[Euro] Hondata Update

[snYpz]

^ thanks yfin.

Yeah thats another worrying aspect of Jtune especially with what happened to Merlin. I was under the impression that the mild flash was ok...or is that not the case? hmmm maybe i should forget abt it then :(

[Suntzu]

My flash is fine. I've been driving my car for 9 months with it. Its on the money.

Now I have the RBC and the reflash with a 5000rpm vtec and 7600rpm redline, when i shift from 1-2nd Im right in the money zone ( peak power) and it can and does spin the fronts in the dry a bit. I cant believe the the difference the RBC has made to the power delivery, throttle response and feel. Its just more fun.

I 100% agree with Yfin on the overall jtune issue, they promised a lot and doesnt sound like they delivered to their first extreme customers.

My experience has been fine though. I would have flashed it back if I had any concerns but I love it.

i would have preferred a proper tunable ecu but thats just not happening at the moment.

[EUR003act]

My flash is fine. I've been driving my car for 9 months with it. Its on the money.

Now I have the RBC and the reflash with a 5000rpm vtec and 7600rpm redline, when i shift from 1-2nd Im right in the money zone ( peak power) and it can and does spin the fronts in the dry a bit. I cant believe the the difference the RBC has made to the power delivery, throttle response and feel. Its just more fun.

I 100% agree with Yfin on the overall jtune issue, they promised a lot and doesnt sound like they delivered to their first extreme customers.

My experience has been fine though. I would have flashed it back if I had any concerns but I love it.

i would have preferred a proper tunable ecu but thats just not happening at the moment.


just curious you say your experience has been fine...

didnt they fry your ecu or something? and you couldnt drive your car for a week or two? :S

[Suntzu]

Oh yeah that happened. Took a week for them to sort it out.
I mean my experience with the actual results of the flash has been fine.

[Pumped]

Is the mild flash tune actually readily available now?

[Crapdaz]

Is the mild flash tune actually readily available now?
the mild flash has been around for a long time already.

just that depending on your location, you will most likely need to ship your key/immobiliser and ecu to them.

[snYpz]

I think i will forget abt rbc and mild flash. All i want is more response on take off and lower rpms. o well, guess i will save some extra cash then :D

[Chris_F]

What I'm waiting for is some feedback from members with the e-manage ultimate. If the ecu doesn't "re-learn" with the ultimate it's probably the most viable option at the moment.

There's also the HKS F-con V pro which is a bit more advanced than the ultimate (and more expensive). It's a piggy back aswell which apparently works just fine with drive by wire throttle.

[EUR003act]

anyone want to commment on the cheapest and easiest way to change my rev limit...

i know greddy e-manage ultimate has the option to, but does that function work on the euro?

any other cheaper options? :o

[snYpz]

I think i will pull the trigger for the mild reflash.

Problem is, the reflash now takes place in the US at Hondata; which apparently improves the success rate. Only problem for me is that I only have till mid to early January before i take off to Adelaide to work for a year. So either it gets done now or will have to wait till i come back.

Will let you guys know how it pans out.

BTW. There is heaps of praise for the hondata reflash for the TSX. Is that similar to the flash that we get, is it the mild or extreme flash etc? I have no idea :(

[Chris_F]

anyone want to commment on the cheapest and easiest way to change my rev limit...

i know greddy e-manage ultimate has the option to, but does that function work on the euro?

any other cheaper options? :o

I contacted ALN about this, and apparently the emanage ultimate has the ability to change the rev-limit but the function doesn't work with the accord euro.

I also asked him about the ECU re-learning and he said he had the ultimate in his car for 7 months with no power drop or driveability issues.

After doing some more research there appears to be a difference in the way you tune the car with the ultimate compared to some of the cheaper piggybacks like the Apexi VAFC. The e-manage doesn't just send a different voltage to the stock ECU. Instead the e-manage reads/intercepts the voltage from the standard ECU and creates its own output voltage which is then sent directly to the injectors.

This would probably explain why the standard ECU doesn't relearn the tune when using the ultimate.

The feedback from ALN is enough to convince me the e-manage ultimate is worthwhile. There's no other mods I can think of that can provide 10-15kw atw for $1500.

I'll let everyone know how it all goes...

[EUR003act]

I contacted ALN about this, and apparently the emanage ultimate has the ability to change the rev-limit but the function doesn't work with the accord euro.

I also asked him about the ECU re-learning and he said he had the ultimate in his car for 7 months with no power drop or driveability issues.

After doing some more research there appears to be a difference in the way you tune the car with the ultimate compared to some of the cheaper piggybacks like the Apexi VAFC. The e-manage doesn't just send a different voltage to the stock ECU. Instead the e-manage reads/intercepts the voltage from the standard ECU and creates its own output voltage which is then sent directly to the injectors.

This would probably explain why the standard ECU doesn't relearn the tune when using the ultimate.

The feedback from ALN is enough to convince me the e-manage ultimate is worthwhile. There's no other mods I can think of that can provide 10-15kw atw for $1500.

I'll let everyone know how it all goes...

cheers for that buddy! good info!

lol TODA headers... 10-12kw atw gain... $1500... :thumbsup:

[johnprocter]

lol wouldnt stage2 camshafts get you more than that for around $1500 installed?

[snYpz]

The feedback from ALN is enough to convince me the e-manage ultimate is worthwhile. There's no other mods I can think of that can provide 10-15kw atw for $1500.

I'll let everyone know how it all goes...

hmmm, if thats the case, i might holdback and wait and see how you go with the e-manage. Looks like the e-manage might have more gains as compared to the hondata flash.

I will be really keen to know whats necessary Chris and how all this goes...will also look for the e-manage thread too :D

I have been going around in circles!! :(

[Chris_F]

cheers for that buddy! good info!

lol TODA headers... 10-12kw atw gain... $1500... :thumbsup:

No worries, it's good to share :p

The 10-12kw gain for the Toda Header includes an after market metal substrate cat, so technically that's not one modification as some of the gains come from replacing the cat ;) Toda header, with metal cat all installed for $1500 also sounds a bit cheap?

I've got all the bolt-ons I want now, so tuning is the final piece of the puzzle. I almost feel guilty for not taking full advantage of some of the parts I have with a tune lol.


lol wouldnt stage2 camshafts get you more than that for around $1500 installed?

Negative captain... you're going to run into all sorts of driveability/reliability problems if you install stage2 camshafts without a proper tune. You might "get away with it" but there are very few workshops that would tell you installing cams without a tune is a good idea.

[aaronng]

lol wouldnt stage2 camshafts get you more than that for around $1500 installed?
Maybe, maybe not, especially without the appropriate compression

[kitbkk]

I have had my e-manage ultimate for a few months sitting at home..
will post in the emanage thread once I am free and get it tuned.

[Crapdaz]

I have had my e-manage ultimate for a few months sitting at home..
will post in the emanage thread once I am free and get it tuned.
i will too puahahaha :p
once i finish my performance mods first then will tune.

[Suntzu]

Very interested into hearing the outcome of this emanage kitbkk and Craodaz.

You will be setting a benchmark as I havent heard of anyone doing it.

Wondering about the ecu unlearning also ... but if the emamage actually delivers the complete signal i dont see how this will be a problem.

Is the emanage expensive in australia?

[tron07]

go for the stage2 camshafts at the same time with a piggyback like emannage..... then you will get more :p

[Chris_F]

Very interested into hearing the outcome of this emanage kitbkk and Craodaz.

You will be setting a benchmark as I havent heard of anyone doing it.

Wondering about the ecu unlearning also ... but if the emamage actually delivers the complete signal i dont see how this will be a problem.

Is the emanage expensive in australia?

Check this thread out for two Euro's that have run the ultimate:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79527&highlight=e-manage+ultimate

Like I said I contacted ALN and he said the ECU didn't relearn, even after 7 months.

Here's some more info about how the ultimate works:

Map(s)

Airflow Output Map - Previously labeled “Airflow Adjustment Map” is now “Airflow Output Map”. (#)This can now used to eliminate the factory airflow meter. This is done by directly inputting voltage or frequency in to this map.
Anti Engine Stall Feature - The 8 adjustment cells are now upgraded to 16 cells, for even finer adjustment.
Injection Adjustment Map - Fuel trimming in the previous system was achieved by adjusting the “Airflow Adjustment Map” which could also affect the ignition timing. The improved “Injection Adjustment Map” is used to trim and add fuel directly by controlling the injector signal, therefor it will not affect the ignition timing at all. (However with an internal jumper setting change, the system is still able to trim the fuel by adjusting the airflow signal like the previous unit)
Acceleration Injection Map - Like the “Injection Adjustment Map”, the “Acceleration Injection Map” can trim fuel by controlling the injector signal. This is used if it is necessary to smooth rapid transitions to wide open throttle.
Individual Cylinder Injection Adj. & Individual Cylinder Ignition Adj. Maps - It is possible to correct uneven combustion between cylinders, by fine tuning each individual cylinder for more advanced tuning.
Vehicle Speed Correction Map - Inconsistencies due to differences in vehicle speed (difference in load) can be corrected with this map.
Coolant Temp Correction Map (Must be Selected with Knock Signal 1) - When the ECU Coolant Temp Calibration does not match the e-manage’s tuning, this map is used to tune the system at various temperature ranges.
Intake Air Temp Correction Map (Must be Selected with Knock Signal 2) - When the ECU Intake Air Temp Calibration does not match the e-manage’s tuning, this map is used to tune the system at various temperature ranges. (#)This map is also be used when eliminating the airflow meter on a vehicle equipped with a hotwire type airflow meter.
Rev Limiter Cut - For vehicles with a fuel cutting controlled rev limiter, this feature will drive the injectors past the factory rev limiter. *This feature will not work on vehicles with rev limiter controlled by ignition cut.
A/F Target Value Map (feedback tuning function) - By inputting target Air Fuel values in this map, “e-mange Ultimate” will automatically make corrections to the “Injection Map,” if an A/F meter (*high quality) is connected to the Auxiliary Output signal. This feature can shorten the tuning time.
Ignition Adjustment Map - The “Ignition Adjustment Map” can accurately advance ignition timing by controlling the crank angle / cam angle signal.
Acceleration Ignition Map - Ignition timing can also be corrected for a rapid change in the throttle opening rate for a smoother transition into wide open throttle.
NVCS Control Map - NVCS (Nissan Valve Control System) can be controlled with out the need for NVCS Adapter 1.
Analog Output Map - This feature can be used to eliminate the factory boost cut function on vehicles that are equipped with both an airflow meter and a pressure sensor (i.e.: FC3S, Subaru). Also, on some vehicles, the factory feedback range can be adjusted by outputting a corrected throttle position signal.
Auxilary Output Map - The fixed 4x4 map on the previous unit is now a fully adjustable 16x16 map. Set your own "ON" and "OFF" conditions.
Idle Stabilization Map - If the factory idle control valve is a solenoid type valve, this map can vary the valve’s duration to adjust the injection rate. (#)This is used when eliminating the airflow meter.

source: http://www.titanmotorsports.com/greul.html

[D R U]

Crapdaz and kitbkk

Are either of you going to be running the v-manage as well?

[Crapdaz]

Crapdaz and kitbkk

Are either of you going to be running the v-manage as well?

no, i am getting drilled by my parents to stop wasting money on the car and spend money on my future e.g saving for a house.


Very interested into hearing the outcome of this emanage kitbkk and Craodaz.

You will be setting a benchmark as I havent heard of anyone doing it.

Wondering about the ecu unlearning also ... but if the emamage actually delivers the complete signal i dont see how this will be a problem.

Is the emanage expensive in australia?
The piggyback harness bypasses the ECU from relearning.

Cost should be around $600-700 or so depending where you get it from and then tuning is like another $650.

[kitbkk]

same here, I wont be spending anymore to my car...
Tuning will probably the last thing I do to it.

[r-r-redEuro]

Very interested into hearing the outcome of this emanage kitbkk and Craodaz.

You will be setting a benchmark as I havent heard of anyone doing it.

Wondering about the ecu unlearning also ... but if the emamage actually delivers the complete signal i dont see how this will be a problem.

Is the emanage expensive in australia?

fatfish on this forum is running emanage. its also tuned. i dont think he had dyno'd yet but im pretty sure he will get around 130-140kw atw.

[johnprocter]

fatfish on this forum is running emanage. its also tuned. i dont think he had dyno'd yet but im pretty sure he will get around 130-140kw atw.

what car?

[Chris_F]

fatfish has an Accord euro ;)

[johnprocter]

lol sorry ment what mods on the car >_< ahh too much study makes me go crazy

[tron07]

fatfish on this forum is running emanage. its also tuned. i dont think he had dyno'd yet but im pretty sure he will get around 130-140kw atw.

how to tune without dyno :eek:

[BusterSonic12]

how to tune without dyno :eek:

street tuned :thumbsup: i know ben from touge tune also does street tune

[TRaNz]

same here, I wont be spending anymore to my car...
Tuning will probably the last thing I do to it.

All lies i tell you, he's probably almost done saving up for some uber baller mod. :p

[tron07]

Not to dish any tuner, but I feel butt tuning is not that good nor accurate...

its like going to a doctor and the doctor touch your forehead and say, hmmmm slight fever/no fever/high fever.... where other doctor use termometers or some sort of measurement device which is properly calibrated.

[D R U]

Not to dish any tuner, but I feel butt tuning is not that good nor accurate...

its like going to a doctor and the doctor touch your forehead and say, hmmmm slight fever/no fever/high fever.... where other doctor use termometers or some sort of measurement device which is properly calibrated.

Its not butt tuning, more like reving it out on the street, so you can see, where fuel/ignition can be altered to gain more power.

A dyno bascially simulates this.

The tune's not going to be as good as a dyno run (no many roads you can rev out 4th gear). But there will defnitely be gains.

[EUR003act]

Its not butt tuning, more like reving it out on the street, so you can see, where fuel/ignition can be altered to gain more power.

A dyno bascially simulates this.

The tune's not going to be as good as a dyno run (no many roads you can rev out 4th gear). But there will defnitely be gains.

theyll be gains... yes... but on the street you have no way of measuring the torque/horsepower differences your tuning is actually doing...

i think thats what he was saying...

the best way to tune is on a constant load dyno.. :thumbsup:

[aaronng]

To tune on the street, you need a wideband O2 sensor to measure A/F ratio, which is handled by the sensor on the dyno. The street on 1st and 2nd gears also don't simulate enough load on the engine. So you can't tune to the limit on the street because if you hit a steep hill, the combination might be too much and you start getting pinging.

[r-r-redEuro]

lol sorry ment what mods on the car >_< ahh too much study makes me go crazy

mods, hmm he's barely even on these forums so i'll tell you on his behalf =).

he's running mugen catback exhaust, maxim works(feels) headers, gruppe M intake, Emanage, spoon calipers, G-Games 18" rims, buddy club N+ sussys. and thats all i know from a while back, im catching up with him soon might see what else he has done. last time i talked to him he was going to run a k20 top end, and something else i forgot lol.

[johnprocter]

mods, hmm he's barely even on these forums so i'll tell you on his behalf =).

he's running mugen catback exhaust, maxim works(feels) headers, gruppe M intake, Emanage, spoon calipers, G-Games 18" rims, buddy club N+ sussys. and thats all i know from a while back, im catching up with him soon might see what else he has done. last time i talked to him he was going to run a k20 top end, and something else i forgot lol.

maybe cams too? baller ! is he in sydney? i think i've seen him in north sydney area before, does he have a mugen kit?

[BusterSonic12]

mods, hmm he's barely even on these forums so i'll tell you on his behalf =).

he's running mugen catback exhaust, maxim works(feels) headers, gruppe M intake, Emanage, spoon calipers, G-Games 18" rims, buddy club N+ sussys. and thats all i know from a while back, im catching up with him soon might see what else he has done. last time i talked to him he was going to run a k20 top end, and something else i forgot lol.

who's this we talking about? a damn serious euro :thumbsup:

[snYpz]

^ think its fatfish...i think he has the purple blue euro with oem kit?

[Crapdaz]

^ think its fatfish...i think he has the purple blue euro with oem kit?

didn't he have the mugen kit with mugen wing. :p

[akina]

i think its the mugen kit with the DC5R wing :D

[BusterSonic12]

oh the you guys talking about Peter's euro?

The auto purple euro with mugen kit and DC5R wing, it looks damn nice!! It's pretty hardcore with gruppe m, maxim headers, top quality parts spent on the car.

[snYpz]

^ With the combined efforts from a few of us, we have finally found out the description of fatfish's car lol

I once saw it at kensington going past, rare colour, and you can never miss the wing :p

[r-r-redEuro]

fatfish on this forum is running emanage. its also tuned. i dont think he had dyno'd yet but im pretty sure he will get around 130-140kw atw.

yes its fatfish's car i stated that earlier here:

fatfish on this forum is running emanage. its also tuned. i dont think he had dyno'd yet but im pretty sure he will get around 130-140kw atw.

lol, rare colour indeed as he takes care of his paint like no one else ive seen, aaron has detailed his car once. lol

he has the OEM kit with the type R wing just to confirm that to everyone. =)

[Crapdaz]

oooh alright last time i had a closer look at the wing and have to say the car as a whole is hectic.

but the way how the wing is sitting looks a bit funny. <--- not sure about when it's sitting on the DC5R but prob the same when close up.

[aaronng]

lol, rare colour indeed as he takes care of his paint like no one else ive seen, aaron has detailed his car once. lol


And the last time I saw his car, which was about 2.5 years after I detailed his car, the paint was back to its swirly condition. :(

[Crapdaz]

And the last time I saw his car, which was about 2.5 years after I detailed his car, the paint was back to its swirly condition. :(
detail my car too please!!! :p

[johnprocter]

aaron can u link me to ur DIY ghetto box iam gonna attempt to make it in a week after my exams ! summer isnt going to mess up my SRI yo!

[aaronng]

detail my car too please!!! :p
I've stopped detailing for others now that I have a full time job. :p
Nothing stopping us from having a detailing day if you have a large enough driveway. hahaha

Anyway, back on topic! Hondata!

[aaronng]

aaron can u link me to ur DIY ghetto box iam gonna attempt to make it in a week after my exams ! summer isnt going to mess up my SRI yo!

It's in the DIY section. Search for Ghetto and threads started by me, you'll find this: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53595&highlight=ghetto

[BlueR_Surfer]

Hey All,

Just like to say , GO FOR HONDATA AND A GOOD TUNER!!!!!!!!

You will never go wrong with it.

Other Competitor's will not be able to come close to wat Hondata is providing.

Think about Cam's setup in the future????????

So far , we have tried a few set-up's like:

With Cam's Setup
-----------------
- Jun with Hondata
- Skunk2 with Hondata
- Toda With Hondata
- BC with Hondata
- Skunk2 with Unichip
- BC with Unichip
- Toda with Unichip
- Skunk2 with Emanage Ultimate
- BC with Emanage
- Toda with Emanage

ECU Setup
----------
- Spoon P&P
- J's Racing P&P
- Unichip
- Hondata
- Emanage Ultimate

Bottom-line , Hondata & Toda is the way to go. It Provide me with gains throughout all power bands.

This is only me and my buddies views , just some information to share for you guys.

Hope it helps!!!!!!

Cherio!!!!
:)

[aaronng]

Hey All,

Just like to say , GO FOR HONDATA AND A GOOD TUNER!!!!!!!!

You will never go wrong with it.

Other Competitor's will not be able to come close to wat Hondata is providing.

Think about Cam's setup in the future????????

So far , we have tried a few set-up's like:

With Cam's Setup
-----------------
- Jun with Hondata
- Skunk2 with Hondata
- Toda With Hondata
- BC with Hondata
- Skunk2 with Unichip
- BC with Unichip
- Toda with Unichip
- Skunk2 with Emanage Ultimate
- BC with Emanage
- Toda with Emanage

ECU Setup
----------
- Spoon P&P
- J's Racing P&P
- Unichip
- Hondata
- Emanage Ultimate

Bottom-line , Hondata & Toda is the way to go. It Provide me with gains throughout all power bands.

This is only me and my buddies views , just some information to share for you guys.

Hope it helps!!!!!!

Cherio!!!!
:)
CL9 can't use Kpro or K100 without a piggyback harness and a spare CL7/DC5R ECU........... unlike CL7. :)

[BlueR_Surfer]

CL9 can't use Kpro or K100 without a piggyback harness and a spare CL7/DC5R ECU........... unlike CL7. :)

Yeah i know mate , but wat i am saying is just stick to the reflash of Hondata. Dont go for others!!!!!

You will never go wrong with it.

Cheers!
:):):)

[aaronng]

Yeah i know mate , but wat i am saying is just stick to the reflash of Hondata. Dont go for others!!!!!

You will never go wrong with it.

Cheers!
:):):)

Yes, but the Hondata reflash has nothing to do with the setups that you listed. The Hondata tune used in the reflash was developed here in Australia by someone not from Hondata USA.

[Chris_F]

There are better ECU's out there than hondata, but for the money it's very hard to beat. Unfortuneately, the cost of getting a hondata running on a CL9 means it's not really that cost effective anymore.

I'm actually looking at a recently released Australian ecu called vi-pec.

www.vi-pec.com

The guy behind the vi-pec ecu's is Ray Hall who used to be involved with Autronic in a pretty major way. The vi-pec v88 is capable of controlling drive by wire (approx. $200 option), can control variable valve timing and even comes with a traction control feature.

I'm also in talks with a local workshop about the lower model v44 ecu. It can't control drive-by-wire but may be able to work in conjunction with the factory ecu.

For those that are interested, approximate pricing:

v44 ecu, including sensors and harness ~ $1650
V44 installed and tuned ~ $2200-2500

v88 ecu, including sensors and harness ~ $2250
v88 ecu, including sensors, harness and drive-by-wire option ~$2500
v88 ecu installed and tuned - $3000-$3500

While these prices may sound expensive it's important to consider that they are a universal stand alone ecu. i.e. they will work with any car you may buy in the future. The v88 can also run full sequential injection/ignition on cars with up to 8 cylinders. Both the v44 and v88 can also control variable valve timing for up to 4 cams at once. Mapping resolution is 32x32 etc. etc.

I've done a lot of research into this ecu, and so far it's looking very promising. Will let everyone know how it pans out...

[Euro08Jaz]

thanks for the research, we really do need alternatives to hondata, as desirable as it is.

i guess after i've done my bolt on mods this may be the next logical step, expensive though.

[aaronng]

thanks for the research, we really do need alternatives to hondata, as desirable as it is.

i guess after i've done my bolt on mods this may be the next logical step, expensive though.

Which Hondata ecu are you referring to? I don't find the reflash desirable.

[Chris_F]

thanks for the research, we really do need alternatives to hondata, as desirable as it is.

i guess after i've done my bolt on mods this may be the next logical step, expensive though.

Sure it's expensive, but it's expensive for a reason.

An intake, header and exhaust can easily cost anywhere from $2000-$4000 and for about the same money a good ecu with a good tune will easily net the same increase in power as those bolt-ons (and probably more). You also open up a whole world of possibilities with what you can do to the motor. Upgraded cams, high compression pistons etc. Those more extreme mods are only possible when you have an ECU to tune it.

So in that respect, the value for money is still there, it's just a larger lump sum payment. Still, it's a necessary step when you start looking at more serious engine work (in my opinion).


Which Hondata ecu are you referring to? I don't find the reflash desirable.

lol

[enkay]

^ legend. =P

[Euro08Jaz]

rumors being circulated by marcus suggest that kpro will be at sema

the offending post: :p

Hondata an option finally!

We had spoken with an inside source and there is a dual ECU setup K-PRO going to be released for the TSX very shortly. It is being unveiled at SEMA.

The cost of an additional ECU, the harness, and the K-Pro means that is won't be an inexpensive option...but an option none-the less!


Marcus

[Chris_F]

if it costs more than AU$2200, Vi-PEC wins :)

[aaronng]

rumors being circulated by marcus suggest that kpro will be at sema

the offending post: :p

Hondata an option finally!

We had spoken with an inside source and there is a dual ECU setup K-PRO going to be released for the TSX very shortly. It is being unveiled at SEMA.

The cost of an additional ECU, the harness, and the K-Pro means that is won't be an inexpensive option...but an option none-the less!


Marcus
This is just an official Hondata product. The dual ECU with custom harness has existed for at least 2 years, just that the harness was not made by Hondata.

[aaronng]

if it costs more than AU$2200, Vi-PEC wins :)

On a Honda, the VI-PEC seems like an Emanage Ultimate on drugs.

[Chris_F]

On a Honda, the VI-PEC seems like an Emanage Ultimate on drugs.

No way, it's much more than an e-manage ultimate on drugs.

The vi-pec v88 is a full standalone ecu that can control VTEC engagement, VTC and drive by wire. It also has 32x32 resolution mapping, traction control and a host of other features.

It makes the e-manage ultimate look like a toy. By the time you add a V-manage it'll cost you just as much for something with less features.

There are also plans to release a drive by wire module for the v44 so it can act as a full stand alone with drive by wire cars aswell.

There's no comparison in my opinion.

[aaronng]

No way, it's much more than an e-manage ultimate on drugs.

The vi-pec v88 is a full standalone ecu that can control VTEC engagement, VTC and drive by wire. It also has 32x32 resolution mapping, traction control and a host of other features.

It makes the e-manage ultimate look like a toy. By the time you add a V-manage it'll cost you just as much for something with less features.

There are also plans to release a drive by wire module for the v44 so it can act as a full stand alone with drive by wire cars aswell.

There's no comparison in my opinion.
I see, because it says "Also plugin ECU based on the V44 and V88 for Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda and Toyota cars". Honda is not listed there. When will you trial it out?

[Chris_F]

I see, because it says "Also plugin ECU based on the V44 and V88 for Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda and Toyota cars". Honda is not listed there. When will you trial it out?

There's actually a plugin listed on the site for the 92-95 eg civics and 96-99 Ek Civics aswell. And althought there's no plug-ins available for the K-series engined hondas I've confirmed with my local vi-pec dealer that the ecu is compatible with the K-series.

I actually dowloaded the Vi-Pec tuning software to confrim it too. It has options to choose VTEC solenoid outputs and you can configure Honda specific VTC outputs aswell.

The ECU will need to be wired into our cars though. The prices I quoted before actually include the cost of the ecu, wiring/installation and tuning. Drive in, drive out.

To get a similarly spec'd MOTEC ecu to work with the accord euro including the traction control and drive by wire features, you're looking at a minimum of $6k installed and tuned. In comparison, the Vi-Pec looks like a bargain.

[aaronng]

There's actually a plugin listed on the site for the 92-95 eg civics and 96-99 Ek Civics aswell. And althought there's no plug-ins available for the K-series engined hondas I've confirmed with my local vi-pec dealer that the ecu is compatible with the K-series.

I actually dowloaded the Vi-Pec tuning software to confrim it too. It has options to choose VTEC solenoid outputs and you can configure Honda specific VTC outputs aswell.

The ECU will need to be wired into our cars though. The prices I quoted before actually include the cost of the ecu, wiring/installation and tuning. Drive in, drive out.

To get a similarly spec'd MOTEC ecu to work with the accord euro including the traction control and drive by wire features, you're looking at a minimum of $6k installed and tuned. In comparison, the Vi-Pec looks like a bargain.
The B series (and also H and F) would be alright to use standalone ECUs as all the ECU does is to manage the engines. When it comes to the K and also the new R engines, the ECU does a bit more than just the engine, which is the reason why I suspect that it will be a piggyback solution for the Euro, rather than a case of swapping out the ECU with the VI-PEC. Even Hondata has conceded to that fact by offering a piggyback version of the Kpro using that 2nd ECU and patch harness.

[Chris_F]

The B series (and also H and F) would be alright to use standalone ECUs as all the ECU does is to manage the engines. When it comes to the K and also the new R engines, the ECU does a bit more than just the engine, which is the reason why I suspect that it will be a piggyback solution for the Euro, rather than a case of swapping out the ECU with the VI-PEC. Even Hondata has conceded to that fact by offering a piggyback version of the Kpro using that 2nd ECU and patch harness.

Even if the factory ECU does need to be retained with the vi-pec the factory ecu will have no input into any of the engine controls. In my eyes that means it's no longer a "piggy back" in the traditional sense. The same can be said for the hondata solution. You may be retaining the factory ecu but you'll be tuning the engine just like you would if you were using a standalone ecu. That's why I think a comparison to an e-manage ultimate is a bit miss leading. The ultimate does control some outputs independently from the factory ecu though and that's why it's the best piggyback solution available for the euro at the moment.

When your using a proper standalone ECU that maintains the factory ecu for non-engine related controls I'd say it's probably more accurate to call it a "paralell" setup and not a "piggy back". I'd hate to think that a Kpro or Vi-pec were given the same label as an apexi vafc... ew!

[Euro08Jaz]

rumors being circulated by marcus suggest that kpro will be at sema

the offending post: :p

Hondata an option finally!

We had spoken with an inside source and there is a dual ECU setup K-PRO going to be released for the TSX very shortly. It is being unveiled at SEMA.

The cost of an additional ECU, the harness, and the K-Pro means that is won't be an inexpensive option...but an option none-the less!


Marcus

your both on drugs

anyway what does this development mean for us? will i be able to use the comptech sc kit?

[aaronng]

When your using a proper standalone ECU that maintains the factory ecu for non-engine related controls I'd say it's probably more accurate to call it a "paralell" setup and not a "piggy back". I'd hate to think that a Kpro or Vi-pec were given the same label as an apexi vafc... ew!

I put the VAFC under the category of "interceptors", which are a POS in my opinion. :p

[Chris_F]

I put the VAFC under the category of "interceptors", which are a POS in my opinion. :p

Yea I agree. interceptors/piggy backs that simply alter the signal going into the factory ecu = POS.


A rank order of ecu's/flashes that work on the Acoord Euro (from worst to best if money is no object):


Apexi VAFC
Greddy E-manage blue
Haltech Interceptor
Greddy E-manage ultimate
HKS F-con IS*
Hondata Reflash*
Greddy E-mange ultimate + Greddy V-manage
HKS F-con V Pro*
EFI Euro 1*
EFI Euro 4*
Vi-pec V88
Motec m400 (fully optioned)

* = limited availability/difficult to aquire


Ecu's pending availability:


Hondata dual ecu Kpro
Vi-pec V44 (drive by wire module in development)


If anyone can think of any other ecu's or believes my rank order is wrong let me know and I'll keep it updated :thumbsup:

[BusterSonic12]

what about emanage ulti + v manage? when i was overseas, i saw greddy f manage, anyone what that is?

[Chris_F]

what about emanage ulti + v manage? when i was overseas, i saw greddy f manage, anyone what that is?

list updated with v-manage

the f-manage is used to control the feedback loop to the factory ecu. All the documentation about it is in japanese so I don't know much more than that.

[EUR003act]

after dissing the greddy emanage for ages and not liking piggy back ecus...

i did alot of research on the greddy ultimate...

and i have changed my thinking... the greddy ultimate is not your typical piggyback ecu... it doesnt alter signals before they get to the ecu like traditional "interceptors"... but instead it sits between the ecus output and the car functions input... example:

Stock ECU --> GReddy Ultimate --> Injectors

by doing this, not only can you add or increase fuel/ignition, but you can retard...

and the stock ECU can not relearn because it doesnt know its doing any different!

in addition to this, features like being able to clamp or alter the MAP and throttle sensors, means the car can be forced to stay in open loop mode for complete control... or you could even add turbo/super charger without problems :thumbsup:

with the addition of v-manage, you can control VTC... comparing Ultimate + Vmanage and K-Pro in terms of VTEC and VTC tinkering, they are both nearly identical in what they can do!

yes this ViPEC thing looks awesome, but if its a replacement ECU, it wouldnt be able to control the euros dash...

[johnprocter]

whats up with the jtune website?? i was interested in getting the ECU tune now that i have I/H/E done... where in sydney can i get it done?

[Darkii_]

its still up?

http://www.jtune.com.au/price.html

[Chris_F]

after dissing the greddy emanage for ages and not liking piggy back ecus...

i did alot of research on the greddy ultimate...

and i have changed my thinking... the greddy ultimate is not your typical piggyback ecu... it doesnt alter signals before they get to the ecu like traditional "interceptors"... but instead it sits between the ecus output and the car functions input... example:

Stock ECU --> GReddy Ultimate --> Injectors

by doing this, not only can you add or increase fuel/ignition, but you can retard...

and the stock ECU can not relearn because it doesnt know its doing any different!

in addition to this, features like being able to clamp or alter the MAP and throttle sensors, means the car can be forced to stay in open loop mode for complete control... or you could even add turbo/super charger without problems :thumbsup:

with the addition of v-manage, you can control VTC... comparing Ultimate + Vmanage and K-Pro in terms of VTEC and VTC tinkering, they are both nearly identical in what they can do!

yes this ViPEC thing looks awesome, but if its a replacement ECU, it wouldnt be able to control the euros dash...

You're seeing the light! I really think an e-manage ultimate would do wonders for your car and help get it running right. $1500 well spent (though probably more given the exchange rate).

The Vi-Pec is a full replacement ECU, but an experienced workshop will be able to keep the stock ecu wired in to control the dash and any other non-engine related features. The e-manage ultimate + v-manage is still a a step behind what the Vi-Pec and K-pro can do.

e-manage ultimate: 16x16 mapping, only has fully independent control of ignition (doesn't it?). Also the V-manage is another $1k installed and tuned along side the ultimate. Fully installed and tuned you're already at $2500 and that's a conservative cost estimate. The advantage is, it's tried and tested and will definitely be able to maintain the factory VSA.

Vi-Pec v44: 32x32 mapping for fuel and ignition, fully independent control of all engine functions, full VTC control out of the box, full sequential ignition (1 ignition output for each spark plug) and ability to work with tf-electronics drive by wire controller to allow you to controll the throttle directly (idle speed, throttle opening vs. pedal position etc.). The downside is it's not tried and tested on the Accord Euro. It's also highly unlikely that the factory VSA will be maintained. But the Vi-Pec does come with a traction control out of the box. Installed and tuned I was quoted about $2600 max.

The owner of vi-pec also owns another company called tf-electronics they make an electronic throttle controller:

http://www.tfelectronics.com.au/PageFiles/throttlecontrol.html

on the site it says it works for XR6 turbo and Subaru WRX Sti, but I've contacted the owner and he says it's capable of working on some honda applications. It's probably what I'll be using on my car along with a vipec v44. (The v88 has the hardware built in for drive by wire but they're yet to finalise/release the software that lets you use it). The way this unit works though... it lets you use any after market ECU with a DBW car.. ANY. Just what the doctor ordered :thumbsup:

IMO, when your looking at $2500 for an ultimate + v-manage, $2600 for the Vi-Pec seems like a no brainer.

[EUR003act]

the emanage ultimate does have fully independant control of ignition and injectors :D

it also has sequential ignition... and air temp compensation tables...

yeah it is only 16x16 mapping, but benefit is it has two sets of injector and ignition tables... so just like k-pro, you can have tuning for low and high cam :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

vi-pec sounds good, but when it comes to tuning, as you say, emanage is tried and tested...

maybe you should get the vi-pec hehe be the guinea pig for us all! :p

[Chris_F]

the emanage ultimate does have fully independant control of ignition and injectors :D

it also has sequential ignition... and air temp compensation tables...

yeah it is only 16x16 mapping, but benefit is it has two sets of injector and ignition tables... so just like k-pro, you can have tuning for low and high cam :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

vi-pec sounds good, but when it comes to tuning, as you say, emanage is tried and tested...

maybe you should get the vi-pec hehe be the guinea pig for us all! :p

Damn, then it's even better than I thought.

I'm not sure what you mean about having one map for the low cam and the high cam though. Having two sets of maps on the ultiamte means you can change between two maps, one for street/one for the track or one for 95 octane/one for 98 octane (that sort of thing). You tune the entire RPM range with one 16x16 map (256 tuneable points). That's how I understand it anyway.

Yep, someones always gotta be the first to try something, and I'm dealing with a reputable workshop so I don't mind if that's me. I'd rather have an ecu with built in VTC control than having to go for a ultimate + v-manage setup (which is also untested).

[EUR003act]

Damn, then it's even better than I thought.

I'm not sure what you mean about having one map for the low cam and the high cam though. Having two sets of maps on the ultiamte means you can change between two maps, one for street/one for the track or one for 95 octane/one for 98 octane (that sort of thing). You tune the entire RPM range with one 16x16 map (256 tuneable points). That's how I understand it anyway.

Yep, someones always gotta be the first to try something, and I'm dealing with a reputable workshop so I don't mind if that's me. I'd rather have an ecu with built in VTC control than having to go for a ultimate + v-manage setup (which is also untested).

if you've ever played around with k-pro... it has two sets of tables... one for when the engines on low cam, one for high cam... the same can be done with emanage... yes, normally one table is for street and one for race... but you can wire the seletor switch into the vtec output, so evertime vtec engages, its flicks over to the second map :D

yeah VTC is definately something worth controlling... i read somewhere (from a few different tuners) that in the K-series all the power is had from VTC tuning and not so much the VTEC engagement point...

[Chris_F]

if you've ever played around with k-pro... it has two sets of tables... one for when the engines on low cam, one for high cam... the same can be done with emanage... yes, normally one table is for street and one for race... but you can wire the seletor switch into the vtec output, so evertime vtec engages, its flicks over to the second map :D

yeah VTC is definately something worth controlling... i read somewhere (from a few different tuners) that in the K-series all the power is had from VTC tuning and not so much the VTEC engagement point...

I guess the advantage of that is that you can tune the entire rpm range on the low cam then the entire rpm on the high cam. Then you could change the vtec point to whatever you want without having to retune anything.

Yea having a variably timed cam is a pretty neat feature. Even the 10 second honda drag cars in the states keep the VTC functioning to help dial in the intake cam.

I was considering getting an Integra 50* VTC mechanism but have decided against that because of potential clerance problems and I don't know of any reputable machine shops that would be able to properly machine the standard 25* VTC to 45*.

More aggressive cams usually require less advance anyway so 25* shouldn't be too bad with some stage 2 cams.

Another thing I just realised, apparently the e-manage ultimate is unable to raise the rev limiter on the accord euro as the standard ECU won't let it. In your car with the upgraded valve train in the integra head you would be able to rev to at least 7600rpm and maybe even 8000rpm all day long so it'd be a shame not to take advantage of that.

[EUR003act]

Another thing I just realised, apparently the e-manage ultimate is unable to raise the rev limiter on the accord euro as the standard ECU won't let it. In your car with the upgraded valve train in the integra head you would be able to rev to at least 7600rpm and maybe even 8000rpm all day long so it'd be a shame not to take advantage of that.

yeah that is one thing i want to look at...

i know the emanage can eliminate rev limiter on cars that use an injector cut... (which the euro does) but i think it also shuts the TB...? im not 100% on that yet, im going to have to do some testing to find out whether thats possible... :thumbsup:

[Merlin086]

I've probably said too much already to take the chance of my ECU not "going missing" or some similar catastrophe occurring (it could get fried!) , and then I might not have a car for months....

My first option would be to replace the exhaust with another performance system, and retain the ECU flash as is.
As it is, the exhaust system could be replaced in a few hours...the ECU is a different matter.....

As you see, I am between a rock and a hard place...:(:o:confused:



I thought I had better write up a carefully worded outcome to my extreme package dilemma, as I have had a number of people PM me as to the outcome.

I've been avoiding posting in case I say something in contravention of the gag order I had to sign in order to get my refund for my headers.

I had a custom set manufactured by their dealer APC Racing in Brisbane.They did a excellent job, and did the required mods to stop the rubbing on the chassis and so far no welds have seperated...:thumbsup:

Although I have been told that having these fitted will now void the warranty on the rest of the exhaust system. I'm confused because after it was fitted and paid for in Nov 07, I was told that it would be replaced with a new one in Jan 08 because the one fitted to my car still had manufacturing faults and was actually a prototype.
Hmm....how can I lose a warranty on a temporary part while still waiting for the final system?

At the time of fitting the headers the installer also advised me that a weld on the exhaust is now starting to crack. More repairs!



So, that's the current episode.....partially resolved........:zip:

[Crapdaz]

I thought I had better write up a carefully worded outcome to my extreme package dilemma, as I have had a number of people PM me as to the outcome.

I've been avoiding posting in case I say something in contravention of the gag order I had to sign in order to get my refund for my headers.

I had a custom set manufactured by their dealer APC Racing in Brisbane.They did a excellent job, and did the required mods to stop the rubbing on the chassis and so far no welds have seperated...:thumbsup:

Although I have been told that having these fitted will now void the warranty on the rest of the exhaust system. I'm confused because after it was fitted and paid for in Nov 07, I was told that it would be replaced with a new one in Jan 08 because the one fitted to my car still had manufacturing faults and was actually a prototype.
Hmm....how can I lose a warranty on a temporary part while still waiting for the final system?

At the time of fitting the headers the installer also advised me that a weld on the exhaust is now starting to crack. More repairs!



So, that's the current episode.....partially resolved........:zip:
thats so stuffed, but at least its half resolved. goodluck with the rest mate...

[yfin]

A confidentiality agreement in exchange for a refund on a faulty product.

That speaks volumes about the people who run Jtune. Instead of looking after customers and making them happy - do whatever you can to shut them up.

[tony1234]

A confidentiality agreement in exchange for a refund on a faulty product.

That speaks volumes about the people who run Jtune. Instead of looking after customers and making them happy - do whatever you can to shut them up.
Yeah it's a pity.It all sounded so promising.Au version of Hondata.(the reflash gets such a good rap over in the states)then all we get is empty promises,over inflated prices and products of dubious quality.:thumbdwn:

[johnprocter]

Yeah it's a pity.It all sounded so promising.Au version of Hondata.(the reflash gets such a good rap over in the states)then all we get is empty promises,over inflated prices and products of dubious quality.:thumbdwn:

Hahaha well put dude.

[Ozluder]

I thought I had better write up a carefully worded outcome to my extreme package dilemma, as I have had a number of people PM me as to the outcome.

I've been avoiding posting in case I say something in contravention of the gag order I had to sign in order to get my refund for my headers.

I had a custom set manufactured by their dealer APC Racing in Brisbane.They did a excellent job, and did the required mods to stop the rubbing on the chassis and so far no welds have seperated...:thumbsup:

Although I have been told that having these fitted will now void the warranty on the rest of the exhaust system. I'm confused because after it was fitted and paid for in Nov 07, I was told that it would be replaced with a new one in Jan 08 because the one fitted to my car still had manufacturing faults and was actually a prototype.
Hmm....how can I lose a warranty on a temporary part while still waiting for the final system?

At the time of fitting the headers the installer also advised me that a weld on the exhaust is now starting to crack. More repairs!



So, that's the current episode.....partially resolved........:zip:

Hey have you got the final system yet? Or are they still not "perfect" for release?

[Merlin086]

Hey have you got the final system yet? Or are they still not "perfect" for release?

Glad I didn't hold my breath waiting for the "perfect product" after I was sold mine and then told it was still a prototype.

It's been 16 months now and I'm still waiting..............:eek:

Although I think all activity at the workshop in question is on hold, as I notice there have been no posts by blkcrx in over 6 months on his own site.

Hmm, must be laying low.........:eek::o:confused:

[Crapdaz]

yeh before you send your hounds on him :p