Formula 1 2009 season discussion

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Originally Posted by revjunkie
the honda and mercedes engines.. same hp output.. wasnt the issue.. it was the team drivers getting stale.. if you were threatened with your job loss you would perform also.

hp isn't the defining factor that makes an engine it's how it makes that power

Ross Brawn took a average pakage and made it better

its been said the merc block is around 50-60hp up on the Honda... that certainly makes a difference on the straights...
n the drivers have also commented on how 'drivable' it is.. the power comes in really smooth.... torque is also better apparently...

You know what, at a glance it is but then when you delve deeper its kinda not...

Honda have been developing this car since early 2008... Honda has been bankrolling this team probably up until 3 weeks or so ago. This 'is' a Honda chassis (minus the engine). This car would have been little different (If at all) if Honda had of stayed...

If you want to see how a real new team will do on debut, (And not just one which took over another - This "other" being one with MASSIVE resources already put in place) wait until USGP in 2010...

If you follow F1 as closely as I do then you'll come to realize and accept that BRAWNGP or Virgin BRAWNGP, whatever it's called, will not last... They don't have the resources that Ferrari, Toyota and even Redbull have... I give them the first 3 months or so for the flyaway races then when they get back to Europe we'll see them coming back into the midfield or not as dominating as now...

By next year, mark my words, this team will be midfielders... (Note: If the salary cap does come into effect then what I said may not apply)

u cant forget that they still have one of the best facilities on the grid when it comes to development...
only thing they're lacking imo is funds... which im sure they'll get after todays results.... sponsors should be knocking on their door before the next round...

[Petronas]

Why would their awesome run change in that time? They DO have the resources to be a constantly winning outfit. The fact remains that if they keep in points paying positions, or better yet place on the podium, sponsors will throw money at them.

Don't mistake this as just another 'Force India' or 'Spyker'. Ross Brawn is an EXTREMELY capable man with plenty of industry connections.

The same thing happened when Ken Tyrrell created his own team from scratch. No one thought it was possible to match the front running Lotus', and he proved them wrong. Jackie Stewart, under Tyrrell's guidance went on to win many a grand prix with that outfit.

I see where you're coming from on this and I do agree with you that this may not be another B.A.R. 2004 season. Yes this is Brawn and not Nick Fry at the helm anymore (They should have kept Richards/Prodrive after 2004) but also remember, like I said earlier, this is not a BRAWNGP car, this car was created with Honda money...

For me, it's about the money and this teams past history on not keeping their eye on the ball (2004 to 2005)...

Only time will tell... I still stand by my judgment that Ferrari and McLaren (As well as Redbull and Toyota) will catch up in leaps and bounds after the first flyaway Grand Prix...

[EGB18CT]

great job they did, shame it finished under safety car - I had a strong feeling this was going to happen.

agree with petronas.. this was essentially a honda win, chasis developed by honda since like sept 2007 i think it was, just a merc motor dropped in. Ross was fairly new to honda too, so it was all just starting to slowly come together.

just a shame for cam mcconville, i believe he was looking to get into the f1 car.

[StrawberryFace]

agree with petronas.. this was essentially a honda win, chasis developed by honda since like sept 2007 i think it was, just a merc motor dropped in. Ross was fairly new to honda too, so it was all just starting to slowly come together.

So if the BGP001 lost, would that be a Honda loss as well?

The chassis does not make up the entire vehicle, and i think it's an insult to credit this win to Honda. Honda gave up their chance to win when they axed their F1 program...

[chunky]

yeah wtf i hear cam mcconvilles name dropped here and there?
did he move from v8s?

[EGB18CT]

when i refer to honda i mean the 'honda team' engineers, drivers, car, ross brawn included, all that is missing is the honda logos (you can say honda funded this team too - they basically developed the car/chasis bar the motor) all brawn did was basically buy the team from honda and change the name...

cam mcconville i believe was testing the car and was looking to become a future driver for them? not sure but im guessing something like that - can anyone chime in on this?

[yourfather]

You know what, at a glance it is but then when you delve deeper its kinda not...

Honda have been developing this car since early 2008... Honda has been bankrolling this team probably up until 3 weeks or so ago. This 'is' a Honda chassis (minus the engine). This car would have been little different (If at all) if Honda had of stayed...

If you want to see how a real new team will do on debut, (And not just one which took over another - This "other" being one with MASSIVE resources already put in place) wait until USGP in 2010...

If you follow F1 as closely as I do then you'll come to realize and accept that BRAWNGP or Virgin BRAWNGP, whatever it's called, will not last... They don't have the resources that Ferrari, Toyota and even Redbull have... I give them the first 3 months or so for the flyaway races then when they get back to Europe we'll see them coming back into the midfield or not as dominating as now...

By next year, mark my words, this team will be midfielders... (Note: If the salary cap does come into effect then what I said may not apply)

Typical Malaysian attitude

"mark my words" armchair expert right there....

It's an amazing story because it's about a guy who in November was told he'd have no job, the team is new, had no sponsors until yesterday and managed to come poll and 2nd and then finish the way they started.

[chunky]

isnt he nepalease?
haha

[yourfather]

i dont care if he's a butt dwelling pirate from uranus

[wtfhax]

i dont care if he's a butt dwelling pirate from uranus

omg looooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[ford_racing]

great job they did, shame it finished under safety car - I had a strong feeling this was going to happen.

agree with petronas.. this was essentially a honda win, chasis developed by honda since like sept 2007 i think it was, just a merc motor dropped in. Ross was fairly new to honda too, so it was all just starting to slowly come together.

Its not quite that simple with the chassis development.
Yes Honda did have a good basic chassis, but I'm willing to bet that the McLaren Mercedes motor / gearbox would have had different dimensions & mounting positions from the engine / gearbox Honda was working on.

And in F1 this is one of the most important parts of the car it would have required a lot of work to make it fit and keep CoG and drivability the same and improve on it.

I'll bet that they spent a lot of time & money redesigning the chassis once they got the Merc engine contract.

Either way, go team Brawn!

[Petronas]

Typical Malaysian attitude

"mark my words" armchair expert right there....

It's an amazing story because it's about a guy who in November was told he'd have no job, the team is new, had no sponsors until yesterday and managed to come poll and 2nd and then finish the way they started.

Thats the first thing that came to mind when I was typing the msg "Mark my words"... Sounds a tad cocky...

It's amazing that Brawn got all the deals put in place to get an engine, to get an entry and to revive the team (And now a sponsorship deal with Bransen).

It was however not amazing that they did so well. The only thing that amazes me is that they married the Mercedes to the Honda chassis in such a short amount of time AND that they had so little track time before the season. (Massive kudos to the team for this) Everything else was already put in place, the engineers, the R&D facilities, the car... More than a year of development competing with 8 to 6 months, hardly a surprise...

I admire very much Brawn, Fry and Rubens (Never been a Button fan).

And... what buggs me is everyone is hyping this team to be "new"... It is NOT new (in the sense that everyone thinks anyway), the only new thing about this team as of now is management and engine... Honda money has always been there (Up until a certain point anyway) and now being replaced with new money...

We will see the effects of Brawns leadership as opposed to Fry and Honda soon enough...

isnt he nepalease?
haha

Yeah lol... I'm not familiar with any native Malay culture/attitudes...

Like I said... we haven't had a new team (Built from scratch) since Toyota in 2002... Wait until USGP...