Turbo Y4

Ok guys, im going to get a loan out, so its come time to boost the EK1. its going for a service some time this week, so while its there, im getting them to do a compression & leakdown test. here's my plan for it. LMK what you think

Stock D16Y4 block & head 170,000km
T25G from S13 SR20 (internal wastegate)
Edelbrock cast iron exhaust manifold (T25 flange, AC compatible, #15031)
Ebay intercooler & piping kit
GFB Mach 1 BOV
Precision 440cc injectors
Walbro 255lph intank
NGK iridium plugs
NGK leads
2.5" ac comp. down pipe
2.5" mandrel bent exhaust
Apexi AFC Neo

8psi daily, i probably wont go over that, but 10psi will be my max. nothing mind boggling, just something that takes good to street driving, work traffic, & maybe a few long distance travels. dunno what to expect power wise, but anything over 100kw im happy with.

I figure if the motor dies/blows/whatever, would be much cheaper to replace since there's alot of them out there. Im using the AFC because of the Y4s 'unique' wiring setup. another reason why i went for the T25G. since the AFC hack doesnt alter ignition timing, i have to manually retard the timing for boost, & when you retard timing out of boost, you lose power/performance, but from what info i have gathered, the T25G hits boost around the 2000rpm range. Boost should also compliment the Y4s longer gearing.

I know i can do this on a budget. Turbo & maybe the manifold i can buy second-hand, the edelbrock manifolds are hard to find used. but everything else will be brand new. I would much rather use new injectors instead of used, i know alot of the US guys use the DSM injectors with a resistor box, but id feel much safer knowing the injectors are new. the exhaust & dump pipe however, have got me a little worried concerning the price. i can get a 2.5" exhaust tubing kit from vrsexhaust.com, which is mandrel bent, i already have a cannon muffler, so that muffler i can re-use, however i may need a new resonator & cat. dump pipe will deff have to be custom, as i plan to keep AC & PS, hence the reason for a 2.5" dump pipe, much easier for the exhaust guys to fab up a 2.5" with not alot of room, than a 3".

i reckon u could do that on a 5k budget if u do the work your self, but it wont be as reliable

mate, with 5k i could do the internals aswell.

turbo $100
intercooler & piping $300
injectors $300
fuel pump $150
manifold $300
AFC $500
exhaust dunno

i think i could easily do this with 2k...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VTECnique

mate, with 5k i could do the internals aswell.

turbo $100
intercooler & piping $300
injectors $300
fuel pump $150
manifold $300
AFC $500
exhaust dunno

i think i could easily do this with 2k...

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yeah, I agree $2-3k is enough for a basic turbo setup

Apexi AFC Neo - dunno if that's the best option. I'd pay another few hundred and get a hondata or PFC, it will save you more headache in the long run

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

Apexi AFC Neo - dunno if that's the best option. I'd pay another few hundred and get a hondata or PFC, it will save you more headache in the long run

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do they make power fcs for d series ?

do a minime conversion and bore your block then slap the turbo on

how much of a loan you allowed to take out.

They are OBD dependent with the PFC for hondas. I beleive it should still work cos i've seen a s15 PFC wired into a b16a.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hisoka

do they make power fcs for d series ?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

Apexi AFC Neo - dunno if that's the best option. I'd pay another few hundred and get a hondata or PFC, it will save you more headache in the long run

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I know the AFC isnt the best option, however we are talking another 1-1.5k for hondata or chipped ecu. fact is, i can tune the AFC on the fly, saving a few more hundred on dyno/tuning time. the AFC splices into existing wiring, whereas hondata/chipped ecu need to add wiring, new dizzy, etc. imo just not worth it for a D16Y4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

do a minime conversion and bore your block then slap the turbo on

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If i were to fully upgrade to hondata/chipped ecu, which is needed to do mini-me, id probably do a swap. fact is im on a budget & can make do with the parts listed above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hisoka

how much of a loan you allowed to take out.

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Im hoping for 3k. this loan is strictly for turbo setup...

Can anyone give me a vague idea of how much a mild steel 2.5" downpipe would be? im also keeping internal wastegate. ive looked at the edelbrock cast iron exhaust elbow, but @ $180us, im sure i can find an exhaust shop to make me a downpipe for that much in aud...

> Turbo & maybe the manifold i can buy second-hand,

I think many D16 manifolds will be for a T3 flange.
Edelbrock would be one the few choices with a T25.

> Boost should also compliment the Y4s longer gearing.

I think the slightly shorter VTi Y5/Y8 gearbox plus a LSD should be at the top of the list.

> NGK iridium plugs

Save some cash. Go for the NGK copper plugs.

> i may need a new resonator & cat

Salvage one from a late model, performance oriented wreck.
Bound to be some smashed up v8 commodores about.

> T25G from S13 SR20

Fair choice.
T28 wouldn't go wrong either.

> its going for a service some time this week,

If you gonna boost it soon, why service it now?


> as i plan to keep AC & PS

c'mon, harden up.


1) Look for other posts on here or d-series.org about shimming the oil pump.

2) A morosso series 2 oil accumulator is cheap insurance.

3) If your ignition system is still original, it's probably a good idea for a new dizzy. No need for an upgrade, it's just an item which needs replacing and it'd be a good time.



> i already have a cannon muffler,
&
> hence the reason for a 2.5" dump pipe, much easier for the exhaust guys to fab up a 2.5" with not alot of room, than a 3".

With a good, straight through, rear muffler, and low boost, the stock, cat back, exhaust pipe should be an ok compromise.

A 2.0in pipe will flow 280cfm, which is just shy of your goals (150Hp = 330cfm). You just need to make sure the muffler itself isn't the choke point.

What's the inside pipe diameter of the cannon?

Nick.

You can get a PFC for around $800 second hand.
Other cheap option is to get a e-manage which are quite cheap and for a D series been done before on a few boosted applications.

Luke's Greddy kit was cheap for like 2k with all the goodies, barring injectors and intercooler. It ran with stock injectors fine up to 110kws or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

You can get a PFC for around $800 second hand.
Other cheap option is to get a e-manage which are quite cheap and for a D series been done before on a few boosted applications.

Luke's Greddy kit was cheap for like 2k with all the goodies, barring injectors and intercooler. It ran with stock injectors fine up to 110kws or so.

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Straight plug N Play too, install that day boost that night :thumbsup:

Only real mod needs was the oil pan drilled

Stock 240cc injectors were fine up to 120kw

Up for single slammers :D:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

Up for single slammers :D:D

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Till they blow like mine hahah

not really u pushed urs too much and its a kit.... ive seen many of custom kits here and states pushing 200+kw atw and nothing has blown or ripped u buy qaulity parts u know nothing will go wrong.. cant really say to rep or cheap shit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

not really u pushed urs too much and its a kit.... ive seen many of custom kits here and states pushing 200+kw atw and nothing has blown or ripped u buy qaulity parts u know nothing will go wrong.. cant really say to rep or cheap shit

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They can't make 200kw on stock internals bro

160kw is where the stock con rods brake

ofcourse not stock internals AHHAA i would love to see singe slammers put 200atw on stock for 1 hour haha

but i meant with good qaulity gear internal aswell

here is one for e.g

1994 Civic Hatch
-JG built D16z6
-JG cams, valvetrain
-JG ported head
-Arias 9:0:1 Pistons
-Sleeved
-F-Max turbo kit
-STR Intake Manifold
-JG 65mm TB
-Thermal 3" turbo back exhaust
-HKS BOV
-780cc injectors
-SX fuel pump
-MSD Ignition
-Haltech Stand-alone Fuel managment
-NOS nitrous kit

Car through down 418whp @ 22 psi and a 70 shot
408 whp @ 30 psi no Nitrous

30psi daily GAWDDDD :o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

ofcourse not stock internals AHHAA i would love to see singe slammers put 200atw on stock for 1 hour haha

but i meant with good qaulity gear internal aswell

here is one for e.g

1994 Civic Hatch
-JG built D16z6
-JG cams, valvetrain
-JG ported head
-Arias 9:0:1 Pistons
-Sleeved
-F-Max turbo kit
-STR Intake Manifold
-JG 65mm TB
-Thermal 3" turbo back exhaust
-HKS BOV
-780cc injectors
-SX fuel pump
-MSD Ignition
-Haltech Stand-alone Fuel managment
-NOS nitrous kit

Car through down 418whp @ 22 psi and a 70 shot
408 whp @ 30 psi no Nitrous

30psi daily GAWDDDD :o

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lol yeah

My was stock inners hahah

u should of did abit of work for the internals would of had a beast of a single slammer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

u should of did abit of work for the internals would of had a beast of a single slammer

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Yeah but the power brand sux on SOHC Turbos IMO

I thrashed mine for two years and 1/4 miles her heaps but never got any good times due to power lag

tbh custom turbo kits work wonders for d series would def smoke a b series boost :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

tbh custom turbo kits work wonders for d series would def smoke a b series boost :p

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Well I'll race any of em at the Creek...

NO MATTER what you do or how good the gear is SOHC power sux till boost so you don't move before 4000RPM

N/A Honda's with 20kw less power would smoke me

I mean don't get me wrong, I loved boosting round in my little D-turbo

honestly if any1 would want to run 10-20psi on d series vtece or non vtec i think all u would need is

CP Vitara pistons (76mm)
-Wrist pins and C clips
-Piston rings (Hastings or NPR)
-Timing Belt
-Water Pump
-ACL Rod Bearings
-ACL Main Bearings
-ACL or King Thrust washers

and for turbo BULLSEYE-POWER/BORG WARNER T3/T04e 57 trim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

honestly if any1 would want to run 10-20psi on d series vtece or non vtec i think all u would need is

CP Vitara pistons (76mm)
-Wrist pins and C clips
-Piston rings (Hastings or NPR)
-Timing Belt
-Water Pump
-ACL Rod Bearings
-ACL Main Bearings
-ACL or King Thrust washers

and for turbo BULLSEYE-POWER/BORG WARNER T3/T04e 57 trim

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Most of us know exactly what's needed and how to buy those parts you've listed...

Its the labor that's the killer IMO

http://fjdistributors.com/product_in...roducts_id=170

tbh if u know what to do it wont cost alot might aswell do it right the first time not second

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lukezen27

Straight plug N Play too, install that day boost that night :thumbsup:

Only real mod needs was the oil pan drilled

Stock 240cc injectors were fine up to 120kw

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at that rate, id say the stock injectors would be near maxxing out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

honestly if any1 would want to run 10-20psi on d series vtece or non vtec i think all u would need is

CP Vitara pistons (76mm)
-Wrist pins and C clips
-Piston rings (Hastings or NPR)
-Timing Belt
-Water Pump
-ACL Rod Bearings
-ACL Main Bearings
-ACL or King Thrust washers

and for turbo BULLSEYE-POWER/BORG WARNER T3/T04e 57 trim

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Even i know, the most weakest link in a d-series engine, is in fact the conrods. alot of the US guys use eagle, & i know fjt has manufactured some custom length ones to make up for the low compression height of the vitara pistons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lukezen27

Well I'll race any of em at the Creek...

NO MATTER what you do or how good the gear is SOHC power sux till boost so you don't move before 4000RPM

N/A Honda's with 20kw less power would smoke me

I mean don't get me wrong, I loved boosting round in my little D-turbo

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With such a small turbo, i should be in boost almost all the time im driving. it should hold good til redline aswell. i rarely take it to redline, 6k max...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

u should of did abit of work for the internals would of had a beast of a single slammer

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If it blows, then ill go all out, fact is its my first turbo setup, i wanna go easy on it. after all, its me daily & the misses drives it aswell. i dont want to take it to its limits.

hey i had a T25G on mine and swaped it for the GT28R turbo personally there was a vast power improvment just from putting this turbo on and would recommend spending the extra money on getting a good turbo.

what manifold do you plan on running?
i have a New AFC Neo F/S if your still chasing one :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nd55

I think many D16 manifolds will be for a T3 flange.
Edelbrock would be one the few choices with a T25.

I think the slightly shorter VTi Y5/Y8 gearbox plus a LSD should be at the top of the list.

Save some cash. Go for the NGK copper plugs.

Salvage one from a late model, performance oriented wreck.
Bound to be some smashed up v8 commodores about.

Fair choice.
T28 wouldn't go wrong either.

If you gonna boost it soon, why service it now?

c'mon, harden up.


1) Look for other posts on here or d-series.org about shimming the oil pump.

2) A morosso series 2 oil accumulator is cheap insurance.

3) If your ignition system is still original, it's probably a good idea for a new dizzy. No need for an upgrade, it's just an item which needs replacing and it'd be a good time.

With a good, straight through, rear muffler, and low boost, the stock, cat back, exhaust pipe should be an ok compromise.

A 2.0in pipe will flow 280cfm, which is just shy of your goals (150Hp = 330cfm). You just need to make sure the muffler itself isn't the choke point.

What's the inside pipe diameter of the cannon?

Nick.

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OK, ive seen a few ebay cast iron manifolds which claim to have T25 flanges. i could also get a mild steel log mani fabbed up for relatively cheap i hope.

Out of the D-series g/boxes, the Y1 has the best short gears. i want to stay with the Y4 box 'cause i know there's plenty out there to be had. ill be changing alot sooner anyway with boost...

Thanks, ill keep the copper plugs in mind. is there any particular reason why these over the iridiums?

I do also plan to change the dizzy to a new OEM unit. i'd have piece of mind knowing the ignition is working at its best.

right now i have a 2.25" press bent mild steel catback exhaust, 1 resonator & the cannon muffler. i pretty certain the inlet on the muffler is 2.5", though i could be wrong. Do you suggest getting a cat from a V8 commo, or would a V6 cat work just as good? Id much rather use mandrel bends for the exhaust, & since im going to that length may aswell change to 2.5"...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lookingforboost

hey i had a T25G on mine and swaped it for the GT28R turbo personally there was a vast power improvment just from putting this turbo on and would recommend spending the extra money on getting a good turbo.

what manifold do you plan on running?
i have a New AFC Neo F/S if your still chasing one :P

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ive been trying to find info of your setup to give some pointers. I actually have a few manifolds in mind. first choice would be the edelbrock cast iron manifold from the kit, second would be a mild steel log manifold, 3rd would be an ebay cast iron unit. If i can get someone local to fab me up a log mani, would much rather go that route, instead of buying the cast edelbrock unit & paying through the roof for shipping. if i can get a log mani made for around $300...

Im still pretty firm on the T25G, im sure the GT28R would be a huge improvement over the T25G, i can get my hands on one for reasonably cheap, im sure ill be happy with it, afterall, itd be a much better improvement compared to a stock Y4, right???

any ecu with this basic setup, looking at doing one just starting on my research now cheers

best ecu would be s200 or s100 or even proecu its all about tunning

btw is there a shop in aus that sells eagle conrods by anychance?

Look for a GReddy Log Manifold off (EG Civic 92-95) turbo kit

That's what I had they T2/T25 flange :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lukezen27

Yeah but the power brand sux on SOHC Turbos IMO

I thrashed mine for two years and 1/4 miles her heaps but never got any good times due to power lag

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what turbo were u using again.

EDIT. dw lol just read

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VTECnique

ive been trying to find info of your setup to give some pointers. I actually have a few manifolds in mind. first choice would be the edelbrock cast iron manifold from the kit, second would be a mild steel log manifold, 3rd would be an ebay cast iron unit. If i can get someone local to fab me up a log mani, would much rather go that route, instead of buying the cast edelbrock unit & paying through the roof for shipping. if i can get a log mani made for around $300...

Im still pretty firm on the T25G, im sure the GT28R would be a huge improvement over the T25G, i can get my hands on one for reasonably cheap, im sure ill be happy with it, afterall, itd be a much better improvement compared to a stock Y4, right???

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There prolly wont be any info on my setup caz i have never put any up :p but basically i had a T25G and even these on a SR blacktop would boost up at about 2200RPM and our motor is smaller so i would get full boost about just under 3000RPM mark i am now waiting a few hundred RPM more for the same boost on the GT28R but it hits alot harder than the T25G although it was a good turbo and you will be happy with it.
just make sure that its in good condition with little shaft play and if there is any end float just look for another one, they usually sell for between 200-350 mark for a good one.
My manifold is a custom made steam pipe manifold i would recommend these as they dont crack, but for $300 thats pretty good price and would just run with that for the moment.

run with the 2.5 inch and get a new high flow cat i get the magnaflow ones for about $260 brand new they have a huge CFM rating rather than a stock cat from a commo those motors are dirty same with the falcons and i know some tuners that put them into cars to get them through emissions because of that. the 2.5 inch resonators are different in price in regards to how long they are abut range from 80-100 or so and you can reuse your cannon if its a 2.5 inch inlet
most of your power is going to come from your exhaust after turboing it.

> With such a small turbo, i should be in boost almost all the time im driving. it should hold good til redline aswell.


Not gonna happen.
A T25 will have about 2-3000 rpm power band
A T28 will be better till redline but spool a bit later.

Listen to what Luke's been saying.

> Im still pretty firm on the T25G, im sure the GT28R would be a huge improvement

All of us fooling with d16's are doing it due to budget reasons.
The GT28 is a new unit and thus $$$$.
Any second hand T28 will be nice.
Small frame T3's (45 or 50trim is perfect), or Nissan R32/33 GTR turbos will be at the very top end of your goals.
SAAB T3's are supposed to be cheap and might be worth looking in to.

The smaller turbos off WRX's would probably be nice, but I've only researched the Garret series.

> Do you suggest getting a cat from a V8 commo, or would a V6 cat work just as good? What ever fits the pipe you going use.
Late model vehicles tend to have higher spec cat converters. As long as it's sized appropriately it'll do the job.

> Id much rather use mandrel bends for the exhaust,
That's a lot more money.

A good down pipe to your current exhaust system should be plenty.


> so i would get full boost about just under 3000RPM

I think this is optimistic.

Perhaps one of the variable vane Garret turbos (GT2056v) is more appropriate for your goals?
Mercedes sprinter diesel vans and nissan 4x4's come to mind.


Nick.

PS. I think the T25 is perfect for your original goals, just your expectations are a bit optimistic.
A T28 will probably start to max out the integrity of the motor and need more cash spent on the exhaust, etc.

If he hunts around you can pick up a T28 off an S14 for around the 300-400 mark in good nick and even cheaper a GTR turbo off an R33 these are a T28 just the comp housing is a little smaller and only rated at about 300hp and they use the T2 type flange

if you want to go T3 just look at a R33 stock turbo these are T28 with a T3 flange on them and you can pick these are everywhere!

as a basic idea i was quoted 200-250 for mandrel bent cat back exhaust for my EK with extra flanges put in, the dump is going to cost around the $250 mark and if you that strap for cash just use the stock cat and punch it out.

either way the basic principle of a turbocharger exists on the fact that it has to build up boost just wait for the 3000 rpm to come to get your power :P

if your on a budget, a secondhand T28 would be ok. Should be perfect.
Just with log manifolds, just make sure they are a/c & p/s compatible, some aren't

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nd55

> With such a small turbo, i should be in boost almost all the time im driving. it should hold good til redline aswell.


Not gonna happen.
A T25 will have about 2-3000 rpm power band
A T28 will be better till redline but spool a bit later.

Listen to what Luke's been saying.

> Im still pretty firm on the T25G, im sure the GT28R would be a huge improvement

All of us fooling with d16's are doing it due to budget reasons.
The GT28 is a new unit and thus $$$$.
Any second hand T28 will be nice.
Small frame T3's (45 or 50trim is perfect), or Nissan R32/33 GTR turbos will be at the very top end of your goals.
SAAB T3's are supposed to be cheap and might be worth looking in to.

The smaller turbos off WRX's would probably be nice, but I've only researched the Garret series.

> Do you suggest getting a cat from a V8 commo, or would a V6 cat work just as good? What ever fits the pipe you going use.
Late model vehicles tend to have higher spec cat converters. As long as it's sized appropriately it'll do the job.

> Id much rather use mandrel bends for the exhaust,
That's a lot more money.

A good down pipe to your current exhaust system should be plenty.


> so i would get full boost about just under 3000RPM

I think this is optimistic.

Perhaps one of the variable vane Garret turbos (GT2056v) is more appropriate for your goals?
Mercedes sprinter diesel vans and nissan 4x4's come to mind.


Nick.

PS. I think the T25 is perfect for your original goals, just your expectations are a bit optimistic.
A T28 will probably start to max out the integrity of the motor and need more cash spent on the exhaust, etc.

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Honestly nick, i dont really know what to expect out of the T25, ive got my eye on a rebuilt one for a great price. i was looking at the TD04L from a WRX, but the flange is completely different, so a custom manifold is required, but since im thinking of using a custom manifold anyway...

exhaust diameters also effect spool time. a 2.5" will spool quicker compared to a 2.25".

Remember, i chose the T25G for its smaller, quicker spool characteristics. keep in mind im using this with an AFC, so i have to retard timing which will kill me out of boost, hence the reason for a smaller turbo. its my daily driver, again if im not happy with the T25G, i can always go to a T28. I do understand you guys are just giving me your opinions, which i appreciate, but i have to work with limits in mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lookingforboost

If he hunts around you can pick up a T28 off an S14 for around the 300-400 mark in good nick and even cheaper a GTR turbo off an R33 these are a T28 just the comp housing is a little smaller and only rated at about 300hp and they use the T2 type flange

if you want to go T3 just look at a R33 stock turbo these are T28 with a T3 flange on them and you can pick these are everywhere!

as a basic idea i was quoted 200-250 for mandrel bent cat back exhaust for my EK with extra flanges put in, the dump is going to cost around the $250 mark and if you that strap for cash just use the stock cat and punch it out.

either way the basic principle of a turbocharger exists on the fact that it has to build up boost just wait for the 3000 rpm to come to get your power :P

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if you dont mind me asking, how much did you pay for your steam pipe manifold? my cat has got some honeycomb missing cause a few years ago there was a rattle in the muffler, took the silencer off, & out came this stick of honeycomb from the cat!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

if your on a budget, a secondhand T28 would be ok. Should be perfect.
Just with log manifolds, just make sure they are a/c & p/s compatible, some aren't

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Yes, i do understand in order for log mani's to be ac ps compatible, its all about the turbo flange placement...

steampipe manifold is about $800-1000. I got a full Ram with ceramic coating.
Will post it up when i redo my build thread.

damn, how much would o expect to pay for a mild steel log manifold?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VTECnique

damn, how much would o expect to pay for a mild steel log manifold?

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I think you'll find out its going to cost far more than you think

Not just the manifold but everything lol

and i highly doubt u can make a decent reliable turbo basic setup for 2-3k mate... u can with shit parts that will fall apart.

well as he said manifold and turbo going to be second hand, if he was gona gonew turbo why would he even bother?

Read my old thread
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79182

GReddy Kit
$2080

FMIC
$150

FMIC Pipping
$190

Install
$600

Total
$3020

Plus this kit is very well built and I doubt I'll have to replace anything for years...

I just pushed to hard hahah

if any1 is going or getting cams.. i would highly suggest bisi cams... apartently they work wonders and in the states all uses them :)

how much we looking for the cams?

$260.00usd

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

and i highly doubt u can make a decent reliable turbo basic setup for 2-3k mate... u can with shit parts that will fall apart.

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all the parts i have listed, ive done my research on, the only 'shit' part of this whole build is the motor...

3k easy bud, second hand - turbo, manifold, exhaust elbow, & AFC. brand new - downpipe, exhaust, fuel pump & injectors, oil feed & return, pod filter, intercooler & piping, bov, etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeyG

$260.00usd

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Bisi's cams are regrinds, by the time you factor in shipping, your better off getting a local regrind...

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i have the sam ideas but i got a jdm garrett d16 turbo and cast mani with pipes an exhaust to cat ..still got jap newspaper in the pipes lol

still trying to find specs on the turbo itself

re the ecu im looking at useing a unichip
exhaust i already have a 3" stainless mandrel catback just need new cat

better sticking to stock CAMs, save your money to spend on the turbo kit itself.
Your gonna have enough trouble with the turbo build without playing with the CAMs

just rem to leave about $800 for a tune that's gonna be the most important part of it all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

just rem to leave about $800 for a tune that's gonna be the most important part of it all

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Since ill be using the AFC, i can tune it myself without the cost of expensive dyno & tuning time. An air/fuel gauge will let me know if i need to alter anything...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

better sticking to stock CAMs, save your money to spend on the turbo kit itself.
Your gonna have enough trouble with the turbo build without playing with the CAMs

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i know tighe does regrinds for the D16, but not sure on price, & may have to upgrade to springs & retainers. its something im looking at doing down the track, just not right now, exactly what you said i wanna focus all on the turbo build...

i sense tears down the track into this build

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Originally Posted by Riced_Civic

i sense tears down the track into this build

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:thumbsup:

Show my one turbo D built or not that has not blown up in Au.....

Every the best high cost builds have gone pop here in Australia

There are some getting round but there not driven much lol

tru, but i mean that hes going to be spending more than what he wants cos hes going to be constantly fixing or replacing old parts.

id say just spend a bit more now and save some trouble

Dont know if you have the turbo yet or not but in my honest opinion a gt28r is much better than the t25 and i would say would spool around the same time but hit much harder. T25 is thrust bearing and gt28r is dual ballbearing. There is a huge difference.

Either way not trying to sell it on ya but im selling a GT28r as you can see in my signature.

you can use your standard injectors and fuel pump for the moment to save you some cash caz your not going big boost, i had a T25G on my car and you will expect to see about 3000 RPM before boost comes on but this is what a normal turbo car has to wait till.

my manifold was about $800

Take the AFC to get a tuner to tune it though will only cost about 200-300 for it then you know its all sweet !

and luke mine is still here :P

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Originally Posted by lookingforboost

you can use your standard injectors and fuel pump for the moment to save you some cash caz your not going big boost, i had a T25G on my car and you will expect to see about 3000 RPM before boost comes on but this is what a normal turbo car has to wait till.

my manifold was about $800

Take the AFC to get a tuner to tune it though will only cost about 200-300 for it then you know its all sweet !

and luke mine is still here :P

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I know Ryan but you have like 7 other cars to drive if she pops :p

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Originally Posted by VTECnique

Since ill be using the AFC, i can tune it myself without the cost of expensive dyno & tuning time. An air/fuel gauge will let me know if i need to alter anything...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Riced_Civic

i sense tears down the track into this build

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yeh.........me too...............

sorry if i havent red everything but AFC for a turbo conversion sux balls.
the amount you are going to trim away from the injector when not on boost is alot. timing will advance there. If you pull it back at the dizzy then off boost performance suffers and it really will drive like a dog. Plus AFC cannot accurately tune via load. it tunes via tps when is never a good idea with a turbocharged car. you need to tune via kpa/psi etc.\
Ill give you an example you can go up a hill using 50% tps and it makes full boost. But you can go the same tps on flat ground at the same rpm and make no boost. So how do you trim it. Its rubbish. After all the time and moeny invested the engine is not going to last lost running on crap management and to be honest no good tuner will want to tune a boosted car using a piggyback that can only go TPS vs RPM.
On my setup I had an AFC NEo in there from when it was NA. Keep in mind it was already in the there so I thougth lets see how shit this thing is. It didnt take long (a week) to realise its crap to tune and there no way to tune what I want when I want. So I went a standalone ECu, made a plug in loom for it and never looked back. Put timing where you want. Put fuel accurately where you want.

You have chosen some sensible parts up until the management choice.
Do that right and you will not have a mission in tuning the thing.

since you got a honda just get a chipped ecu. or get some parts to chip it yourself from xenocron.
If you use a chipped ecu you can have datalogging capabilities when will help you alot. THis is if you want to road tune the car yourself or with the help of someone else.

An air fuel gauge alone will not be of any help in tuning the car reliably. Those air fuel gauges that run off the narrowband signal are worthless for anything other than for the ECu to run closed loop o2 to get 14.7 at cruise/low load conditions for fuel economy.
What you need is a wideband o2 sensor kit. They will come with a controller and wideband o2 sensor at the least. Whether the controller has inbuilt datalogging depends on what you get. But If you use an ECU with datalogging capabilities you do not need to worry but the controller have such features.
Innovate got some
PLX
AEM
NGK got one
TechEdge
I personally use a TechEdge and it does the trick.

DUDE i cannot STRESS ENOUGH ON TUNNING..

u want reliablity??? you want a fun and safe turbod d series single slammer... invest in tunning.. INVEST INVEST INVEST... jesus.. please tell me what afc is going to do..

buy proecu or hondata ... tune that beast slap on the road.... but dont listen to us saying you need to invest in tunning.. soo please go ahead of tunning with afc and i give u.. 2-3months till ur engine falls breaks apart btw im not having a go at you.. i think every1 would agree

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Originally Posted by Lukezen27

I know Ryan but you have like 7 other cars to drive if she pops :p

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hmmmm tou chay :p

regardless i have seen many cars tuned with an AFC hack and they do work they are not better then a full computer and i will not dispute that but with a good tuner that knows what they are doing as long as he runs low boost then there is no reason why it wont work and reliably as i have seen it in the past work just keep it to 5-6psi and should be ok

afc hack was a neat little trick for DIYers on a very tight budget about 150 years ago now(well in technology years anyway).

it was very hit & miss,a lot of the cars not ever being able to deal with the timing issues,especially the part throttle timing,let alone the top end.If this car is gonna be pushed to 8-10psi like he is saying,thats when things started to get messy,above that, 11psi plus, it got really messy.

seems the only people messing with it these days,either had one lying around in the garage or just cant bare to not have a pretty little colour screen on the dash.there are so many other, better,just as affordable solutions these days,why would u bother.........

i'll grant one thing.....u will learn a lot & fast at tryin to get tha afc hack up & running decently,but at the price of a new motor,thats $500 odd bucks u could of bought a better management system with in the first place,plus the time & hassle in swapping it in....

totally agree. There are not that many tuners out in AU who will do the AFC hack cos its risky to them also. If something goes wrong the tuner gets blamed first.

I know D series motors go for about $300 but its the time & wasted effort

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Originally Posted by CRXer

afc hack was a neat little trick for DIYers on a very tight budget about 150 years ago now(well in technology years anyway).

it was very hit & miss,a lot of the cars not ever being able to deal with the timing issues,especially the part throttle timing,let alone the top end.If this car is gonna be pushed to 8-10psi like he is saying,thats when things started to get messy,above that, 11psi plus, it got really messy.

seems the only people messing with it these days,either had one lying around in the garage or just cant bare to not have a pretty little colour screen on the dash.there are so many other, better,just as affordable solutions these days,why would u bother.........

i'll grant one thing.....u will learn a lot & fast at tryin to get tha afc hack up & running decently,but at the price of a new motor,thats $500 odd bucks u could of bought a better management system with in the first place,plus the time & hassle in swapping it in....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CRXer

afc hack was a neat little trick for DIYers on a very tight budget about 150 years ago now(well in technology years anyway).

it was very hit & miss,a lot of the cars not ever being able to deal with the timing issues,especially the part throttle timing,let alone the top end.If this car is gonna be pushed to 8-10psi like he is saying,thats when things started to get messy,above that, 11psi plus, it got really messy.

seems the only people messing with it these days,either had one lying around in the garage or just cant bare to not have a pretty little colour screen on the dash.there are so many other, better,just as affordable solutions these days,why would u bother.........

i'll grant one thing.....u will learn a lot & fast at tryin to get tha afc hack up & running decently,but at the price of a new motor,thats $500 odd bucks u could of bought a better management system with in the first place,plus the time & hassle in swapping it in....

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I knew id get flamed for using the afc hack. so here's my reasons.

chipped ecu $200ish
harness EK1 to OBD1 $250
OBD2 dizzy $100

tuning $300+ plus the fact i have to drive the car down south from cairns to get it tuned from a reputable honda tuner
OR
moates ostrich 2 eprom emulator, usb datalogging cable, innovate LC1 wideband controller, laptop $1000ish to tune it myself

AFC Neo $500 & the ability to adjust settings without any addons. I know its not the best, but ive heard good & bad stories about them. i guess its something im willing to take a chance on, because if i do blow the engine, $200-300 for a block.

iced - timing will advance there. If you pull it back at the dizzy then off boost performance suffers and it really will drive like a dog.

again, a reason for such a small turbo, is so it spools up quicker in the rev range to make up for out of boost timing...

If ur gonna use the AFC without any "addons" then your gonna limit your adjustability to just tricking the ECU out of seeing boost(u could prob achieve the same result with a $2 potentiometer from jaycar) & just hoping the larger injectors line up well with the stock fueling maps.

also the faster u spool onto full boost the quicker your gonna find out where the limitation is in dealing with the stock timing,unless u just adjust your driving style to avoiding those parts of the timing maps,u'll prob have to dial like 8deg off the dizzy to get around it,not pretty.

btw not flaming u dude,just want to see u get some decent results,if u dont like my opinions,just ignore them,problem with boost is it goes pop real quick when u get it wrong,maybe if u backed down your expectations on the boost limit,u'll get something going half decent.

just keep it to a nice and safe 5-6 psi and you can use the stock injectors and get the supporting mods around it setup right and it will be a great power improvment over the stock
I am pretty sure luke was using stock injectors and was running his D at 11psi but i would just get a bigger fuel pump to be on the safe side.
I would use that bit of saved money to get a good quality high flow exhaust setup and no muck around with cats from other cars etc dont get the exhaust right and even if it has injectors etc it wont make as much power as having a good exhaust on it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lookingforboost

just keep it to a nice and safe 5-6 psi and you can use the stock injectors and get the supporting mods around it setup right and it will be a great power improvment over the stock
I am pretty sure luke was using stock injectors and was running his D at 11psi but i would just get a bigger fuel pump to be on the safe side.
I would use that bit of saved money to get a good quality high flow exhaust setup and no muck around with cats from other cars etc dont get the exhaust right and even if it has injectors etc it wont make as much power as having a good exhaust on it

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Other way round lol

I used the stock 240cc for a while but they started to fade round the 115/120kw mark.

I was running RC 440cc when at 11/12psi

Its the pump you can save on as the stock pump can handle 300hp there abouts... (Stock D16Y1) not sure if the Y4 rocks the same....

And yeah as Ryan says, a good 2.5" high flow exhaust is a must!!!

In fact that should be the first thing on your list IMO

the ITR pretty much maxed out the 240's its also around the 115-120kW mark & its NA!

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Originally Posted by Lukezen27

Other way round lol

I used the stock 240cc for a while but they started to fade round the 115/120kw mark.

I was running RC 440cc when at 11/12psi

Its the pump you can save on as the stock pump can handle 300hp there abouts... (Stock D16Y1) not sure if the Y4 rocks the same....

And yeah as Ryan says, a good 2.5" high flow exhaust is a must!!!

In fact that should be the first thing on your list IMO

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sorry dude lol i just like the idea that the pump is new and working to full capacity as an old worn pump mightnt be as glld thats my theroy anyway, mine are stock for the moment and sitting fine at 6psi but they are coming out soon:p

luke did the RC's fit straight into the fuel rail of the D and then straight into the B?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lookingforboost

sorry dude lol i just like the idea that the pump is new and working to full capacity as an old worn pump mightnt be as glld thats my theroy anyway, mine are stock for the moment and sitting fine at 6psi but they are coming out soon:p

luke did the RC's fit straight into the fuel rail of the D and then straight into the B?

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Not straight but close too..

Just had to use some bits of then B's rail and bits off the D and all working out...

Though Adrian did redo em so maybe not as good as I thought lol

The pump is only very cheap anyway so yeah might as well upgrade :)

yeah pump no probs, since im going to the extent of changing pumps, id also like to do the injectors. i could always use 444cc GTR injectors, but either a resistor box from an 88-91 civic or resistors are required, & also additional wiring, save me a bit but more work. i think im better off with brand new items...

& yeah, a 2.5" exhaust is high on my list. only thing im worried about, is the dump pipe, the space available between the turbo outlet & ac compressor isnt much, & to save a bit of cash, i was either going to find a used edelbrock dump (hard to find), or an OEM nissan fwd dump pipe, but am unsure whether it will fit or not. trial & error i guess...

Another couple if ignition/ECU options for you.

1. A water injection kit or DIY.

2. Convert to odb1 and download one of the existing Chrome D16 turbo ROM's.

There's a few different ones people have uploaded which have worked fine. I'm sure you can find a similar setup.

This saves you the need for an emulator and tuning time, however if you decide to do so later, it's easy.

If using a safe boost level (< 0.5 bar) everything should be sweet.

> i could always use 444cc GTR injectors,

I've very recently read that Honda KXX series injectors flow quite poorly. However they have a fine screen place over the injector pintle to help atomise the fuel.

If you delicately remove the screen, they flow 500cc.

Just a rumour... Anybody know if they fit D16's injector plug or impedance specs?


Nick.

PS. I'd offer to burn the eprom, but my stuff is in boxes. I'm in the middle of a moving house. Damn Sydney housing prices!!!

the engine management is realy going to make or break your setup. And lets just say if it doesnt break it then it wont really make it either.
you can spend money on injectors and a new fuel pump blah blah blah but if you skimp on management you will regret it.
you say a good tuner will be able to tune it. yes they can. ask them if they recommend it. hell no. Good tuners dont like work with shit built cars. WHY? because when shit breaks it makes them look bad. The engine to start with runs a MAP sensor to calculate the fuel and timing map in the first place. Now tuning an NA engine with a tps only based piggyback has limitations. Most people will jsut tune for max load which is 100kpa in an NA engine. Now you got another 50-60kpa of load. You will have to tune very rich to bandaid the apparently problem with the AFC HACK because for the same throttle position the engine can make different boost depending on if it is going up a hill or not.
Tuning a boost car with a thottle position based air fuel controller is stupid.
Let me say that if you are going out to spend $500 on a brand new AFC Neo you are very silly. Some guys have tried to replace the tps signal with the MAP sensor signal so you can tune the engine with respect to load but it will not give you a very wide spectrum to tune for boost.
In this day and age a chipped ecu is the best way to go for Hondas.
Do it once and you will be very satisfied that your engine wont throw a rod out the block with boost it up a hill on half throttle.


If you have already made up your mind then whats the point. Good advice gone to waste.

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=137901

sounds good, end of the day its up to u.