Mugen Airbox

My mugen airbox just arrived, will give u guys an review after I got it done in the weekend.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2776/1001101qp0.jpg

$#@%!

dayum cant wait.. looks maad! =P

big $$$$$ there i suppose well done should sound mad

dayem!!! how much and where did u get it from???

%#@^@#$!

$#$##$#$#!!!! :O

Very nice :)

nice one, let us know how it performs !

very nice intake kit

Is that an air scoop that is meant to direct air from the centre air scoop under the numberplate?

In for vids. Heck, everyone get your vids ready, let's have an Euro intake shootout!

Nice pick up :cool:
Post installation sound clip please :thumbsup:

i will
if anyone want a clip.. someone pls record for me =)

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Originally Posted by TypeG

i will
if anyone want a clip.. someone pls record for me =)

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i'll record for you, but you fit the mugen to mine? :D

really nice intake looks like :D $$$?

Sweet....

around 1k

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Originally Posted by TypeG

around 1k

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Ouch.... but that's dry carbon fibre, right? Then it's about that price. Same for the GruppeM.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Ouch.... but that's dry carbon fibre, right? Then it's about that price. Same for the GruppeM.

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yes it is dry carbon fibre but i do hope it is plastic as it will be cheaper =)

You're spending spree for your car now hehe i'll record for you if you want.

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Originally Posted by Atjo

You're spending spree for your car now hehe i'll record for you if you want.

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you are as well =) and a lot more to come after my trip :p

yeah we may come out to meet up sometimes next week hehe

the mugen box scoop air from the centre?

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Is that an air scoop that is meant to direct air from the centre air scoop under the numberplate?

In for vids. Heck, everyone get your vids ready, let's have an Euro intake shootout!

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That air scoop rams air from the radiator area to the front wheel well feeding the intake cool air.

This is what it sounds like on my mate's euro (short clip):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxstqcORhyw

your car is gonna be the most JDM and bling Euro in Australia.. =p

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Originally Posted by sodaz

That air scoop rams air from the radiator area to the front wheel well feeding the intake cool air.

This is what it sounds like on my mate's euro (short clip):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxstqcORhyw

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that's it... DIY job for my comptech ^^ haha

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Originally Posted by BusterSonic12

that's it... DIY job for my comptech ^^ haha

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Not a bad idea actually. I want to do something like that for my comptech icebox too. But the ducting thing is a complicated shape and it won't be easy to replicate.

^^ You don't have to use curved shapes. Just use sharp angles of around 45º.

this is the new design from Mugen
not sure what is the different but that's what the shop said

$1K for that? Goodness I wish I have the big bucks in my account :D
Anyway congrats on your purchase, it's definitely worth it. Looks hot too! Now let's bring on the sound clip when it idles and when the vtec kicks in :D

Gasper... like always.. jealous =.=

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Originally Posted by BusterSonic12

Gasper... like always.. jealous =.=

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seems like u are the one i should jealous..... all my mod add up is only the price of your car... when i am in high school, i dunno what is car mod :(

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Originally Posted by TypeG

this is the new design from Mugen
not sure what is the different but that's what the shop said

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From the pics it looks like the usual Mugen kit. I'm not sure what's new about it too.

If you break it or scratch it... I'll CRY!

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Originally Posted by aaronng

^^ You don't have to use curved shapes. Just use sharp angles of around 45º.

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I sense the "ghetto" spirit there haha. :)

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Originally Posted by sodaz

I sense the "ghetto" spirit there haha. :)

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You're just directing the air, it's not "flowing" yet. When it is in an enclosed space and flowing, you'll need smooth curves for sure. Ghetto doesn't mean dodgy. :p

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Originally Posted by aaronng

You're just directing the air, it's not "flowing" yet. When it is in an enclosed space and flowing, you'll need smooth curves for sure. Ghetto doesn't mean dodgy. :p

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The scoop is a duct and any air that passes through is "flowing" through it. Having any hard edges means that the air will not flow through smoothly. A boxy shape will increase drag and form dead spots which will limit the amount of air flowing through. It's the exact same reason why the airbox is rounded and not a square box shape.

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Originally Posted by sodaz

The scoop is a duct and any air that passes through is "flowing" through it. Having any hard edges means that the air will not flow through smoothly. A boxy shape will increase drag and form dead spots which will limit the amount of air flowing through. It's the exact same reason why the airbox is rounded and not a square box shape.

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You missed my point. The inside of the airbox is enclosed and hence it NEEDS that smooth shape. The scoop is before the airbox and is not enclosed. It is only directing the air, not flowing it. Therefore you can use sharp angles of up to 135º (180º - 45º) or even 120º to direct the air. It doesn't matter if the air is super turbulent as long as it is not turbulent in the enclosed region.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

You missed my point. The inside of the airbox is enclosed and hence it NEEDS that smooth shape. The scoop is before the airbox and is not enclosed. It is only directing the air, not flowing it. Therefore you can use sharp angles of up to 135º (180º - 45º) or even 120º to direct the air. It doesn't matter if the air is super turbulent as long as it is not turbulent in the enclosed region.

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I don't think that true at all. It doesn't matter if it's enclosed or not. The sharp angle will create turbulence at the spot and that translates to less air traveling to the wheel well area. Ask anybody who studies CFD and they'll tell you the same thing. Think of air as water. Will you get more water in the wheel well shooting it at a 45 degree panel or a smooth curved scoop?

Im gonna have to go with aarong.

Seeing as the ducting isnt a pipe directly connected to intake at all, extreme angles wont retard performance. Because the intake isnt sucking from the ducting, extreme angles isnt going to come into play. It'd only effect the amount of air that is routed to the filter.

Yeah maybe the filter wont get as much cold air if you have like one thousand loops in the piping.

But it wont reduce the performance of the intake it self. Thats what i think anyway.

I've done it on my car, so has aarong..

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Originally Posted by sodaz

I don't think that true at all. It doesn't matter if it's enclosed or not. The sharp angle will create turbulence at the spot and that translates to less air traveling to the wheel well area. Ask anybody who studies CFD and they'll tell you the same thing. Think of air as water. Will you get more water in the wheel well shooting it at a 45 degree panel or a smooth curved scoop?

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Air and water have different densities and viscosities. If you want to use the same analogy, you have to think of directing a jet of water INSIDE water! You are trying to compare water-in-air to air-in-air, and that's different.

And, the air in your wheel well is at atmospheric, it is not a vacuum when your filter is sucking in the air. So all you are doing is directing air into the cavity in hope that more "cold" air gets in.

BTW, CFD is assumes that you are in a single phase. Your water-in-air example is 2-phase and not usable with CFD :)

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Originally Posted by xiang

Im gonna have to go with aarong.

Seeing as the ducting isnt a pipe directly connected to intake at all, extreme angles wont retard performance. Because the intake isnt sucking from the ducting, extreme angles isnt going to come into play. It'd only effect the amount of air that is routed to the filter.

Yeah maybe the filter wont get as much cold air if you have like one thousand loops in the piping.

But it wont reduce the performance of the intake it self. Thats what i think anyway.

I've done it on my car, so has aarong..

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It has nothing to do with whether it's connected to the intake. A 45 degree panel won't be as efficient routing air to the front wheel well as a smooth curved scoop. The air particles cannot travel efficiently because of turbulence (think of a traffic jam) which means that the wheel well area will get less cool air in comparison. The intake is sucking air from that area. Cooler air = more power. The scoop provides a smooth, constant steam of cool air.

I'm sure the guys at Mugen had too much time on their hands and decided to mould a complicated scoop like that when a simple angular panel would've done the job. Nobody ever said a 45 degree panel will reduce the effectiveness of the intake. After all, it's still better than having nothing in place. All i'm saying is that it's definitely not as good as the scoop that comes with the intake.

I asked my gf who designs industrial scale HVAC systems for a living the same question and she told me the exact same thing. Seriously, ask someone who actually knows CFD and see what they say.

HVAC systems are enclosed. That's why they use smooth curves. Ask your gf if they use smooth curves to direct air into the intake port from unenclosed conditions. They probably don't even direct air in and just use an open funnel with a grill to keep pests out. :)

HVAC = Intake arm
Any part that is before the intake port does not have the equivalent flow of inside a HVAC.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

HVAC systems are enclosed. That's why they use smooth curves. Ask your gf if they use smooth curves to direct air into the intake port from unenclosed conditions. They probably don't even direct air in and just use an open funnel with a grill to keep animals out. :)

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Mate, i told you already. I asked her what she thought about the scoop and the 45 degree panel and she said that the panel will definitely not be as efficient for routing air to the wheel well area. Smooth curves allow air to travel smoother and the same thing applies whether it's enclosed or not.

She studied CFD for years and probably understands airflow a bit better than you and I. :p

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Originally Posted by sodaz

Mate, i told you already. I asked her what she thought about the scoop and the 45 degree panel and she said that the panel will definitely not be as efficient for routing air to the wheel well area. Smooth curves allow air to travel smoother and the same thing applies whether it's enclosed or not.

She studied CFD for years and probably understands airflow a bit better than you and I. :p

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It's 45º like this: __/ which is more like 135º.
Make sure you clear it up with her that it's not the __\ 45º.

And I'm a chemical engineer. :)

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Originally Posted by aaronng

It's 45º like this: __/ which is more like 135º.
Make sure you clear it up with her that it's not the __\ 45º.

And I'm a chemical engineer. :)

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Yeah that's exactly how i explained it to her. The other 45 degrees really wouldn't work. I might ask my other friend who's an automotive engineering major and see what he says too.

Seriously? Many years ago i did chemical engineering (only for 6 months) in uni and then i ended up doing computer science cause i couldn't stand the labs lol.

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Originally Posted by sodaz

Yeah that's exactly how i explained it to her. The other 45 degrees really wouldn't work. I might ask my other friend who's an automotive engineering major and see what he says too.

Seriously? Many years ago i did chemical engineering (only for 6 months) in uni and then i ended up doing computer science cause i couldn't stand the labs lol.

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I've been doing chemical engineering for 9 years now. Finally finished it with 2 degrees. LOL. Anyway, I agree that the curved shape will flow better, but when you are using it for a purpose like this, sharp angles will work up to about 80-90% as good as the curved shape. It's all a matter of wanting to go all the way to DIY a curved shape just to gain that last 10-20%, which in real dyno performance gain end up to be about 0.001kW atw. For a chemical engineer, efficiency per dollar/time is what counts. :)

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Originally Posted by aaronng

I've been doing chemical engineering for 9 years now. Finally finished it with 2 degrees. LOL. Anyway, I agree that the curved shape will flow better, but when you are using it for a purpose like this, sharp angles will work up to about 80-90% as good as the curved shape. It's all a matter of wanting to go all the way to DIY a curved shape just to gain that last 10-20%, which in real dyno performance gain end up to be about 0.001kW atw. For a chemical engineer, efficiency per dollar/time is what counts. :)

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Well done mate. It takes a lot of hard work from start to finish.

I think so too. The scoop will probably be around 10-20% more efficient but in terms in real world performance it might not translate to much. Unless you put the two side by side and have a dyno handy, it would be impossible to measure. But if i paid $1k for an intake, i would expect it to have the best design and of course, lots of bling! ;)

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Originally Posted by sodaz

Well done mate. It takes a lot of hard work from start to finish.

I think so too. The scoop will probably be around 10-20% more efficient but in terms in real world performance it might not translate to much. Unless you put the two side by side and have a dyno handy, it would be impossible to measure. But if i paid $1k for an intake, i would expect it to have the best design and of course, lots of bling! ;)

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Yeah, for 1K, it had better be smooth and made out of dry carbon. My sharp angle comment was for a ghetto DIY one. :)

Looks good.video/sound clip please.:p

wait...

so the air direct is made out of dry carbon too? I thought it was just the airbox lid that was carbon.

I think I might look into an air direct DIY hehe

Finally get it installed... partly as the air duct thing can only bolt on with stock bumper so I will need to ask someone to make a custom mount to mount the duct in place.

Compare to injec, stock and mugen, Injen feels like it lags down low due to their length but provide more peak power gain. Mugen in the other hand is very responsive till redline but may not as much power up top which is really what I am after. Also there is no heat/water problem like CAI/SRI. Mugen as well a lot quite when vtec kick in. The quality is like an art which is no complain.... it may just look like a normal airbox with air direct thing but i believe it is not really as easy as what you guys going to DIY or even a proper DIY with the help from a dyno unless u can run a dyno in a wind tunnel.

At the end of the day, Mugen is not chasing just for top power like what those US things are.

VID... is fairly useless as it is really quite.... a lot quiter than what i expect but it is what I want as well =)

Pix coming soon

The Mugen is pretty darn expensive Type G. For $1k I think the Gruppe M is better value as you are getting more surface area out of the filter they use

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Originally Posted by yfin

The Mugen is pretty darn expensive Type G. For $1k I think the Gruppe M is better value as you are getting more surface area out of the filter they use

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I think the mugen is for those who can't stand the noise of the Gruppe M.

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Originally Posted by yfin

The Mugen is pretty darn expensive Type G. For $1k I think the Gruppe M is better value as you are getting more surface area out of the filter they use

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The power band of the two intakes are quite different. The Mugen provides more low to mid power whereas the Gruppe M focuses more on the top end. It's hard to say which one is better value. Mugen's kit might be more expensive but at the same time you get more stuff.

Type G - how big is the panel filter for the Mugen? It looks smaller than stock.

it is not about the size of the filter itself since larger the filter not equal to the more air you can suck in at a given time as the pipe size is the same. Actually, it just like a stock airbox but the inside is design for the best airflow.
yeah it is pretty hard to compare with Gruppe M as Mugen is more into response on every rpm.
it is a bit pricy but injec is just not really should my driving style =)

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Originally Posted by TypeG

yeah it is pretty hard to compare with Gruppe M as Mugen is more into response on every rpm.

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I drove my mate's car that has the mugen quite a few times and that's the same feeling i got. Smooth and quick response throughout the rev range. I've got the comptech icebox and the mugen revs faster and smoother with more power. It also sounds a lot better in comparison.

Size wise it's between the stock and comptech icebox.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

I think the mugen is for those who can't stand the noise of the Gruppe M.

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lol i didn't think it was that loud.

The gruppeM doesn't use the biggest pod filter around but it's an interesting design with a wide stainless steel dome on the outside of the filter and a thinner and sharper cone on the inner side - combined with the smooth shape of the heat shield it's meant to smoothen airflow.

I think on a euro with a standard ecu the difference in performance between the two would be negligible. It's hard to say which design would work the best once tuned though - I was impressed by the gruppeM design which is why i went for it.

and besides panel filters sound boring haha

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

lol i didn't think it was that loud.

The gruppeM doesn't use the biggest pod filter around but it's an interesting design with a wide stainless steel dome on the outside of the filter and a thinner and sharper cone on the inner side - combined with the smooth shape of the heat shield it's meant to smoothen airflow.

I think on a euro with a standard ecu the difference in performance between the two would be negligible. It's hard to say which design would work the best once tuned though - I was impressed by the gruppeM design which is why i went for it.

and besides panel filters sound boring haha

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I thought the gruppeM used a standard K&N pod.

nope, it's a unique design specified by gruppeM (made by K&N)

http://www.gruppemeurope.com/terms_pix.jpg

you can see the wide dome on the outside... on the inside there is a thinner sharper dome

the gruppeM kit comes with quite a few pieces to adapt the extra wide base of the pod as seen in the pics. it also comes with a stay bracket for the cl7/cl9 application

The Gruppe M rules for looks and compromise :thumbsup:
The Mugen kit is too close to ice box setup but hey if you got the cash more power to ya :cool:

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

nope, it's a unique design specified by gruppeM (made by K&N)

http://www.gruppemeurope.com/terms_pix.jpg

you can see the wide dome on the outside... on the inside there is a thinner sharper dome

the gruppeM kit comes with quite a few pieces to adapt the extra wide base of the pod as seen in the pics. it also comes with a stay bracket for the cl7/cl9 application

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Ahhh, then the gruppeM probably has very small surface area...

yea it's not a very large filter... the surface area would probably only be a bit more than stock.

interestingly, the same sized filter is used for a number of other applications that would require more air than the k24.

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

yea it's not a very large filter... the surface area would probably only be a bit more than stock.

interestingly, the same sized filter is used for a number of other applications that would require more air than the k24.

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For what other cars does GruppeM use this filter for?

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Originally Posted by as001

The Gruppe M rules for looks and compromise :thumbsup:
The Mugen kit is too close to ice box setup but hey if you got the cash more power to ya :cool:

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but Mugen do have the CF look =)

i dun think the size of the filter will affect much since the pipe size is the same

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Originally Posted by aaronng

For what other cars does GruppeM use this filter for?

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DC5, EK9, DC2, Audi TT, e36 M3 etc. etc.

http://www.gruppem.co.jp/en/product/index.html

As far as I can tell the same filter is being used - I think there's only one part number for the filter but I haven't been bothered checking to verify that 100% - one things certain it's not a cl7 specific filter

EDIT: I just double thecked the part number and it is the same filter. R34 GTR uses the same as well.

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Originally Posted by TypeG

but Mugen do have the CF look =)

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The gruppe M has a CF heatshield too.

The Mugen kit comes with more stuff than the Gruppe M kit from what i've seen. The Gruppe M kit is an SRI with a heatshield whereas the Mugen comes with the top and bottom lid, intake horn and an air scoop.

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Originally Posted by sodaz

The gruppe M has a CF heatshield too.

The Mugen kit comes with more stuff than the Gruppe M kit from what i've seen. The Gruppe M kit is an SRI with a heatshield whereas the Mugen comes with the top and bottom lid, intake horn and an air scoop.

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nah i mean mugen do have the look as well =)

So anyone here's dynoed their Euro with the Mugen Airbox before?

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Originally Posted by E-Gene

So anyone here's dynoed their Euro with the Mugen Airbox before?

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u will have to do it yrself with my airbox =)

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Originally Posted by TypeG

u will have to do it yrself with my airbox =)

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I'll be having it dynoed in a few weeks actually. Will post up the results once I've got them.

Anyone with Injen or Comptech intakes dyno figures so we can compare?

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Originally Posted by E-Gene

I'll be having it dynoed in a few weeks actually. Will post up the results once I've got them.

Anyone with Injen or Comptech intakes dyno figures so we can compare?

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I have my DIY intake dyno. But it wasn't done on a dyno dynamics.

i got it
with my.....yr exhuast and injec too

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Originally Posted by E-Gene

I'll be having it dynoed in a few weeks actually. Will post up the results once I've got them.

Anyone with Injen or Comptech intakes dyno figures so we can compare?

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Your car is brand spanking new so maybe now is not the right time to chase dyno numbers

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Originally Posted by yfin

Your car is brand spanking new so maybe now is not the right time to chase dyno numbers

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Just trying to see what improvements it makes to the car. But I'm going for my club's dyno day to hang out with the boys and for the fun of it, I decided to put the car on the dyno as well.

Still have the new car smell...Mmmmm....

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Originally Posted by E-Gene

Just trying to see what improvements it makes to the car. But I'm going for my club's dyno day to hang out with the boys and for the fun of it, I decided to put the car on the dyno as well.

Still have the new car smell...Mmmmm....

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Well, your dyno numbers will only be comparable to the other cars that will run on the same dyno day. You can't compare numbers over different brands of dyno machines.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Well, your dyno numbers will only be comparable to the other cars that will run on the same dyno day. You can't compare numbers over different brands of dyno machines.

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Yes, I know that. I've had my previous cars dynoed before and understand that every dyno is different, every car is different at different times, etc.

But there's always a rough benchmark for what to expect from our cars. Just want to know what the average is so if say most people have been getting 115kw and I get only 95kw then I know that something is wrong with my setup.

lol
with yr parts, u wont go wrong....
i got 120kw with yr exhuast and crappy injec =)

Phew, took the entire night but the airbox is finally in the car. First time ever taking apart the Euro so it took a while but the Mugen instructions (though in Jap) were fantastic. Will post up some photos in a while, gotta go wash the dirty hands.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by E-Gene

Yes, I know that. I've had my previous cars dynoed before and understand that every dyno is different, every car is different at different times, etc.

But there's always a rough benchmark for what to expect from our cars. Just want to know what the average is so if say most people have been getting 115kw and I get only 95kw then I know that something is wrong with my setup.

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It would be better if you used the dyno to find out the improvement in power with your mods rather than compare the outright power to someone elses.

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Originally Posted by TypeG

lol
with yr parts, u wont go wrong....
i got 120kw with yr exhuast and crappy injec =)

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Depends on the dyno. I got 119.5kW with just a pod!