on topic
I think this header thread should remain about headers, everyone knows Trents car makes no power but thats another story.
ok,
your 100% right.
my input on headers from what i have seen:
-if you are worried about spending alot of money for a kw gain , go for some 4-2-1 hurricane headers ( i got a 5-7kw gain from them and so did the guy i sold them too i think).the only problem is they look a bit dingey and my mounting bracket snapped.
-If you want the best output from a blot on go the toda's......they are developed through testing rather then cheap copy's and they also look bang on, and we all need a bit of charictor in our engine bay's.
any body had experience with Fujitsubo 4-2-1 headers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by superR
i rather gain 7kw on this headers then gain 7kws on **** headers exhurst cams and ecu....
yeah no shit mate
wats ur point
my point is that 7kw on the header is goodQuote:
Originally Posted by preludacris
Whats the most KW ppl have gain from Toda headers?
Like before and after run on the dyno
???? Made no power!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TAKEN
Now runs just fine thanks to Bel...
But back to headers it all depends on what you want mid range or top end or bang for buck.
Top end go 4-1
Mid range 4-2-1
Bang for buck x-force
Header lengths and collector play quite a roll too as well as obviously the tune
7kw out of headers alone is pretty banm good really.
Good to hear your car is running right....Quote:
Originally Posted by dc2rrrr
As for headers, if u get the right 4-2-1 headers will will make more top end power compare to 4-1. I know mine did, 10kw top end 4-2-1 headers.
this is where people dont know wat headers work they just go for brand name just for the bling.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson
tell me about it i know some 1 only gained 5 kw on headers exhurst cams and tunable ecu, made big kw on the at the workshop who worked on the car and they put it on a different dyno made shit power just like a stock car....Quote:
Originally Posted by dc2rrrr
Some dynos tend to read lower than others. Other factors could have contributed to it making less power, not just the dyno. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by todas**t
if u put a stock car on, and a moded car on then u will know the difference and that was done......on the same dayQuote:
Originally Posted by riceball
dude everybody knows when tuning a car, that u focus on the b4 dyno run , and after dyno run - how much power increased, the shape of the curve, and AF ratio. A lot of differnt dyno's will read different power figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by todas**t
If his car was tuned on a higher reading dyno, and gained 10kw, and then later went on a different dyno and the peak rating was lower. he Still gained 10kw ...period. You cannot compare differnt dyno readings with each other. only as a general figure, as some will read more accurately than others, the Temperature may be diff etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by preludacris
if u put a stock car on, and a moded car on then u will know the difference and that was done......on the same day, stock car pulled 100 i mean dead stock and a moded car pulled 105 that with header exhurst cams and ecu, would u be cut after spending that much and gain a lil....
explain that
tru that ey.... :p
Todas***t does have a point
Ah wells.. some ppl just dont learn...Quote:
Originally Posted by todas**t
I guess they are loaded..
yes , u clearly would be cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by todas**t
But you sed the same car on differnt dyno's. not differnt cars on the same dyno.
anyways, other factors could come into play aswell, its not all about the peak figure. the modded car could be pulling heaps more in middle revs. but thats another story
1.obviously shit cams , shit headders and poor tuning! lol i would be majorly pised if i was the person your talking about!Quote:
Originally Posted by todas**t
2.i have come to the conclusion you have no idea baised upon your comments.
3. what makes you the dyno king?
this is a headers thread
1 yes a shit tunerQuote:
Originally Posted by superR
2.get your english teacher to explain it to u
3.coz im todas**t