The B20VTEC discussion thread

[tinkerbell]

Im just providing information about it, people can decide for themselves.

oh, OK, i must have misunderstood where you said that these parts are worth changing when we are reconditioning our heads...


Also, I was surprised by the price as I read the Americans are paying USD$30 for one...

so what part number did you buy?

was it either of:

14820-PCB-003
or
14820-PCB-305

[logical]

these LMA's.. do they NEED to be changed/reconditioned when I put my head into the shop??? Also does or has anyone in Bris done a B20 setup and if so where did they go to get there block and head work done/places people would recommend?

[tinkerbell]

these LMA's.. do they NEED to be changed/reconditioned when I put my head into the shop???

no - these definitely do NOT need to be changed unless broken.

[logical]

no - these definitely do NOT need to be changed unless broken.

Fab. Now onto the fact that there are 2 types. Mine is a b16a so its the enclosed one. Is there an advantage to have the spring type over the closed type and vice versa?

[tinkerbell]

no...

[Lerlo]

oh, OK, i must have misunderstood where you said that these parts are worth changing when we are reconditioning our heads...



so what part number did you buy?

was it either of:

14820-PCB-003
or
14820-PCB-305


I bought 305, I think 003 is for h22?

[pinoy-boi]

just wondering what timing belt cover you guys are using?

ive got a b16 head + b20b3 block... but my mechanic doesnt know which cover 2 use just had 2 rebuld the head after a rock got in there nd stuffed my tensioner...

*note* not running a Timing belt cover atm

[tinkerbell]

use the b20 or b18 one...

b16a is too short & will leave a gap...

[pinoy-boi]

the back cover that sits inbetween the timing belt nd housing?

[tinkerbell]

ah, no i was referring to the timing belt cover - between teh timing belt and the engine mount.

for the 'back cover' that goes between the camgears and the head you need a VTEC one...

[tinkerbell]

NB - you may need to modify the lower edges of the back cover to fit the b20 block if using a B16A back cover...

[pinoy-boi]

ah, no i was referring to the timing belt cover - between teh timing belt and the engine mount.

for the 'back cover' that goes between the camgears and the head you need a VTEC one...

wen u say "VTEC on" u mean liek a b16 one?

[tinkerbell]

Vtec = b16a & b18c

[pinoy-boi]

hmmmm, thats strange, coz they had a b16 one, but they said it ddnt fit on the b20 block..

[riruiz_88]

which main studs would be used for the b20 vtec? arp dosnt list a part number for the B20B all they have is this:
B16A: 208-5402
B18C: 208-5403
B18A/B: 208-5404

have tried emailing ARP them selves and they have no info they could give me:confused:

[tinkerbell]

hmmmm, thats strange, coz they had a b16 one, but they said it ddnt fit on the b20 block..

the 'back cover' doesnt fit to the block - it fits to the head...

[tinkerbell]

which main studs would be used for the b20 vtec? arp dosnt list a part number for the B20B all they have is this:
B16A: 208-5402
B18C: 208-5403
B18A/B: 208-5404

have tried emailing ARP them selves and they have no info they could give me:confused:

B20B block = B18B block except for bore

EDIT: why you changing them anyways? you know that they are not strictly a 'bolt-on' modification?

[riruiz_88]

i always thought you were meant to change them, would you recommend using standard B20 main studs then?

[tinkerbell]

no - you are meant to change the headbolts, not the mainbolts...

i dont think there is a strong reason to change the mainstuds on a non-boosted B20VTEC.

[riruiz_88]

u mean the head studs? i found a link that shows exactly what you were talking about re-threading the main studs using the ARP fasteners.
can i use B16A main bolts or are they different size/thread?

[tinkerbell]

u mean the head studs?


no, i SAID: "you are meant to change the headbolts, not the mainbolts..."

FYI - Hondas are build with headBOLTS and mainBOLTS

you MUST change the B20B headBOLTS to either B18C headBOLTS or aftermarket headSTUDS...


i found a link that shows exactly what you were talking about re-threading the main studs using the ARP fasteners.
can i use B16A main bolts or are they different size/thread?

you can do what ever you like :)

but i have already answered your question if you bothered to read my posts...

[riruiz_88]

thanks for clearing it up.

[Lerlo]

thanks for clearing it up.

Normally people do not reuse the head bolts.
Get ARP headstuds, part no. ARP 208-4306 for b16/b20.
Main bolts shouldnt need to be changed unless you wanna run a girdle.

[Bludger]

Normally people do not reuse the head bolts.
Get ARP headstuds, part no. ARP 208-4306 for b16/b20.
Main bolts shouldnt need to be changed unless you wanna run a girdle.Depends on what the intended use is.

nothing wrong with reusing standard head bolts on a normal head gasket change.

[Lerlo]

Well normally people dont for a b20vtec build.

Anyway, my new oil pump looks likt the one on the right, and my old oil pump looks like the one on top left.
Timing belt cover cant fit, anyone knows what cars run this timing belt cover that would fit?

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/attachments/honda-acura-tech/77570d1163386810-type-r-oil-pump-b16a-questions-oilpump.jpg


Thanks,
Leon

[riruiz_88]

the one on the right looks to be a B16A oil pump, the left might be B18C.

[Lerlo]

the one on the right looks to be a B16A oil pump, the left might be B18C.

I did some search and i can only find that its a USDM 99-00 b series oil pump, im wondering if any AUDM cars share this design.

[TODA AU]

I did some search and i can only find that its a USDM 99-00 b series oil pump, im wondering if any AUDM cars share this design.
No... You'll need to get the cover out of the US

[Lerlo]

No... You'll need to get the cover out of the US

Sigh, that sucks.

Well thanks for the info mate!

[Bludger]

everyone running with non standard bottom end, what compression do you guys have?

[Touge Tom]

everyone running with non standard bottom end, what compression do you guys have?

13.0 comp pistons, but with the gasket i'm using its 12.5.

[GSi_PSi]

^tuned on 98 octane ?

[Touge Tom]

^tuned on 98 octane ?

has to use 98. other wise it pings.

[pinoy-boi]

12.7 running 98 octane

[tinkerbell]

12.5:1 on 98

[Bludger]

this is how i do it (2.5MB):

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac336/tinkerbell987/crankventB20.jpg

So bottom of this Ebay canister, a hose runs the oil drain, back to the Prelude fitting on the block? prelude oil cooler fittings (part# 11107-PK2-003)

[Bludger]

ivé had a b20vtec for 3 years now built from the bottom up. you name it, type-r crank and low friction journal berring's , 84.5mm forged 13 comp pistons with 3 leaf head gasket to drop the comp to 12.5, forged rod's, block guard+welded in and the block planed and the cylinder's honed out, p72 vtec head, stage 3 + buddyclub cam's, skunk2 intake manifold, buddyclub 4-2-1 header, high flow cat with 2.5 straight through piping, toda racing fly wheel, exedy sports tuff clutch, type-r gearbox 4.7 final drive, koni adjustable shock's with lowered king spring's, blox 68mm throttle body, buddy club double coil valve spring's with titanium retainer's, jdm p30 ecu with apexi vafc2 and 240cc injectors. and this is my daily to and from work ,shop's, road trip's and home. iv'e had no problem's with this set up. it was buit @ good performance centre yennora by charlie and his crew. so why doe's everybody hate on the frankenstien?any problems with the 240cc injectors?

sounds small for what you have.

[Bludger]

i would change the head gasket to golden eagle gasket that comes with the kitno you wouldn't, you would pay someone else to do it.

[bennjamin]

no you wouldn't, you would pay someone else to do it.

....and still owe them money !

[tinkerbell]

So bottom of this Ebay canister, a hose runs the oil drain, back to the Prelude fitting on the block? prelude oil cooler fittings (part# 11107-PK2-003)

yes, there is a 9/16 barbed fitting on the bottom that leads to the 'Prelude' fitting on the TB side hole...

[tinkerbell]

any problems with the 240cc injectors?

sounds small for what you have.

he'd be running 80psi fuel pressure or similar...

[Sideburns1]

hey ive got a question im doing a b20 build now im running cp 12.5:1 pistons eagle rods stock b20 crank for the bottom end and ive got a jdm b18c itr head and i wanted to run stage 2 or 3 skunk 2 cams and valve train...has anyone ran this setup or similar and had issues with valves touching or anything similar??

thanks

[Benson]

Clay the motor to check clearance

[MikeyG]

no you wouldn't, you would pay someone else to do it.

maybe


....and still owe them money !

and who do i owe money??? please tell me dude

[bennjamin]

maybe



and who do i owe money??? please tell me dude

U owe me $21 and a set of oem lugnuts lol
Not that i care but just taking advantage of comedic timing ;-)

Back on topic sorry OP !

[tinkerbell]

take it to PM or you will be banned.

[Sideburns1]

so far wenever i say to someone im building a b20 up all they say is there so unreliable n it will blow....how many people have had problems with there builds? and is this just a assumption because the motor was never made for vtec?

[Cooker]

If you build it properly eg. Apart from decent pistons and rods use 5 cap girdle, decent dampner like fluidamper, balance everything and don't rev past 8,500rpm should be ok.
All comes down to the quality of the build and not reving it past 8,500rpm.

[Bludger]

so far wenever i say to someone im building a b20 up all they say is there so unreliable n it will blow....how many people have had problems with there builds? and is this just a assumption because the motor was never made for vtec?
have you read through this thread yet?

you should. I did. took me a while but answered a lot of questions, like the ones you're asking.

[Lerlo]

If you build it properly eg. Apart from decent pistons and rods use 5 cap girdle, decent dampner like fluidamper, balance everything and don't rev past 8,500rpm should be ok.
All comes down to the quality of the build and not reving it past 8,500rpm.

Hey cook, whats this damper your talking about?

Also, for a b20/b16, one would use a b18c timing belt right?
Cant seem to get mine to tension up well and no i did not mill my head or block..
22T Water Pump too....

[mocchi]

http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/catalog/ati/ati.superdamper6_d.jpg

ATI Super Damper standard harmonic balancers are specifically designed for high-rpm engines. Their proven elastomer is designed and tuned to eliminate harmful crankshaft harmonics that cause parasitic horsepower loss. They are actually two dampers in one--a 4 in. diameter inner damper and a 6 3/8 in., 7 in., or 8 in. diameter outer damper in two shells that bolt to the crank hub. These dampers are engineered to all but eliminate worn parts and timing problems. They're tunable in the field, rebuildable, and extremely efficient at all rpm.

do we really need it?

[Cooker]

It's good insurance.

[tinkerbell]

Hey cook, whats this damper your talking about?

Also, for a b20/b16, one would use a b18c timing belt right?
Cant seem to get mine to tension up well and no i did not mill my head or block..
22T Water Pump too....

my head is milled/block decked and the B18C belt works fine... are you doing it as per the factory manual?

[Lerlo]

my head is milled/block decked and the B18C belt works fine... are you doing it as per the factory manual?

Yup, following Helms... maybe I should try the clothes hanger technique... Also, it may be tight enough, im not sure...

May I ask, is it strange to have a reading of 300psi on all 4 cylinders? I poured oil into the combustion chamber as I heard it would help seal the rings, and cranked the car without plugs for awhile, maybe I poured too much?

[tinkerbell]

300 is high, but static Comp depends a bit on cam timing...

[Lerlo]

300 is high, but static Comp depends a bit on cam timing...

Im running stock b16a2 cams with stock cam gears so overlap is stock, but compression is 11.5, will there be an issue with detonation?

[newpaddy3]

If you're concerned about detonation run a higher octane, or make your own race fuel. It's not hard, just google it.

[tinkerbell]

If you're concerned about detonation run a higher octane, or make your own race fuel. It's not hard, just google it.

no - if you are concerned about detonation, then fix the problem properly...

Lerlo - there is no way we can tell from behind our keyboards if there will be a problem with detonation - SOOOOOO many things can cause it... so you need to prevent it by designing your system properly...

[newpaddy3]

lol sorry, I was drunk last night.

tinkerbell is right though.

Are you getting a reading of cel 32 or whatever the knock sensor throws out? Or are you just wondering if you may have a problem with detonation in regards to your build?

[Lerlo]

no - if you are concerned about detonation, then fix the problem properly...

Lerlo - there is no way we can tell from behind our keyboards if there will be a problem with detonation - SOOOOOO many things can cause it... so you need to prevent it by designing your system properly...

Thanks tinkerbell, I got the car started and its idling fine now. No knocking on the PFC commander, all good for now. :)

[Lerlo]

lol sorry, I was drunk last night.

tinkerbell is right though.

Are you getting a reading of cel 32 or whatever the knock sensor throws out? Or are you just wondering if you may have a problem with detonation in regards to your build?

IM just wondering if I may have detonation in regard to my build, yeah. Cos Im using stock cam gears, therefore stock overlap but high compresison pistons....

[tinkerbell]

yes - you will get detonation if your setup is not tuned or poorly designed. it is not simply a matter of overlap vs compression.

who tuned/is tuning your PFC?

what is you 'calculated' compression ratio?

what spark plugs, what fuel system, what ignition system? etc...

all these can play a part in detonation and knock...

[ZeForce]

I havent actually read most of the recent comments in this thread, so dont flame me if it's a little off topic, but Im just going to add my 2cents worth anyways... one very important point that it seems most people over look is the fact that a certain static compression ratio can have different detonation characteristics depending on the combustion chamber shape and size, as well as the cam timing which will determine the engines dynamic compression

[Lerlo]

Quick question, Im using a b16a sump and b16a dipstick on the b20 block, will the dip stick reading be accurate?

[tinkerbell]

why don't you use the B20B dipstick?

won't that be correct?

[lil_foy]

why don't you use the B20B dipstick?

won't that be correct?

He's using a b16 sump which i'm presuming he isnt sure if its the same as b20 or not.

[DC2-PWR]

Don't know if this video link will work,

Stroked B22B built by Hi-Power Racing (Ivan and gang) making an insane 200HP.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150213713015490&saved#!/video/video.php?v=10150213713015490

[tinkerbell]

He's using a b16 sump which i'm presuming he isnt sure if its the same as b20 or not.

well, then i guess both of you need to have a bit of a think through the conceptual framework of how a dipstick works?

[Lerlo]

why don't you use the B20B dipstick?

won't that be correct?

My b20 block did not come with a dipstick, so I cant compare the difference in length.
As for the difference between a b20 and b16 sump, Im pretty sure its the same volume but you can never be too sure.

[newpaddy3]

There is a difference in length between the B18 and B16, so I'm assume that the b20 block would be the length of the B18.

Just food for thought.

[tinkerbell]

My b20 block did not come with a dipstick, so I cant compare the difference in length.
As for the difference between a b20 and b16 sump, Im pretty sure its the same volume but you can never be too sure.

the sump volume could be 50 litres and the dipstick would still work the same way...

and since you don't have a b20 one, try your b16 one in a mates b20 or b18 and see what happens?

[tinkerbell]

lerlo - PM box is full...

[GSi_PSi]

B22b only making 200hp ? , brb gtg Jdm k20 swap lol

[Vvvtec]

B22b only making 200hp ? , brb gtg Jdm k20 swap lol

This.

I admire all the work, but for the $$ it took to build that motor one can dream of the K-swap that could have been done... I think it did a high 12 on the 1/4? Moiz can you confirm?

[GSi_PSi]

There was an eg that made 160kw and ran a 11.9 on a stock 84mm bore b20 in comparison, I'll try get my mate who knows the guy to get slips and dyno sheets

[89lude]

one could have done 2 k swaps for what he paid. with oem reliability.

[Lerlo]

lerlo - PM box is full...

Oh damn, sorry, clearing it now.

[Lerlo]

A little late, but got my engine tuned about a month ago, this is the dyno sheet.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k285/lerlo/dyno2.jpg

Would like to hear your opinions on the curves.

Also, would like to thank this thread for helping me through my build, especially CHris and Tinkerbell.

Two questions:

- Is it a must to retorque the headstuds after running in? My head gasket is leaking at the exhaust side, but no signs of oil in coolant yet.

- Can I run the oil catch can to the intake pipe like the stock routing for the rocker cover or should i use a pcv?

[Cooker]

The Vtec crossover isn't very smooth. What cams u running?

[Lerlo]

The Vtec crossover isn't very smooth. What cams u running?

Stock b16a2 cams.

[tinkerbell]

curves look good man,

no need to re-torque head studs - unless you failed to do it properly in the first place, then it is time for a new HG...

you need to find out where the oil is coming from - dizzy o-ring or the VTEC port on the back... either two places makes the oil run to the front side of the head...

PCV is covered in previous pages of this thread...

[Lerlo]

curves look good man,

no need to re-torque head studs - unless you failed to do it properly in the first place, then it is time for a new HG...

you need to find out where the oil is coming from - dizzy o-ring or the VTEC port on the back... either two places makes the oil run to the front side of the head...

PCV is covered in previous pages of this thread...

thanks tinkerbell.

Yeah, I checked the area under the dizzy and vtec sol and its definately wetter. Ill change the seals and see how it goes.

Also, I meant, would be be alright to run the oil breather to the intake before the throttle body instead of using a pcv. Could find any info on that..

[tinkerbell]

PCV is already covered, if you don't want to follow that - I cant really help you...

[DC2-PWR]

This.

I admire all the work, but for the $$ it took to build that motor one can dream of the K-swap that could have been done... I think it did a high 12 on the 1/4? Moiz can you confirm?

13.0 but that was his first time


There was an eg that made 160kw and ran a 11.9 on a stock 84mm bore b20 in comparison, I'll try get my mate who knows the guy to get slips and dyno sheets
What tyres was he running bro


one could have done 2 k swaps for what he paid. with oem reliability.

True that

[GSi_PSi]

mt full drag radials, might be going down with him and a couple of boys in the comming weeks to wsid, just have to finish off my car

[Fadam9t1]

Hey guys,

I gotta B20B8/B16 build and theres an issue with the vtec..

its not cracking nor is there any grunt..

if you guys have any experience with these setups please let me know...

Cheers,

[tinkerbell]

yeah mate, I got lots of experience with these setups...

[u mad?]

ok, say i want 130kw plus b20vtec

i already have--- b18c7, mugen header, customized mugen twinloop (straight through pretty much) j's racing whale penis, hondata s300, spoon oil sump, hks oil cooler.

what kind of price would i be looking at? could i do it for around $5k using alot of the parts i already have?
im talking labour and tune included.

i was just planning to go toda b cams valve springs and retainers plus re-tune with my current b18c7, but im still waiting to here back from a workshop and in the meantime i've considered going b20vtec.'

opinions?

[GSi_PSi]

very possible. but depends on where you want the build done. people charge a lot of labour for a build in a shop , although Charlie at GPC is pretty decent
charges 800-1k for b20vtec build labour not including installation
B20 Block is cheap around $300-500 , wreckers will usually just sell you the whole engine
Bang for buck is RS machine which is basically ITR copies around $350 landed
Using aftermarket rods is optional as it is still n/a i recommend the stock ones are fine just shotpeen and press them into arp rod bolts $100
VTEC conversion kit $350
Bearing Overhaul kit $200 ( highly recommended)
New Oil pump $120

New tune ~500... calculated total around ~3k .... output power figure
same setup my cousin produced 133kw atw with toda header, 2.5inch catback with xforce twinloop, Injen CAI, Crome chipped ECU

[u mad?]

what would i be using off my b18c7? just the head?
is the spoon sump and cooler compatible?


thanks for the brake down of costs, makes things a little clearer!

[Benson]

Remember to add the bolt on mods as well

[GSi_PSi]

will be using basically everything from your B18C7 minus the bare block..

impressions of B18C7 to B20 Block, Power delivery is much greater, straightaway there is a surge of torque, all the way to mid range then vtec comes on and it gets even better revs the same if not faster than a B18C7,
when camshafts were swapped out to rocket motorsport M22xx, revs were even faster and smoother, excellent upgrade to the ITR Camshafts.

[u mad?]

even crank, rods, pistons??

yeah thats what im craving- more mid-range and just more power in general haha

in comparison, a b18c7 with 130kw would get chopped by a b20vtec with 130kw no worries? i just don't wanna spend all this cash for minimal gains..

benny, (or anyone) do you think mugen headers and mugen twinloop will be good to use with a b20? (keeping in mind the twinloop is now a straight pipe with one reso)
im guessing the j's racing whale penis will have to go..? (ie- get something better)

[GSi_PSi]

u mad?. To get the most from a B20 best piping diameter for the exhaust 2.75".
I made 121kw atw stock b16a head on stock b20b8 block with jun 2.75" catback, Toda headers, stock airbox
125kw atw with same setup but headers now RMF rep narrow and Injen CAI

[GSi_PSi]

sorry i should of said complete bottom end. You will obviously use your alternator, belts etc

some people have put in ITR crank but from what i have seen they dont really last very long.
It just makes more sense to use the 89mm crank vs 87mm itr crank. You will be sacrificing low end torque and hp
the ITR pistons are 81mm vs the 84mm b20

[mocchi]

u mad?. To get the most from a B20 best piping diameter for the exhaust 2.75".
I made 121kw atw stock b16a head on stock b20b8 block with jun 2.75" catback, Toda headers, stock airbox
125kw atw with same setup but headers now RMF rep narrow and Injen CAI

when you say 2.75", you talking about the collector size?

[tinkerbell]

he is talking rubbish really...

[Benson]

he is talking rubbish really...

LOL... care to explain more?

Anyways like i said before, you will need to weigh up all the option. Doing a B20vtec bottom end is one thing, have the right supporting bolt-ons is another. It can be a very costly exercise

[tinkerbell]

2.75in is not required to make 130kw...

wouldn't you agree?

[GSi_PSi]

tinkerbell - it has been proven time and time again, bigger is better, for a bigger motor. Sure you can make 130kw with 2.5inch but im willing to bet anything you will have more power everywhere with 2.75inch. dont give me all this bullcrap on backpressure, there are people running 3 inch in the states for their b18c/b20 builds making exellent power. Australia is just too stupid to keep up with the times

[tinkerbell]

To get the most from a B20 best piping diameter for the exhaust 2.75".


there are people running 3 inch in the states for their b18c/b20 builds making exellent power.

um, so which is the best? you seem to be in two minds?

[fatboyz39]

even crank, rods, pistons??

yeah thats what im craving- more mid-range and just more power in general haha

in comparison, a b18c7 with 130kw would get chopped by a b20vtec with 130kw no worries? i just don't wanna spend all this cash for minimal gains..

benny, (or anyone) do you think mugen headers and mugen twinloop will be good to use with a b20? (keeping in mind the twinloop is now a straight pipe with one reso)
im guessing the j's racing whale penis will have to go..? (ie- get something better)


If you have both b18c and b20 making 130kw atw yes the b20 will just beat it slightly. Now give that b18c say a close gear set, say goodbye to the b20.

2.5' exhaust is more then sufficient for B20 setup. Mugen headers will work as well.

[fatboyz39]

tinkerbell - it has been proven time and time again, bigger is better, for a bigger motor. Sure you can make 130kw with 2.5inch but im willing to bet anything you will have more power everywhere with 2.75inch. dont give me all this bullcrap on backpressure, there are people running 3 inch in the states for their b18c/b20 builds making exellent power. Australia is just too stupid to keep up with the times

It might show it that it gain @ WOT, but it'll lose a considerable amount of power @ 50 % throttle. Where do you spend most of your time driving i/e street car? AT WOT or cruising say with 10-40%? throttle?

[Benson]

2.75in is not required to make 130kw...

wouldn't you agree?

Your right Tinkerbell. If i remember right, we were running 2.5inch system making a little over 150kw's

[u mad?]

argh

torn between going b20 or stick with my b18 and do cams and 4.9 fd



benson, how did you go about making 150kw? how much would i realistically have to spend to get there (considering a workshop will be doing it all)

[Bludger]

If you want to keep it reasonable, you have to DIY.

[u mad?]

If you want to keep it reasonable, you have to DIY.

i don't have the mechanical knowledge or the tools for that. wish i could watch/ help someone do something like this to learn. labor costs is what kills!

[Benson]

argh

torn between going b20 or stick with my b18 and do cams and 4.9 fd



benson, how did you go about making 150kw? how much would i realistically have to spend to get there (considering a workshop will be doing it all)

Realistically, adding up all parts used with bolt-ons close to $10,000. Don't forgot i did most of the work putting in the engine in and stuff. For that price in this day and ages, you can afford a K-swap (k20 or K24). Why do you think i went K-swap?

[u mad?]

i fingered it'd be about 10k

edit- wow thats with no labor costs!

[fatboyz39]

Sell your B series off and add 5k ontop and get a k24 in there :)

[GSi_PSi]

50% throttle ? So your saying you would rather have a bees dick more power on 50% throttle than overall at WOT ? You don't build your engine to cruise around as a daily most of the time.
Also where is the proof that you do lose power at 50% if you jump to 2.75". ? do you have any dyno sheets , comparison graphs 2.5 vs 2.75

[tinkerbell]

i fingered it'd be about 10k

edit- wow thats with no labor costs!

and no machinist costs either!

[Benson]

50% throttle ? So your saying you would rather have a bees dick more power on 50% throttle than overall at WOT ? You don't build your engine to cruise around as a daily most of the time.
Also where is the proof that you do lose power at 50% if you jump to 2.75". ? do you have any dyno sheets , comparison graphs 2.5 vs 2.75

I think you are missing the bigger picture here. Most Honda's built are daily driver 80% of the time. You want the low end torque and response to make it an enjoyable street car. Obivously once you step on it, you want the thing to move.

Who cares what size exhaust system you put on. I've seen car make power with crappy exhaust system. At the end of the day its up to the end user if they don't mind the level of noise of the exhaust whether it be 2.5, 2.75 or 3 inch

[Fadam9t1]

Hey guys,

My b20vtec is hooked up with a hondata s300 and the ecu is not enabling vtec with all wiring and hardware are fine..

could my ecu be playing up in anyway??

Cheers

[MikeyG]

where did you tune it champ.. i would suggest dont touch anything regarding the ecu... take it to the tuner you went to and advise him the problem he might be able to fix it for you.

[tinkerbell]

Hey guys,

My b20vtec is hooked up with a hondata s300 and the ecu is not enabling vtec with all wiring and hardware are fine..

could my ecu be playing up in anyway??

Cheers

do you have oil pressure?

[Fadam9t1]

MikeyG - Thanks for the advice bro just thought id see what response ill get from this thread:)

cheers!

Tinkerbell - its not an oil pressure as Benson from ozhonda has found that the vtec solenoid is fine but the problem is just the ecu not enabling vtec even though its enabled in settings? or would it still be an oil pressure issue?

Thanks!

[Fadam9t1]

where did you tune it champ.. i would suggest dont touch anything regarding the ecu... take it to the tuner you went to and advise him the problem he might be able to fix it for you.

Btw bro the first owner got it tuned at toda.. after he sold it to an italian guy he then turboed it?

[tinkerbell]

if it is not mechanicals, then can you post the S300 Calibration (.skl) that you are using? or email it to me?

it will be easy to work it out from there...

[Fadam9t1]

if it is not mechanicals, then can you post the S300 Calibration (.skl) that you are using? or email it to me?

it will be easy to work it out from there...


No worries man whats your email address tinkerbell?

[Fadam9t1]

Guys,

I gotta b16/b20 atm although im planning to go stock 18c7 head for more response+Compression?

Please advise if this is a good option or not?

Cheers

[tinkerbell]

no.

compression will be the same (depending if the heads have not been shaved).

only a VTiR B18C2 head can increase compression...

[Bludger]

anyone selling a bare block?

[pinoy-boi]

anyone selling a bare block?

i ws in this situation awhile, had to buy a complete engine.. ripped it apart only for the block. seems like a waste cost me 800bucks.....

[Vvvtec]

You can get entire motors for like $500 at Hondarec can't you?

[dougie_504]

anyone selling a bare block?


Yeah my mate is, just sent him a SMS

[Bludger]

thank you.

[Fadam9t1]

Part from dyno dave being one of the best for tuning hondas..

is there anyone else that can tune b20vtec's?

[GSi_PSi]

Adrian - TODA australia, Scott - Insight Motorsports, Bel Garage, Chris - Protune,

[dougie_504]

Any of these guys in Melb? I want a good Honda specialist in Melb and I hear nasty whispers about some of the 'better' workshops...

[Snoop_gee]

^ thats the thing you "hear nasty whispers"
Ever thought about actually going in person to talk and see the workshop 1 on 1

1 Melb workshop who deals with CRX's and b20's in actually is ModProject...which incl Tuning.

Frankeneilstein” DC2
(http://www.modproject.com.au/?p=100#more-100)

[dougie_504]

Yes I have, and done both (go in, and talk!). I really wanted James to tune my car at RevZone, but unfortunately he's no longer doing work there now - Craig has taken over doing the Hondas.

But I guess if I can communicate verbally with a person and see that they do in fact have a workshop to work at...then according to you they must be a competent tuner?


Snoop, I really care about my car and who works on it. That's why it's been on the road for all but maybe 14 days since I've owned it, whereas there are people who never made it to a single meet over a solid 5+ year period.

[Snoop_gee]

Not entirely sure what your insinuating in the last para.

As for James the Tuner.
U never thought to perhaps find out where James is these days and ask around? Obviously not!

James still tunes just not at RevZone.

[civicboy84]

Not entirely sure what your insinuating in the last para.

As for James the Tuner.
U never thought to perhaps find out where James is these days and ask around? Obviously not!

James still tunes just not at RevZone.


B20s < K20...and their lack reliability speaks volumes....at the end of the day snoop has done an amazing job and was just trying to guide you...

[dougie_504]

Not entirely sure what your insinuating in the last para.

As for James the Tuner.
U never thought to perhaps find out where James is these days and ask around? Obviously not!

James still tunes just not at RevZone.


You're wrong, it did occur to me, however I haven't pursued it yet. I can probably get his number when time allows me to see him. I think Jeff has it.

[dougie_504]

B20s < K20...and their lack reliability speaks volumes....at the end of the day snoop has done an amazing job and was just trying to guide you...

I agree with K20 > B20, but I disagree that snoop is just trying to guide me. IMO he's just coming up with assumptions - assuming that I've never bothered to speak to or visit a tuner but would rather decide on hearsay. Assuming that I've never bothered to consider trying to contact James directly.

If he wanted to guide me why wouldn't he just offer to help me get in contact with James, my preferred tuner?

[Snoop_gee]

B20s < K20...and their lack reliability speaks volumes....at the end of the day snoop has done an amazing job and was just trying to guide you...

hahah Chris. Your a classic man .:cool:
B20's are still alright thou :thumbup:


Andy uve always disagreed from day 1 but thats u i cant help that.

[dougie_504]

Riiiiiiight lol. Clutching at nothing...

[tinkerbell]

get a room kidz!

[mocchi]

Any of these guys in Melb? I want a good Honda specialist in Melb and I hear nasty whispers about some of the 'better' workshops...

tell me if you find one, im in a pickle as well.

[GSi_PSi]

This mentatilty that B20's arent reliable is kinda getting old, they are reliable aslong as its been built properly. Its not a conversion that can be left un-opened, the engine components obviously need to be taken apart and slapped together, where as a K20 can be un-opened.
A B20VTEC can be reliable as any other motor that has been built together, keeping in mind your not overboring the already thin sleeves, Boosting it to strenuous amounts of psi or revving it above 9000++

[civicboy84]

This mentatilty that B20's arent reliable is kinda getting old, they are reliable aslong as its been built properly. Its not a conversion that can be left un-opened, the engine components obviously need to be taken apart and slapped together, where as a K20 can be un-opened.
A B20VTEC can be reliable as any other motor that has been built together, keeping in mind your not overboring the already thin sleeves, Boosting it to strenuous amounts of psi or revving it above 9000++

OEM power will never be less reliable than a modified engine...........millions on RnD for a reason

[dougie_504]

You could argue that swapping out your OEM pistons/rods etc for forged items might be more reliable because they are stronger. Same goes for valvetrain items like HD valve springs.

I've seen B20VTEC's rev'd to over 10,000RPM, obviously with forgies and sleeves, upgraded valvetrain etc.

[vtecing]

Just because a motor can be made to perform in a certain way doesnt mean it can do it continuously. Put a shot of nos on a dihatsu cherade, it'll go fast, once.

[dougie_504]

^ clearly that's not relevant to the use of a B20VTEC.

They're reliable when done right, and there are lots of examples to see for yourself.

[vtecing]

Oh no doubt, nothing is impossible if you have a fat wallet

[VtecKickedInYo]

wats the best head for a b20?im a noob

[na-118]

Do your research tony or pm a few guys who have done many of these

[fatboyz39]

Best head to start off with PR3 B18cR or if you want slightly more comp P72 head (b18c2).

[Snoop_gee]

Just because a motor can be made to perform in a certain way doesnt mean it can do it continuously. Put a shot of nos on a dihatsu cherade, it'll go fast, once.
http://www.luxury4play.com/images/l4p/smilies/gotNOS.gif
hahah

[VtecKickedInYo]

Thx for the help.ill do more research on it.

[dougie_504]

B16A head is the cheapest and flows very well, also sounds great on VTEC crossover. You're more likely to find them for sale than B18C heads.

There's one being sold by 'hitoriko' in VIC right now in the Parts section, and I'm sure I saw a B20 block for sale in there somewhere this week.

[dougie_504]

Have PM'd you links to a head and block for sale.

[blastnpast]

Hello B20 discussion thread

As some of you have read my EK civic is soon to be a B20 vtec (B20B bottom, B16 head)

Currently im after a Golden eagle 84mm vtec conversion kit and haven't had much luck on the cheaper side of prices finding the cheapest kit at $300 lol

If anyone has some insights as to purchasing one please let me know where it's possible to find a cheaper one.

Also just wanting to know what set ups most people are using. I'm looking for a close to stock set up with slight mods to make the build reliable I.e on my list already is:

ARP HEAD STUD BOLTS
ARP ROD STUD BOLTS
GOLDEN EAGLE CONV KIT 84mm

[tinkerbell]

i wouldn't use a conversion 'kit' if i was trying to save money...

[blastnpast]

i wouldn't use a conversion 'kit' if i was trying to save money...

Lol what are you implementing mate that a Conversion kit won't hold up hence spending more money later or just going around it in a different way to get a cheaper alternative

[TODA AU]

going around it in a different way to get a cheaper alternative

When you get the head serviced
1) Have the dowel holes drilled on the opposite side & re-use the std B20 dowels
2) Use Nippon Gasket Co, Ltd head gasket
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-CIVIC-B20-B20B-INTEGRA-METAL-HEAD-GASKET-SIR-VTEC-/150386855425?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2303c14e01
3) Buy a 1/8 NPT grub screw & fit this to the base of the head (OEM Vtec oil supply)
4) Use M-Factory sandwitch block or similar & make your own oil line

Or use the stepped dowels & the B18C 84~85 gasket

[mocchi]

Lol what are you implying mate, that a Conversion kit won't hold up hence spending more money later or just going around it in a different way to get a cheaper alternative

kit is more expensive, cheaper if you buy all parts yourself rather than buying a kit.
not saying kit is shit.

[blastnpast]

Awsome info thank you for clearing that up I will defiantly look into these options :)

[tinkerbell]

Lol what are you implementing mate

i implement my own 'kit' when i build my B20's

1. 1/8bsp - AN6 m/m
2. 3/8bsp - AN6 m/m
3. earls prolite 350 hose
4. cometic B20vtec gasket
5. head ser vice as TODA has said

[riruiz_88]

what about instead of using a sandwich plate to feed oil to the head, feed it from the oil pump?
it "looks" to do the same job, but would it be efficient as would it be cooled or hot oil coming from here?

i want to know because if someone wanted to use an oil cooler with sandwich plate, they wouldnt want to use 2 plates hanging off the block.
here is what i mean...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3340584088_cdffc29d61.jpg

[TODA AU]

Only down side for using this point as an oil feed (same as pressure switch t-peice) is the oil is unfiltered.

[riruiz_88]

it would affect the performance/maintenance of the motor, would it?

what would you suggest if you wanted to run an oil cooler with the vtec sandwich plate?

[riruiz_88]

any suggestions to this??^^

[TODA AU]

any suggestions to this??^^

You're answering your own question,
So what do you want to know?

[GSi_PSi]

Bud people have been running the oil cooler and sandwich plate, as long as you have proper gasket to go, i dont see why it should be a problem
here is a pic of a stock b18c oil cooler on a b20vtec + sandwhich plate
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww178/ekkilla23/backofb20.jpg

[riruiz_88]

im no mechanic so thats why im asking, someone had to right.
i wanted to know if running 2 aftermarket sandwich plates, nothing would fail?

thanks for the above pic

[TODA AU]

im no mechanic so thats why im asking, someone had to right.
i wanted to know if running 2 aftermarket sandwich plates, nothing would fail?

thanks for the above pic

You only need 1... (OEM oil/water heat exchanger + sandwitch block)
If you have an oil cooler sandwith block, you can run the vtec oil supply from this.
Don't stack up sandwitch block on top of sandwitch block, you're asking for trouble.

To use the B16/B18C OEM oil/water heat exchanger you'll need to add a water outlet fitting to the block.
This hole is blank on the B20

[Bludger]

To use the B16/B18C OEM oil/water heat exchanger you'll need to add a water outlet fitting to the block.
This hole is blank on the B20
interesting.

can't wait to get one on a stand and check it out for myself.

[spetz]

Guys sorry if this has been covered, but I have not read all 77 pages.
Can anyone tell me considering the bore is some 3-4mm more than the B16/18, and the head comes from the B16/18, do any modifications need to be made to expand the combustion chamber or using it as is is fine?

[Bludger]

confusing question,

[mocchi]

that area would be just an extra squish area wouldnt it?
i dont think diameter combustion area on cyl head is exactly the same to cyl bore diameter.

[spetz]

It would alter compression ratio if it was changed however logically it seems that sharp areas around the top of the bore would not be desirable?
I know the usually are not exactly the same as the bore and from looking at a few heads it seems sometimes the combustion area is not even a perfect circle.
I assume this means that the heads are not modified to take this into account?

[GSi_PSi]

Isn't that what a cnc Port job does
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Honda-Civic/i-7WgtHqP/0/L/IMG1204-L.jpg

[dougie_504]

It would alter compression ratio if it was changed however logically it seems that sharp areas around the top of the bore would not be desirable?
I know the usually are not exactly the same as the bore and from looking at a few heads it seems sometimes the combustion area is not even a perfect circle.
I assume this means that the heads are not modified to take this into account?

True, not always a perfect circle. Mine for example are certainly not, having been modified when my head was built. This was done to increase flow/combustion but of course you need to be careful that you don't crease hot-spots and have it done professionally.

[Bludger]

True, not always a perfect circle. Mine for example are certainly not, having been modified when my head was built. This was done to increase flow/combustion but of course you need to be careful that you don't crease hot-spots and have it done professionally.
no need to get pro.

just sit there with a rotary tool & some beer.

needs lots of time and must know where to grind.

lol

[spetz]

Does anyone know where the VTEC changeover point happens, and what rpm peak power is produced roughly with each respective head and standard cams?
ie, B16A, B16B, B18C, B18CR?

[mocchi]

Does anyone know where the VTEC changeover point happens, and what rpm peak power is produced roughly with each respective head and standard cams?
ie, B16A, B16B, B18C, B18CR?

are you asking the question based on head only or whole complete stock engine ?

[spetz]

Well on the basis that all things are equal and the same with the only difference being the heads

[TODA AU]

Guys sorry if this has been covered, but I have not read all 77 pages.
Can anyone tell me considering the bore is some 3-4mm more than the B16/18, and the head comes from the B16/18, do any modifications need to be made to expand the combustion chamber or using it as is is fine?
Keep the chamber at 81mm as std, or better, use a CNC reprofiled chamber, but again keep it at 81.
Going bigger loses quench & compression, so don't go there.

[TODA AU]

Isn't that what a cnc Port job does
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Project-Cars/Project-Honda-Civic/i-7WgtHqP/0/L/IMG1204-L.jpg

Damn!
You got a pic of the worlds 1st fully functioning android.
(That way his hands have computer numeric control :p )

[GSi_PSi]

Damn!
You got a pic of the worlds 1st fully functioning android.
(That way his hands have computer numeric control :p )

lol he could be a robot, nomsayin

better ?
http://www.centroidcnc.com/images/cnc_cylinder/a560_close_300.jpg

[tinkerbell]

maybe by:

http://alpha.akihabaranews.com/wp-content/uploads/images/4/94/17994//1.jpg

would be an expensive headjob no doubt!

[GSi_PSi]

maybe by:

http://alpha.akihabaranews.com/wp-content/uploads/images/4/94/17994//1.jpg

would be an expensive headjob no doubt!

i see what u did there, asimo escorts ftw

[tinkerbell]

either way, to answer spertz - slightly radiusing the edge of around combustion chamber to reduce hotspots would be all you should consider when using a 81mm head on a 84mm bore (unless you are designing the shape of the piston crown yourself...lol)

[ALLMTR996]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bcgVvCqXdY CNC Combustion Chamber Work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5tAIWp9qNs CNC Valve and Guide Work

[ALLMTR996]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3JCioHMcIw How a Newen Contour CNC seat cutter works

[Bludger]

lolwut

[ALLMTR996]

I see this forum has not changed still full of wankers.

[DR HONDA]

I see this forum has not changed still full of wankers.

Mmm I see

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[Bludger]

I see this forum has not changed still full of wankers.
helpful post.

plus rep

[ALLMTR996]

helpful post.

plus rep

And yours was helpful to hey along with the clown that posted a song up in a so called technical thread.

[hondapop]

I see this forum has not changed still full of wankers.

Don't read, don't post. Be 1 less.

[GSi_PSi]

And yours was helpful to hey along with the clown that posted a song up in a so called technical thread.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[NightKids]

I see this forum has not changed still full of wankers.

tool is u...

[ALLMTR]

Hehehe

[ALLMTR996]

Anyone else got any input

[Bludger]

about what>?

[newpaddy3]

Revival!

Where the hell can I find 84mm P30 b16 pistons??

Should give a CR of 12.31 and at 1972.87cc, should go alright.

Need moar compression, 9.2 sucks balls.

[newpaddy3]

Massive noob question coming up, I won't slap my valves if I use P30 pistons in a non-vtec head would I?

I tried a quick search and from my understanding it will be fine, but just want to confirm.

[newpaddy3]

What if I port the head and use crower 404's? Will they slap then?

B20vtec new spam thread? What?

[tinkerbell]

b16a pistons wont fit in a B20B - you need the "RS MACHINE" type

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RS-MACHINE-RACE-SPEC-B20-84MM-ITR-PISTON-SET-TYPE-R-84-/190663929924?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c6474b044

you also need a VTEC head.

[[not sure if trolling?]]

[pinoy-boi]

just wondering if anyone can confirm about engine mounts? innovative mounts part #10050 (60A) are the right mounts for B20 into a EK4?
3

[blastnpast]

@pinoy are you needing 2 or 3 post LHS mounts?

[pinoy-boi]

2 bolt. the cars a EK4 Vtir

[pinoy-boi]

was looking at these actually http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Innovative-Motor-Mount-Kit-96-00-Honda-Civic-D16-B16-B18-B20-Street-/110860549211?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19cfcdbc5b

[spetz]

Out of curiosity, can a B20A 95mm crank be used + get bore to 86mm pistons to make a 2.2L B series?

[tinkerbell]

yes..

[gbpracing]

Just to vouch for Tinkerbell's quality - the first B20VTEC he built (2002) is still going hard to this day =)

I'm sure he will see this thread soon..
B20Vtec lives ...lol
I have a major build just completed..... For circuit racing only running on high octain race fuel , mild comp 12:86:1 but nothing std internally what so ever. Full race prepared engine to hopefully pump out 175Kw @ wheels but will have to wait for actual dyno figures...

[spetz]

At what kind of rpm?

[gbpracing]

At what kind of rpm?
Im looking to keep the same 8600rpm as I had in the old B18/Vtec.... I have heard about how delicate the sleeves are in the B20 but I need to see if it's still making power at those rpm's and where the torque curve is ! Its a real unknown for me with this build !!!
Anything thoughts you can share are most welcome if you have first hand experiance on this kind of build.

[tinkerbell]

mate, i built my B20 with 84.5 CP pistons at 12.5:1 and it has over 17'000km and seen plenty of VTEC,

i think the sleeves are fine unless you have knock...

i am rebuilding the head soon (stripped sparkplug thread - doh!!), and have removed the blocked flex pipe from the exhaust, so will be probably be pushing over 165kW on next dyno tune...

[gbpracing]

mate, i built my B20 with 84.5 CP pistons at 12.5:1 and it has over 17'000km and seen plenty of VTEC,

i think the sleeves are fine unless you have knock...

i am rebuilding the head soon (stripped sparkplug thread - doh!!), and have removed the blocked flex pipe from the exhaust, so will be probably be pushing over 165kW on next dyno tune...
Great to hear about your build and experiances with your B20Vtec.... Any chance of getting some ideas on what I can expect from my setup ?

[tinkerbell]

Great to hear about your build and experiances with your B20Vtec.... Any chance of getting some ideas on what I can expect from my setup ?

hmmm, with the scant information you have provided, between 145 and 170kW? :confused:

[gbpracing]

hmmm, with the scant information you have provided, between 145 and 170kW? :confused:
Ok here's a breif breakdown of the engine build....
B20 block with 85mm Super tech forged 12:86:1 comp, Carillo H beam rods, 3.5 kg flywheel with 7.25" Tilton hydro concentric twin plate clutch, Crank is knife edged hardened and balanced with all clutch and f/w. B16A full race ported head with 285cfm @ .500", 34mm Intake valve 29mm exhaust valves. Toda C2 Cams , Intake 260 deg @ 1.0mm, 12.5 lift, Exhaust 255 deg @ 1.0mm, 12.5 lift

Toda 4-2-1- race headers, 4x 48mm throttle bodies, Autronic engine management system. Using 105 race fuel. 450cc injectors, Bosch VL turbo Motorsport HP Fuel pump,Sard fuel pressure regulator,


If thats not enough info let me know what you need to know !

[ericl33]

Ok here's a breif breakdown of the engine build....
B20 block with 85mm forged 12:86:1 comp, Carillo H beam rods, 3.5 kg flywheel with 7.25" Tilton hydro concentric twin plate clutch, Crank is knife edged hardened and balanced with all clutch and f/w. B16A full race ported head with 285cfm @ .500", 34mm Intake valve 29mm exhaust valves. Toda C2 Cams , Intake 260 deg @ 1.0mm, 12.5 lift, Exhaust 255 deg @ 1.0mm, 12.5 lift

Toda 4-2-1- race headers, 4x 48mm throttle bodies, Autronic engine management system. Using 105 race fuel. 450cc injectors, Bosch VL turbo Motorsport HP Fuel pump,Sard fuel pressure regulator,


If thats not enough info let me know what you need to know !
how does the race fuel come?from pump or drums?

VL pump necessary?

85mm is the limit of the sleeve?

[gbpracing]

how does the race fuel come?from pump or drums?
VL pump necessary?
85mm is the limit of the sleeve?

Last time I checked, race fuel comes in drums !!!
I dont see any issues using this pump, whats your point here ?
Not sure is you are asking a question or making a statement !!!!!

[tinkerbell]

Ok here's a breif breakdown of the engine build....
B20 block with 85mm forged 12:86:1 comp,

over 12.5 is a good start, brand? design? P2W specs?

i am running CP.

Carillo H beam rods,

excellent.

3.5 kg flywheel with 7.25" Tilton hydro concentric twin plate clutch,

clutch is personal choice, but that sounds stout.

(i run exedy hyper carbon)

Crank is knife edged hardened and balanced with all clutch and f/w.

what clearances?

B16A full race ported head with 285cfm @ .500",

mine head is 300cfm @.500

34mm Intake valve 29mm exhaust valves.

i think unnecessary, but can help in boosted application, did soemoen talk you into this? or your idea?

Toda C2 Cams ,

these play nice with 2L and quads

(i am running std intake (fully ported by Endyn) and 65mm TB)

Toda 4-2-1- race headers,

should be perfect

(i am on bisimoto)

4x 48mm throttle bodies,

a bit small for 175kW? but mid will be great...

Autronic engine management system.

tuners choice? Hondata is fine for most cases...

Using 105 race fuel.

will help!

450cc injectors,

i am runing ID725cc in mine, but 450 will be OK with lots of pressure

Bosch VL turbo Motorsport HP Fuel pump,Sard fuel pressure regulator,

both OK, but also a surge tank?

If thats not enough info let me know what you need to know !

based on my amazing "head dyno" i think you should reach your target output whilst being reliable...

probly wont need to go much past 8600 to get there either...

[gbpracing]

based on my amazing "head dyno" i think you should reach your target output whilst being reliable...

probly wont need to go much past 8600 to get there either...
My engine builder went 1mm bigger on valves...
Some of your questions I dont have the info, will need to ask builder.
I do have a fuel , surge tank and also an oil accumulator..

[caruso_19]

Im looking to keep the same 8600rpm as I had in the old B18/Vtec.... I have heard about how delicate the sleeves are in the B20 but I need to see if it's still making power at those rpm's and where the torque curve is ! Its a real unknown for me with this build !!!
Anything thoughts you can share are most welcome if you have first hand experiance on this kind of build.


my b20vtec has done around 27,000 kms, it even has turbo kms on it!!. Yes the sleeves are thin, spend the money on tuning and you'll be fine.

[ericl33]

Last time I checked, race fuel comes in drums !!!
I dont see any issues using this pump, whats your point here ?
Not sure is you are asking a question or making a statement !!!!!
1 - thanks, didn't know
2 - was wondering if it is overkill?
3 - is a question.

:)

[gbpracing]

1 - thanks, didn't know
2 - was wondering if it is overkill?
3 - is a question.

:)

LOL
The car is for fulltime track and needs to last as long as the last engine build, that being 10 years,,,

[butterfingers]

B series for Boys
K series for Kings

[gbpracing]

B series for Boys
K series for Kings
Each to their own I say !
As long as its a Honda, Its all good :-) and Im not on here to be critical of others !!

[butterfingers]

it was intended as a joke.

the best type r ever made has a b-series in it imo

but then again it becomes a god when you put a k-series so idk now hmmm..

[gbpracing]

it was intended as a joke.

the best type r ever made has a b-series in it imo

but then again it becomes a god when you put a k-series so idk now hmmm..

If I had my time over again and if had known my build was going to cost me ##k I would have gone k motor for sure :-)

[butterfingers]

32k?

its a honda not a fighter jet lol

please elaborate

[gbpracing]

32k?

its a honda not a fighter jet lol

please elaborate

Long story, see previous post

[ericl33]

LOL
The car is for fulltime track and needs to last as long as the last engine build, that being 10 years,,,
so is the 85mm the limit of the b20 sleeve?

[tinkerbell]

so is the 85mm the limit of the b20 sleeve?

no, 85mm is not the limit of the B20B sleeve.

[ericl33]

no, 85mm is not the limit of the B20B sleeve.
thanks.

[tinkerbell]

The car is for fulltime track and needs to last as long as the last engine build, that being 10 years,,,

so what class are you racing in?

with 85mm you are at 2020cc so in the over 2 litre class?

that is why i stayed at 84.5mm so i am in under 2 litre class...

[tinkerbell]

thanks.

but i doubt the benefits of such marginal increases in capacity could outweigh the risks of damage due to poor tuning/bad fuel...

[ericl33]

but i doubt the benefits of such marginal increases in capacity could outweigh the risks of damage due to poor tuning/bad fuel...
no, wasn't trying to push the limits of the sleeve, just curious:)

[tinkerbell]

to go reliably beyond 85mm you should re-sleeve the block...

e.g.

http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=1&chapter=0

[GSi_PSi]

dave, say you had 86mm sleeves in the b20 block and were racing in under2L class, how would the officials make sure your at under 1998cc capacity?

[gbpracing]

so what class are you racing in?

with 85mm you are at 2020cc so in the over 2 litre class?

that is why i stayed at 84.5mm so i am in under 2 litre class...

I use to race Improved Production but now I just run in the Piarc club sprints these days in the closed racecar up to 2500cc. Its more about beating my best lap times these days. So I expect to better the 1:51 at the Island that was set with my old 1.8 all motor race engine.

[tinkerbell]

dave, say you had 86mm sleeves in the b20 block and were racing in under2L class, how would the officials make sure your at under 1998cc capacity?

cheaters never prosper.

but it is covered by Part XII of the NCR: http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/11_ncr/NC01_NCR_2012-1.pdf

[gbpracing]

dave, say you had 86mm sleeves in the b20 block and were racing in under2L class, how would the officials make sure your at under 1998cc capacity?
Its called Honesty !! Like many sports you have those who cheat and motor racing at club level has plenty of them. To know you have beaten your opponents on a level playing field is more rewarding, those who win knowing they have cheated will burn in hell lol scum bags !!!

[mocchi]

cheaters never prosper.

but it is covered by Part XII of the NCR: http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/11_ncr/NC01_NCR_2012-1.pdf

the page cannot be found.

[tinkerbell]

you probly have to go through the disclaimer page: http://www.camsmanual.com.au/

[Water Boy]

I know a fair few guys have their motor's "sealed" with the engince capacity.

Its a tie wire that gets put on the sump with a crimp.

[SLOBRO]

I know a fair few guys have their motor's "sealed" with the engince capacity.

Its a tie wire that gets put on the sump with a crimp.
huh???

[tinkerbell]

huh???

sorry, you'll have to be more specific, which part of the previous post do you not understand?

[SLOBRO]

sorry, you'll have to be more specific, which part of the previous post do you not understand?
like all of it lol

[Bludger]

like all of it lol
have a look @ your electricity meter, there should be something similar on the meter.

[SLOBRO]

thanx lol i kinda get it now

[unl3a5h]

im looking at rebuilding my engine as a b20vtec just wondering since i travel from western suburbs to penrith a few times a week for uni will this build be reliable for traveling about 30,000 kms a year for a two years at least til im done with daily long travels? ive read about the reliability and everything but need to know for how long and are they daily drivers? etc

[ericl33]

im looking at rebuilding my engine as a b20vtec just wondering since i travel from western suburbs to penrith a few times a week for uni will this build be reliable for traveling about 30,000 kms a year for a two years at least til im done with daily long travels? ive read about the reliability and everything but need to know for how long and are they daily drivers? etc
I don't see why not, unless you fcuked up the build somehow.


you plan to use the block as is or rebuild with bore/hone and new rings?

also a more highly strung engine won't last as long as a more conservative engine.

[unl3a5h]

just a basic setup new rings maybe a bit of a refresh on the block and pretty much standard teg vtir head maybe a light pnp job and itr spec cams, springs and retainers or like a stage 2 skunk2 setup. hoping for around 130kw sound achievable ?