Formula 1 2009 season discussion

[krogoth]

even if any mods were done, they were done by the HONDA TEAM..........

The whole BRAWN TEAM = HONDA TEAM

so those mods were done by HONDA

and why is it so hard for u two ****s to give Honda a bit of credit....

all that happend between the end of last year and the start of this year was a name change and a different engine which would not have made a damn difference

[^^v]

Source: http://www.themotorreport.com.au/227...eam-principal/

Keyword there is modified, unless you show proof that it is 100% untouched chassis and all they did was drop in a motor, you cannot claim it to be all honda's work.

After all, I find it hard to believe after spending millions of dollars, 2yrs of production to call it quits at the last minute if they believed they had a winning chassis...You would think they would at least try and get in a race or keep their badge if everything was 100% perfect...

Modifications were taken place to fit the Merc engine and you cant rule out any other modifications happened between March and start of GP.

At the end of the 08 season they knew that next years car was going to be 'competitive'... key word there.. 'competitive'... but i dont think they were expecting THIS much of a competitive car ... ie melbourne and sepang... they pretty much walked away with the win...

Ross brawn himself stated that he was 'suprized' the others wernt quicker... so by no means did Honda have prior knowledge to the extreme pace the car showed during the first few races... if they had known then MAYBE they would have stayed.... but frankly its all about the bottom line... which is why Honda left...
Hondas share price actually went up on the announcement on their leaving F1...

Oh and development was halted on this car as soon as word of Hondas departure came to light... hence why NO upgrades were placed on the car during the first flyaway races...the only thing changed to the car was modifying it for the merc block.... Ferrari was an option but ross decided with the merc as it maited with the chassis better... but by no means was it a perfect fit... (which is why they had rear suspension issues in China... something to do the merc block inteferring with the travel)...

Although on paper its a BRAWN GP chassis... Honda had considerable input into its development.... and theres no denying that...

[Binny]

I totally agree with rekin (AKA PAT ZOMBIE), waseem u fkn NOOOB if honda put their WAP (weak as piss) engine onto their chasis they wouldnt be a quarter as good as BRAWN, the HONDA engine in the f1 car was (60-70 hp) off the ferrari and merc engines, so that means every time the HONDA would have used KERS they would be pushing same power as ferrari and mclaren without,this was a major factor to HONDA being such a hopeless team for the last 10-15 years .

[Binny]

even if any mods were done, they were done by the HONDA TEAM..........

The whole BRAWN TEAM = HONDA TEAM

so those mods were done by HONDA

and why is it so hard for u two ****s to give Honda a bit of credit....

all that happend between the end of last year and the start of this year was a name change and a different engine which would not have made a damn difference

BRAWN doesn't = HONDA, If you read the quote without being so fkn CLOSE MINDED, you will understand that BRAWN made modifications to the chasis and not HONDA, HONDA gave them the RA109 chassis and BRAWN modified it. BRAWN doesnt = HONDA because BRAWN is a new team, ROSS BRAWN is a legend of the game, and he was not working at HONDA F1 team, they arent just wining because of their car it because ROSS BRAWN is such a 1337zor, BUTTON didn't win Bahrain because of his car, he won because of ROSS BRAWN startegy which you would know if you even watched the race. Had the RA109 chassis been fitted with the HONDA engine and no ROSS BRAWN their wouldn't be a difference HONDA wouldn't be winning. The most major modification that was done to the 2009 f1 cars was the rear diffuser, which ROSS BRAWN fitted himself, HONDA's original chassis didn't consist of the controvericial rear diffuser and it was ROSS BRAWN himself who decided to fit it onto the BRAWN mercedes car.

[Binny]

even if any mods were done, they were done by the HONDA TEAM..........

The whole BRAWN TEAM = HONDA TEAM

so those mods were done by HONDA

and why is it so hard for u two ****s to give Honda a bit of credit....

all that happend between the end of last year and the start of this year was a name change and a different engine which would not have made a damn difference

I dont mind giving HONDA a bit of credit, but i do mind when stupid retards like you give them full credit, WHAT MODS were made by HONDA? you don't know shit you have just started watching f1 and your still a NUB so stfu and watch for a few seasons before you talk shit.

[krogoth]

wow...what a hypocrite

First u quote rekin who is just as new to F1 as i am.....first stupidity, and u quoted him without even reading the article in the link he pasted.....2nd stupidity

You dont even read what any of the other members post, and I'm close minded??

Brawn was employed by Honda F1 Team in NOVEMBER of 07, when Honda had probably already made the decision to give up on development for the 08 season because of the 09 regulation changes

Honda had run into big financial problems, so they cut back completley from F1 and didnt want anything to do with F1 at all by the end of 08, so the chassis name was changed and the engine was taken out when Brawn who was ALREADY the TEAM PRINCIPAL at honda

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/227...eam-principal/

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63900

As said by ^^v

Honda started developing this (RA109 aka BGP001) chassis about 1.5 years ago... earlier than any other team... quite a strategic move by brawn as this year there is NO on track testing what so ever... and restrictions on wind tunnel testing... so for the teams that r behind atm it'll be a some what more difficult job to catch up...

as for not using the Honda engine... Brawn simply had no say in the matter... Honda pulled out FULLY... which means no engines...
but lets say Honda did stick around.... it was no secret that Honda was down on power (60-80hp) on the top engines (merc.. Ferrari)... which is why the FIA allowed the teams which fell behind on the engine department (mainly Honda and Reanult) to claw back in power... so modifications were allowed between the end of the 08 and prior to the start of the 09 seasons (for the respective teams)...
so in theory the Honda engine would have been on par with the mercs n ferraris.... and in combining it with the current chassis (which was originally designed for the Honda engine) it would have been in the same if not better position than it is now...
and this is not taking into consideration the KERS Honda was developing... dun forget they were the FIRST team to test KERS on track back in early 08...

SO if Honda had remained at least the engine supplier to Brawn, Brawn had the Green light to proceed in re-development of the engine

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ho...tion-2142.html

Honda didnt concentrate as much on the engine side of development and fell behind a few years ago, then when the engine freeze rule was implemented they couldnt do anymore and remained some 30hp or so behind the top teams


But Honda pulled out completley, so Brawn decided to INvest his own money into the team that he was managing at Honda because he believed in it.......once he bought the team off Honda, evry1 moved to the Brawn Team, there was not one change to any of the engineers, designers, pit crew, drivers....NOTHING.....SO it was essentially a HONDA TEAM under the BRAWN Name the modified the chassis to FIT THE MERC ENGINE

Had honda stayed as the engine supplier to Brawn, it left their ex-honda team(BRAWN) 3months+ to get another 30+hp out of the honda engine, So this is entirely a honda team, entirely a honda chassis, with a MERC engine that produces as much as the Honda engine could have

So u just got wrecked by som1 new to F1...get back ontop of Hamiltons ****...

[Binny]

wow...what a hypocrite

First u quote rekin who is just as new to F1 as i am.....first stupidity, and u quoted him without even reading the article in the link he pasted.....2nd stupidity

You dont even read what any of the other members post, and I'm close minded??

Brawn was employed by Honda F1 Team in NOVEMBER of 07, when Honda had probably already made the decision to give up on development for the 08 season because of the 09 regulation changes

Honda had run into big financial problems, so they cut back completley from F1 and didnt want anything to do with F1 at all by the end of 08, so the chassis name was changed and the engine was taken out when Brawn who was ALREADY the TEAM PRINCIPAL at honda

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/227...eam-principal/

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63900

As said by ^^v



SO if Honda had remained at least the engine supplier to Brawn, Brawn had the Green light to proceed in re-development of the engine

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ho...tion-2142.html

Honda didnt concentrate as much on the engine side of development and fell behind a few years ago, then when the engine freeze rule was implemented they couldnt do anymore and remained some 30hp or so behind the top teams


But Honda pulled out completley, so Brawn decided to INvest his own money into the team that he was managing at Honda because he believed in it.......once he bought the team off Honda, evry1 moved to the Brawn Team, there was not one change to any of the engineers, designers, pit crew, drivers....NOTHING.....SO it was essentially a HONDA TEAM under the BRAWN Name the modified the chassis to FIT THE MERC ENGINE

Had honda stayed as the engine supplier to Brawn, it left their ex-honda team(BRAWN) 3months+ to get another 30+hp out of the honda engine, So this is entirely a honda team, entirely a honda chassis, with a MERC engine that produces as much as the Honda engine could have

Your Hopeless you know that, Ross Brawn has been working on developing and improving the chassis and didn't work on the engine because they had the mercedes, do you seriously think you can pull 60-70hp (i.e. not 30hp...)out of a honda engine without jeapordising the modifications on the chassis mainly the rear diffuser? HONDA's original chassis didn't come with the rear diffuser and ROSS BRAWN decided to put it on himself, HONDA originally went with the KERS system, that ROSS BRAWN didn't like. As for Rekin being as new to f1 as you, thats a load of horse shit, i have been talking to Pat Zombie about f1 and kubica for the last 2 years when you didn't even know where Raikennen raced for NUB. If the engines are meaningless, then why is it that you have to state the engine after the name? its because they are essentiall to a good car Hondas last engine was renouned for hardly finishing the race...

[^^v]

I dont mind giving HONDA a bit of credit, but i do mind when stupid retards like you give them full credit, WHAT MODS were made by HONDA? you don't know shit you have just started watching f1 and your still a NUB so stfu and watch for a few seasons before you talk shit.

....

what u mean 'what mods were made by honda'.... they designed the entire chassis.... like i said... there was NO developments after Honda pulled out and the start of the 09 season... the ONLY thing they did was modify (which actually hindered the performance) the gearbox and suspension to fit the merc block... thats it...

Im not dissing merc ... they prolly got the best engine on the grid... BUT u cant solely say coz of the merc engine and modifications Brawn GP made to the chassis that they're suddenly flying and that Honda F1 had negligible input into the chassis development....

F1 simply doesnt work that way... u dont just bolt on a part and ur suddenly @ the front... everything has to work as a package...
i mean if u look @ the developments comming for barcelona... they got a new front wing... new rear wing... totally different sidepods (asymetric)... n all that is roughly gona give them 0.3 seconds a lap...


bottom line is Honda had 95% involvement in the development of this chassis.... they're even bankrolling the team this year (reportedly $150million was given to brawn gp for the continuation of the season)....

[krogoth]

Your Hopeless you know that, Ross Brawn has been working on developing and improving the chassis and didn't work on the engine because they had the mercedes, do you seriously think you can pull 60-70hp (i.e. not 30hp...)out of a honda engine without jeapordising the modifications on the chassis mainly the rear diffuser? HONDA's original chassis didn't come with the rear diffuser and ROSS BRAWN decided to put it on himself, HONDA originally went with the KERS system, that ROSS BRAWN didn't like. As for Rekin being as new to f1 as you, thats a load of horse shit, i have been talking to Pat Zombie about f1 and kubica for the last 2 years when you didn't even know where Raikennen raced for NUB. If the engines are meaningless, then why is it that you have to state the engine after the name? its because they are essentiall to a good car Hondas last engine was renouned for hardly finishing the race...

What a piss weak reply

You know nothing about Brawn or Honda, u just go by ur fan boy band waggoning propaganda that Hamilton fans go by

You cant get it in ur fkn head that this is still the SAME HONDA TEAM, EVERY SINGLE FKN ELEMENT OF THE TEAM IS IDENTICAL except for the engine

YES i admit, the MERC engine is BETTER, but IF Brawn was given the choice he may have stuck with the Honda engine and try to get another 30 to 60hp(not all engines are as powerful as ferrari and mclaren) and get it up to the same level as the most powerful teams

And YES it was BRAWN who made the controversial Diffuser, but BRAWN BEING the TEAM PRINCIPAL at HONDA would have made the same diffuser regardless of whether he was working for honda or for himself

"Honda said Brawn will have full responsibility for designing, manufacturing, and engineering the team's car."

And how do u know what modifications would have to be made to get the improved Honda engine to fit the chassis? Engines have very limited dimensions and tolerances to work with........

AS for KERS, Brawn being the Team principal had the choice of whether to use it or dump it......

[^^v]

regarding the diffuser...
it was actually a Honda aerodynamsists that came up with the idea.... but he soon moved to toyota... and in doin so gave Toyota the idea and in turn toyota palmed it off to Williams..

For DD Diffuser to work... the whole under body has to work with the concept not to mention the gearbox and rear crash structures... u cant just bolt on the diffuser and go .5 secs quicker.... if that was the case then every single team would have it by now.... the reason why Ferrari BMW and co havent got it yet is coz it requires MAJOR changes to the underbody... the none diffuser teams r practically bringing out a B sepec car for Barcelona

not taking anything away from the team or Brawn... but if we need to get nitty gritty into the facts... then it IS a Honda chassis by design.... anyone who disagrees with that notion obviously isnt well informed...

EDIT: http://realbrawngp.com

really good site to keep up to date with the team and info... they usually have news and information before any other site regarding the team...
theres also a few ppl who are connected to the team around that forum..

[GreekWarrior]

punch onz f-onez stylez

[^^v]

lulz...