NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging

[denot]

A 911S would do this old fella nicely, as long as it was white......lol

shush buddah :p

[buddah51au]

shush buddah :p

That comment was meant for you MR DENOT & you took the bait - hook, line & sinker......lol

[SPQR]

I was going to make an observation of this thread and an assessment of it's usefulness but then I remembered what happened the last time I opened my keyboard.

[Bilt]

Buddah, you keep referring to this being a dead issued and the matter being resolved. Given my car still pings I don't feel so. It's probably similar to Irvings as I can only hear minimal pinging sometimes (not always) and only when the windows are shut. My wife can not hear it from her side of the car.

My question to you is are you able to elaborate how the fix should be applied, ie correctly. What order ? Do we now need to tell Honda how to apply a fix ?

In any case, I'm curious as I'm more than happy to advise them on how to apply the fix if you know given they can't apply it themselves.

What Honda Dealer do you go to ? I'm happy to contact them or have my Honda Dealer call them direct to explain this to them.

Too be honest, I doubt there's a difference.

In any case, I'm curious. Just seems strange to me that Honda is not seeking feedback from it's customers rather than just sweep this whole issue under the carpet.

If they are reading this web site then it's strange they have not contacted you and or your dealer to ascertain what they did differently.

As I said above I doubt they have done anything differently. I think you have just been extremely lucky.

Reason I say this is why would Honda write to me and anyone else and say in the response that you will hear some minimal post combustion noise if the issue is fully resolved. See my earlier feedback where I attached my response from Mr Ken Sheppherd.

Just curious and confused to be honest. Overall extremely dissapointed as this could have been a great car but Honda just don't get it. They also don't give a dam about their customers. Especially their valued clients. No such thing with this Micky Mouse company.

Amateurs!

Would be interested in your feedback buddah.


Buddah-

1- If the pinging problem has been rectified then why does my friends 3 month old CU2 ping like crazy ?? Oh, if there is a problem each individual owner has to go through the anguish, inconvenience and hassle of getting HA or their dealer to move on this. The proof is in the driving and Honda are still selling vehicles with the problem.
2- Blind Freddy can see how Honda screwed up the engine. The CL9 had NO PINGING PROBLEM, the CU2 does, if that's not srewing something up then I don't know what is . Also, this forum with a massive 86 pages ( so far) of debate on the subject proves that their is a huge problem with many disgruntled owners.
3- as stated earlier and I'll repeat, the CU2 feels gutless when directly compared to a CL9, this should not be the case. Is Honda going down the same path as the original 240Z which was light and nimble and then with each successive model (260Z/280Z)grew fat and lazy ?
4-I agree CU2 is much better than the CL9 in many areas, the sharpness of steering , poise and lack of float really impressed me, as well as the faultless build quality. It's just the rotten pinging which leaves me shaking my head.
5- Thank goodness for choice, you stick with the CU2 but I know I'd buy a CL9 over one any day.

I admit there "WAS" a pinging problem but that is now a dead issue once the update is applied correctly.

There may be 86 pages on this thread, BUT HOW MANY RELATE DIRECTLY TO THE ISSUE. less than 1/2.

I do not find my CU2 gutless, you refer to the 240Z, well in fact i did own a 1974 240Z (along with the standard option of a whining differential which was never cured) & there is no doubt in my mind the CU2 is a quicker, better handling & more economical car. If my memory serves me correctly, the 240Z given a long straight road would top out at about 225kph. The CU2 Auto beats that by some margin & is still reasonably stable.

You go ahead & stick with your CL9, I will stick with my CU2 which is a major improvement over the previous model.

Each to their own & by the way, can you name a perfect car. how about a Ferrari F430, who wouldn't love to own 1 regardless of the known problem of fire in the engine compartment.[/QUOTE]

[denot]

Btw, since mine wa fix mid oct last year, 2 of other friends with cu2 ha got theirs fixed as well and so far no pinging. We all done this @ scotts honda artarmon nsw.

[buddah51au]

[QUOTE=Bilt;2605070]Buddah, you keep referring to this being a dead issued and the matter being resolved. Given my car still pings I don't feel so. It's probably similar to Irvings as I can only hear minimal pinging sometimes (not always) and only when the windows are shut. My wife can not hear it from her side of the car.

My question to you is are you able to elaborate how the fix should be applied, ie correctly. What order ? Do we now need to tell Honda how to apply a fix ?

In any case, I'm curious as I'm more than happy to advise them on how to apply the fix if you know given they can't apply it themselves.

What Honda Dealer do you go to ? I'm happy to contact them or have my Honda Dealer call them direct to explain this to them.

Too be honest, I doubt there's a difference.

In any case, I'm curious. Just seems strange to me that Honda is not seeking feedback from it's customers rather than just sweep this whole issue under the carpet.

If they are reading this web site then it's strange they have not contacted you and or your dealer to ascertain what they did differently.

As I said above I doubt they have done anything differently. I think you have just been extremely lucky.

Reason I say this is why would Honda write to me and anyone else and say in the response that you will hear some minimal post combustion noise if the issue is fully resolved. See my earlier feedback where I attached my response from Mr Ken Sheppherd.

Just curious and confused to be honest. Overall extremely dissapointed as this could have been a great car but Honda just don't get it. They also don't give a dam about their customers. Especially their valued clients. No such thing with this Micky Mouse company.

Amateurs!

Would be interested in your feedback buddah.

I personally do not know what the sequence is, all I can report is that I was with the Technician during the complete update on my car. If memory serves me correctly he said the TSB from Honda Japan was very vague in it's explanation of the process. Apparently the first vehicle they applied the update to was in the workshop for over a week until he worked out the correct sequence. I do remember him saying 1 of the problems was that some ECU's would not recognise the update, which did cause a few problems until a way around that problem was found.

I was there last week getting parts for my 25K service & mentioned that there was some feedback on this website that the update was not completely successful on all vehicles. The comment given to me was they have carried out the update on over 50 vehicles, 1 of which still has a very minor problem, but apparently that customer only hears it infrequently & is not concerned, but they are going to do it again & see what develops. That particular vehicle was 1 of the ones that the ECU would not recognise the update.

I personally don't know this Ken Sheppherd, but my guess is he works for Honda Australia. As I have previously stated, HA have virtually no control over this or any other recurring problems with Honda's, they are strictly importers & distributors. Any problems need to be referred back to the Manufacturer, which by the way is the case with ALL imported vehicles.

The only downside to the update (if you can call it a downside) is that the RPM cut out has reduced from about 6900rpm to about 6500, but I personally rarely take it to the cut out, top speed is achieved at just over 5000.

Gladstone Motor World is my Dealer.

[buddah51au]

I know this is off topic, but I have been readin some articles on a Porsche forum & apparently it is not uncommon to have engine failures < 40,000miles (60,000km). I would suggest that is very rare withe Honda Engines.

Quote:-
The same thing happen to me. It is the IMS. Sorry, the engine is gone. My failed about 3 weeks ago. Still waiting on Porsche to say if they will fix it or not. Did you buy the car new or is it a CPO car? My is a 05 with only 12K miles, but I did not but it as a CPO. If Porsche decided not to fix it which they should, you are looking at a $20k bill? I should find out before the end of the year if they will fix my car or not. If not I was thinking of getting a lawyer. Are you in the NY area? Where is the car now? Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[buddah51au]

This pinging issue on the remaining cars needs to be resolved and it's ridiculous for HA to say otherwise. The least HA must do is to re-do the SW upgrade on the remaining cars.
My dealer has offered to run a barrage of test on my CU2 and pass the data onto HA. However, I think the SW upgrade should be re-done first and then we can look at further diagnostics.

If this issue is approached in a methodical manner, I am certain that this issue can be resolved without further aggravation.

Irving, The software upgrade was done by Honda Japan, not HA. But Yes, if some cars still have a problem the update should be redone.

[SPQR]

I personally don't know this Ken Sheppherd, but my guess is he works for Honda Australia. As I have previously stated, HA have virtually no control over this or any other recurring problems with Honda's, they are strictly importers & distributors. Any problems need to be referred back to the Manufacturer, which by the way is the case with ALL imported vehicles.

From Section 74A of the Trade Practices Act:

(3) If:

(a) a corporation holds itself out to the public as the manufacturer of goods;

(b) a corporation causes or permits the name of the corporation, a name by which the corporation carries on business or a brand or mark of the corporation to be applied to goods supplied by the corporation; or

(c) a corporation causes or permits another person, in connexion with the supply or possible supply of goods by that other person, or in connexion with the promotion by that other person by any means of the supply or use of goods, to hold out the corporation to the public as the manufacturer of the goods;

the corporation shall be deemed, for the purposes of this Division, to have manufactured the goods.

(4) If:

(a) goods are imported into Australia by a corporation that was not the manufacturer of the goods; and

(b) at the time of the importation the manufacturer of the goods does not have a place of business in Australia;

the corporation shall be deemed, for the purposes of this Division, to have manufactured the goods.

[buddah51au]

From Section 74A of the Trade Practices Act:

(3) If:

(a) a corporation holds itself out to the public as the manufacturer of goods;

(b) a corporation causes or permits the name of the corporation, a name by which the corporation carries on business or a brand or mark of the corporation to be applied to goods supplied by the corporation; or

(c) a corporation causes or permits another person, in connexion with the supply or possible supply of goods by that other person, or in connexion with the promotion by that other person by any means of the supply or use of goods, to hold out the corporation to the public as the manufacturer of the goods;

the corporation shall be deemed, for the purposes of this Division, to have manufactured the goods.

(4) If:

(a) goods are imported into Australia by a corporation that was not the manufacturer of the goods; and

(b) at the time of the importation the manufacturer of the goods does not have a place of business in Australia;

the corporation shall be deemed, for the purposes of this Division, to have manufactured the goods.

Regardless of that mumbo jumbo, all technical problems need to be referred back to the manufacturer. Be it a Mercedes, Audi, Mazda, Honda, Ferrari or any other imported car.

If you look back in this thread you will see that someone posted that Honda Japan brought back 2 CU2's with the problem & shipped them back to Japan for diagnosis & to develop a rectification.

I recall we have been down this path before, theory has never solved anything, nor is something that is written in a book or an article. Quoting articles solves even less.

[SPQR]

Regardless of that mumbo jumbo, all technical problems need to be referred back to the manufacturer. Be it a Mercedes, Audi, Mazda, Honda, Ferrari or any other imported car.

If you look back in this thread you will see that someone posted that Honda Japan brought back 2 CU2's with the problem & shipped them back to Japan for diagnosis & to develop a rectification.

I recall we have been down this path before, theory has never solved anything, nor is something that is written in a book or an article. Quoting articles solves even less.

I will not try to go down the previous path of our common experience and I am not directing the information specifically at you despite quoting you: I wish to inform members of their rights and of the obligations of anyone who sells anything to consumers.

However, back to my point, I was quoting the law of the land not an article. The point of the law is that all that mumbo jumbo that HA puts on people is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned. It is HA's responsibility to fix the problem and not customers to fret over. Frankly, I couldn't care less for the trials and tribulations of HA or HJ. It's the trials and tribulations of their customers that count as far as the law of the land is concerned.

You have had a good experience which I wish upon all others too; but some others have not and have been rather exasperated and frustrated by the HA response. They have a right to be heard and accommodated.

[UNLS1]

sold one to my best mate, it pinged, got it fixed as soon as it was available.

[tony1234]

From what i understand the cars that have had the fix applied and it has only partially fixed the pinging it seems to me that the problem is that the software upgrade hasn't been applied correctly and or in the right sequence.I suggest to these people that they go back to the dealer and get the software upgrade redone

[buddah51au]

I understand this is off subject, but lots of us here have complained about CU2's with a pinging problem, obviously some have been effected more than others& some have had more successful results with the update.

But lets compare this known problem on a sub 40K car (Base price) with a dream car costing over 500,000K that also has a known problem. Also consider this car sells in very small numbers worldwide. It Just shows any car can have a fault, regardless of price.

Sorry about the language, but realistically I would prefer the pinging issue any day, but on the other hand I would love 1 of these exotics. It is a must see, just turn the volume off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCGig_0nL2U

[buddah51au]

From what i understand the cars that have had the fix applied and it has only partially fixed the pinging it seems to me that the problem is that the software upgrade hasn't been applied correctly and or in the right sequence.I suggest to these people that they go back to the dealer and get the software upgrade redone

My thoughts exactly Tony.

[tony1234]

My thoughts exactly Tony.
I know this is not always the case but the fix should work on ALL cars.Why would it not work on some?The ECUs are all the same?It has to be in the application of the fix and from what i hear about some dealer service depts.i'm not surprised that some people still have the pinging after the fix.there are some service depts.out there that are downright incompetent:zip:

[buddah51au]

I know this is not always the case but the fix should work on ALL cars.Why would it not work on some?The ECUs are all the same?It has to be in the application of the fix and from what i hear about some dealer service depts.i'm not surprised that some people still have the pinging after the fix.there are some service depts.out there that are downright incompetent:zip:

That's 1 reason I do my own servicing Tony, I wouldn't trust some of the so called mechanics at any dealership to work on my car. of course the other reason is the outrageous labour rates charged.

[SPQR]

I understand this is off subject, but lots of us here have complained about CU2's with a pinging problem, obviously some have been effected more than others& some have had more successful results with the update.

But lets compare this known problem on a sub 40K car (Base price) with a dream car costing over 500,000K that also has a known problem. Also consider this car sells in very small numbers worldwide. It Just shows any car can have a fault, regardless of price.

Sorry about the language, but realistically I would prefer the pinging issue any day, but on the other hand I would love 1 of these exotics. It is a must see, just turn the volume off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCGig_0nL2U

Lol. Damn! Ferrari still haven't fixed the problem where, at speed, pressure builds in the crankcase to the point of popping the dipstick and then spewing hot oil all over the exhaust manifold. I have personal experience of this (twice!).

[MKI4EVA]

boys I just got this email - what luck!!

William,



Great news! After speaking just now with Honda Australia, I can happily confirm that all Honda Accord Euros (Auto and manual) with the last 6 digits of their VIN/Chassis numbers falling after 202164, have had the relevant reprogramming already done at the factory in Japan at the time of construction.



FYI – I also now have the vehicle identifiers for your car, they are as follows –



Build and compliance will of course be 09 and 09, but car is 2010 series. In case you were unaware, this means that it has a black parcel shelf behind the rear seats, not grey like the 2009 series, and also you will be able to lower ALL the windows AND open the sunroof using the remote, and also close them up again in the same way. This was not an available feature on the 2009 series.



VIN/Chassis Number is – JHMCUxxxxxC203442

Engine Number – K24Z3-xxx3014



We will not know the exact months for the build and compliance plates until the car is on site. I will advise you again when I have them.



I hope this has been helpful for you.



Kind regards





Sales Consultant

[buddah51au]

Great info for Future CU2 buyers MK14.

I still suspect that those with earlier CU2's with the problem persisting is due to incorrect application of the software update. I have tried everything in mine from light to wide open throttle (ssshhhhh) under varying load conditions & can't reproduce it.

[CU2 Euro 09]

bit of a bummer that the 08/09 models don't have the window up/down feature via the remote key :(

[buddah51au]

bit of a bummer that the 08/09 models don't have the window up/down feature via the remote key :(

Unless that helps those with the pinging issue I can't see the relevance.

[CU2 Euro 09]

Unless that helps those with the pinging issue I can't see the relevance.

fair point,
I just commented as the previous post mentioned the window/key update

[SPQR]

bit of a bummer that the 08/09 models don't have the window up/down feature via the remote key :(


Unless that helps those with the pinging issue I can't see the relevance.


fair point,
I just commented as the previous post mentioned the window/key update

It's a means of identifying a 2010 model year car even if built in 2009. So it is useful information and relevant for those looking for a car with the fix applied at the factory. Good info.

[ozscott]

[QUOTE=MKI4EVA;2608970]...
FYI – I also now have the vehicle identifiers for your car, they are as follows –



Build and compliance will of course be 09 and 09, but car is 2010 series. In case you were unaware, this means that it has a black parcel shelf behind the rear seats, not grey like the 2009 series, and also you will be able to lower ALL the windows AND open the sunroof using the remote, and also close them up again in the same way. This was not an available feature on the 2009 series.



I havent checked my Vin but mine is an MY 2010 and it has the black parcel shelf and windows controlled by the remote control on the key...but it still needed to the new software and the new knock sensors.

Cheers

[MKI4EVA]

[QUOTE=MKI4EVA;2608970]...
FYI – I also now have the vehicle identifiers for your car, they are as follows –



Build and compliance will of course be 09 and 09, but car is 2010 series. In case you were unaware, this means that it has a black parcel shelf behind the rear seats, not grey like the 2009 series, and also you will be able to lower ALL the windows AND open the sunroof using the remote, and also close them up again in the same way. This was not an available feature on the 2009 series.



I havent checked my Vin but mine is an MY 2010 and it has the black parcel shelf and windows controlled by the remote control on the key...but it still needed to the new software and the new knock sensors.

Cheers


it would help us out alot of you make that VIN check for us all. it will be on your rego papers if you can't be bothered looking for it on the car.

cheers.

[nickxau]

dood, that email from your sales might be just a load of moo poo. Got my rego papers here right next to me. My VIN number is JHMCU2xxxxC21xxxx, which, if my basic maths is correct, falls after 202164.

Unless I'm missing something here, e.g. they decrement VIN numbers or I'm looking at the wrong part of the VIN no. then either the sales is full of $|-|!+ (which I hope is the case!) OR :honda:J doesn't have a correct inventory of their cars/which cars have the patch applied (scary!) :eek:

[MKI4EVA]

so I guess it's still a role of the dice then aye.........hehehhe.

I did have my doubts when he replied so quickly after I asked that day.

Anyhow I'm getting a manual so crossing my fingers.

[ozscott]

dont you love the way car salesman always reply with "great news...." - that really gives me the sh.ts.

Cheers

[Type R Positive]

Anyhow I'm getting a manual so crossing my fingers.Seems to be an auto thing anyway, so you should be right! :p

[MKI4EVA]

Seems to be an auto thing anyway, so you should be right! :p

we bought out one from Horsnby Honda and they seem good on the service side. even if we had that prob I'm comfortable with their service level to have the issue resolved.

the worst is when the try to talk there way out or don't acknowledge the issue.

[lingamair]

Mine is JHMCU26409C216659 and it does have that blasted ping.

[MKI4EVA]

auto or manual?

[praja6]

That means what Honda mention in that letter is not true is it?

[CU2 Euro 09]

There's been manual's and auto's in the forum with the pinging issue


its rarely happens on manual, but my friend manual lux got it. It fixed now though...

[Bilt]

That means what Honda mention in that letter is not true is it?

I will not believe a word these guys tell anyone until such time the pinging issue is fully resolved.

The sales guys will tell you everything you want to hear until you encounter a problem, then they want nothing to do with you.

My advice, stay well away and purchase something else which does not PING!

Oh by the way, was it not Honda Japan which developed the so call fix to the existing cars which have this problem ? Where was this developed ? Answer= Their factory. So how is a factory fix applied to this car going to change anything.

The issue here is a cylinder design one.

My advice go buy something else.

Unless you want to buy an accord euro that pings with only 12,000Km's on the clock which is approx $10-$12K cheaper than Honda are selling theirs brand new, I'll sell you mine.

It only pings intermittently and when the ambient gets over 27 degrees.

You got to love it.

I was also under the impression that these cars had no pinging problem. Well that's what Honda keep telling us all.

Go back to my earlier post and you'll see a response from Ken Shepherd of Honda where he advises that the fix has been applied and a knock sensor has been fitted to reduce the sound. Not elimate it!

THIS IS NOT A FIX!

So much for a warranty.

My advice, buy something else.

OH, and if we really want to achieve anything we need to get some names and numbers here and write to Honda Australia direct seeking full repair or reimbursement and or replacement. Don't know about you guys but I have worked too hard for my money to put of with this crap.

Both the Dep't of fair Trading and the ACCC have really done nothing for me except tell me how to complain. No point complianing if no one is listening.

Do you still want to buy a Honda ? They treat you like rubbish if you have an issue so why would you buy one.

[buddah51au]

Yes, I would buy another 1 tomorrow without any hesitation at all. There is not another car in the same price range that comes close to it.

[tony1234]

I will not believe a word these guys tell anyone until such time the pinging issue is fully resolved.

The sales guys will tell you everything you want to hear until you encounter a problem, then they want nothing to do with you.

My advice, stay well away and purchase something else which does not PING!

Oh by the way, was it not Honda Japan which developed the so call fix to the existing cars which have this problem ? Where was this developed ? Answer= Their factory. So how is a factory fix applied to this car going to change anything.

The issue here is a cylinder design one.

My advice go buy something else.

Unless you want to buy an accord euro that pings with only 12,000Km's on the clock which is approx $10-$12K cheaper than Honda are selling theirs brand new, I'll sell you mine.

It only pings intermittently and when the ambient gets over 27 degrees.

You got to love it.

I was also under the impression that these cars had no pinging problem. Well that's what Honda keep telling us all.

Go back to my earlier post and you'll see a response from Ken Shepherd of Honda where he advises that the fix has been applied and a knock sensor has been fitted to reduce the sound. Not elimate it!

THIS IS NOT A FIX!

So much for a warranty.

My advice, buy something else.

OH, and if we really want to achieve anything we need to get some names and numbers here and write to Honda Australia direct seeking full repair or reimbursement and or replacement. Don't know about you guys but I have worked too hard for my money to put of with this crap.

Both the Dep't of fair Trading and the ACCC have really done nothing for me except tell me how to complain. No point complianing if no one is listening.

Do you still want to buy a Honda ? They treat you like rubbish if you have an issue so why would you buy one.
Take it back to the service dept.and ask them to reapply the software upgrade.I'd say it hasn't been done properly/in the right sequence.See how that goes.No point going to fair trading or ACCC at this stage.

[Bilt]

Take it back to the service dept.and ask them to reapply the software upgrade.I'd say it hasn't been done properly/in the right sequence.See how that goes.No point going to fair trading or ACCC at this stage.

That's the problem. As far as Honda are concerned, I'm the only one complaining about this and they will not apply the fix again as it has been done twice already.

Just trying to get a response or any action from them is enough to send anyone crazy!

As for what other cars that are aviailable out there, there's a stack which don't ping! Yes they probably don't have all the mod con's as the Euro but they also don't ping.

[tony1234]

That's the problem. As far as Honda are concerned, I'm the only one complaining about this and they will not apply the fix again as it has been done twice already.

Just trying to get a response or any action from them is enough to send anyone crazy!

As for what other cars that are aviailable out there, there's a stack which don't ping! Yes they probably don't have all the mod con's as the Euro but they also don't ping.
Which dealer are you going to?You might need to go to another one.

[praja6]

How about guyes mention here in this forum which dealer in each state applied the pinging patch in correct sequence and the pinging issue is resolved completely. I think this would helpful for others to resolve the issue easily.

I am in Sydney going to buy this Euro definately before end of feb and this may be useful to me as well.

[Bilt]

Which dealer are you going to?You might need to go to another one.

It's not the dealer. I have been servicing my cars with them since 1993 and have had no issues until now. It's Honda Australia who are basically saying nothing else can be done.

I have written to them once again and I'm now waiting. Next step is to just drop the car off and not collect it until it's fully fixed.

Either way, I'll not be keeping this car for much too long!

[Bilt]

The pining issue is now being called “a characteristic of the car” and most owners are not likely to hear it according to Honda. That's what I was told this week after the dealer ran extensive tests on my Euro and rechecked the SW.

The pinging was reproduced by the dealership and a snapshot sent to HA and the response was the above. I was also told that there was nothing more that can be done as the fix has been attempted twice by Honda Japan.

This leads me to the conclusion that the problem is not SW related and more a mechanical/design problem (such as the combustion chamber). And as such, the SW/Knock Sensor solution is a workaround, which is the least expensive alternative.

Welcome to the Mad world of Honda.

As I have said on numerous occassion, this is a cylinder design issue which they can not fix without major expense. as a result, they have applied a patch job and hoped for the best. To bad the Dep't of fair Trading and the ACCC will not do anything about this as we have all been had here big time.

I bet that you weren't advised by the salesman of this characeristic at the time of sale.

Pathetice. Just makes you want to go out and buy another one (not). Perhaps if you do decide to buy another Honda you deduct $15K of the purchase price upfront for perhaps any pinging and or other issues which may arise down the track.

Told you before. They are the Power of Nightmares!

[Euro_CU2]

Booked my Euro in to have the pinging fixed next mid next week and i'll let you know how it went. If Pinging was fixed due to replacing the knock Sensors and two other parts as i am told by the Honda Service Dealer.

[ACE888]

sooooo after months and months of complaints (and then research by Honda) we have nothing but a software upgrade, that seems to be a hit or miss anyway? :thumbdwn: :honda:

[praja6]

Just wondering is that possibily a reason for the premium petrol. I believe different companies(Caltex, shell) premium is not same quality or performance like others..

My old corolla can run on any bad quality petrol even E10 i don't care. As for Honda they may be manufactured the engine to perform on very high quality premium petrol. I heard the 98 Premium petrol here in AUstralia is equal to the normal Unleaded petrol in Japan. Not sure its true or not.

Euro may be designed and run mainly in Japan not for Australian condition..

[CU2 Euro 09]

QLD isn't lookin good then. APPARENTLY 95 RON fuel is being fazed out of servo's due to state government regulations (by March, go find PULP 95 in most servo's now for a challenge). We are probably getting E10 95 RON. I don't think this will help with fuel consumption figures, so the money spent on fuel will only go up. By the litre and the overall amount you spend on fuel for the same km's.
My point is, if the Euro is sensitive to fuel quality how will this effect the pinging issue. And yes I know the fuel RON rating has been addressed but some did mention using a higher RON rating fuel seemed to help.
QLD Gov is really screwin us car lovers.
And how much does QLD pay for rego renewal? I just renewed for $655 a year. How much is VIC these days?
I wouldn't bother with Shell, it's crapolar! Defintiely noticed dirtier exhaust pipes and less power. Even my old Daewoo Nubira(which wasn't that sensitive to fuel) felt slugish on Shells 98 Ron fuel and didn't seem to run as well as it did on BP Ultimate.

Who nows what the TSX in the US runs on, as their 'Premium' (US) is only 91 RON, with some companies selling 93 and 94 RON stuff.

[SPQR]

....Who nows what the TSX in the US runs on, as their 'Premium' (US) is only 91 RON, with some companies selling 93 and 94 RON stuff.

They don't use R.O.N. in the USA; it's "P.O.N." for Pump Octane Number which can be up to 8-10 octane numbers lower than R.O.N. So USA not directly comparable to the rest of the world (as usual).

[buddah51au]

Welcome to the Mad world of Honda.

As I have said on numerous occassion, this is a cylinder design issue which they can not fix without major expense. as a result, they have applied a patch job and hoped for the best. To bad the Dep't of fair Trading and the ACCC will not do anything about this as we have all been had here big time.

I bet that you weren't advised by the salesman of this characeristic at the time of sale.

Pathetice. Just makes you want to go out and buy another one (not). Perhaps if you do decide to buy another Honda you deduct $15K of the purchase price upfront for perhaps any pinging and or other issues which may arise down the track.

Told you before. They are the Power of Nightmares!

If that statement was correct, every K24Z3 engine would have exactly the same problem which clearly is not the case. Personal, ill-informed comments like that achieve absolutely nothing.

[Bilt]

If that statement was correct, every K24Z3 engine would have exactly the same problem which clearly is not the case. Personal, ill-informed comments like that achieve absolutely nothing.

This information has been provided to me by Honda themselves. Hence why they can't do anything else. I'm merely passing on what I have been told given there are a number of us which have been afftected by this problem. IIf it's incorrect then I apologiose but can only pass on what I have been advised. I'm no mechanic that's for sure but do know a bit about cars. I have also been advised that everyone one of these vehicles does have this problem. Perhaps some not as bad as others and you may be one of the lucky ones.

Even Irving has been advised it's a characteristic of this model. If it wasn't why has Honda said it is.

[buddah51au]

This information has been provided to me by Honda themselves. Hence why they can't do anything else. I'm merely passing on what I have been told given there are a number of us which have been afftected by this problem. IIf it's incorrect then I apologiose but can only pass on what I have been advised. I'm no mechanic that's for sure but do know a bit about cars. I have also been advised that everyone one of these vehicles does have this problem. Perhaps some not as bad as others and you may be one of the lucky ones.

Even Irving has been advised it's a characteristic of this model. If it wasn't why has Honda said it is.

If every one of these cars is supposedly effected, that means myself, Denot & TypeR to name but a few don't know what we are talking about .... Interesting!

[Bilt]

If every one of these cars is supposedly effected, that means myself, Denot & TypeR to name but a few don't know what we are talking about .... Interesting!

Buddah, you are not reading my commentary. I am merely saying that's what I have been told by Honda. This is what I'm saying. I'm not saying that anyone else on this forum does not know what they are talking about.

In any case, given this is upsetting yourself I'll just let it rest as I'm not looking to upset anyone here.

My issue is with Honda and not anyone here.

[MKI4EVA]

fark picking up the manual blue lux midday today.............tick tick tick

[Zapped]

...HA have already pointed the finger at the fuel and now only specify 98RON.



Is that right??

Has HA officially changed the fuel specification for the CU2 or is it jut a rumor?

If HA have in fact changed the fuel specifications for the CU2 I would have expected them to communicate this to all the owner of the car.

Can anybody confirm that the fuel specification has now changed to 98RON only?

[buddah51au]

Buddah, you are not reading my commentary. I am merely saying that's what I have been told by Honda. This is what I'm saying. I'm not saying that anyone else on this forum does not know what they are talking about.

In any case, given this is upsetting yourself I'll just let it rest as I'm not looking to upset anyone here.

My issue is with Honda and not anyone here.

I am not upset in any way by your comments, I just don't believe they are factual.

Sure, there are a number of Euro's & Acura TSX's with this issue. I keep myself updated on both forums. I believe there are less cars effected with the problem compared to those that the update has not fixed. I personally believe it is incorrect to say it is a cylinder design problem because if this was in fact the case, 100% of K24Z3 engines would have exactly the same problem & this is clearly not the case.

I believe personally that those who still experience the problem use dealerships that do not apply the update in the correct sequence. If my Dealer is to be believed, (the last time I spoke to them) they had applied the update to 49 vehicles (They were updating every CU2 they had sold whether a complaint had been made or not). Of the 49 they had updated there was only 1 with an ongoing problem, be it very minor.

[MKI4EVA]

if and when we have a meet can someone kindly let me sit in their car that has the PING. very curious as to what this sounds like now that the thread has gone just shy of 100 pg's.

Car just picked up.........can't wait to run in the brake pads and clutch.

Then it's off to wiseman's ferry run sunday morning.

[buddah51au]

if and when we have a meet can someone kindly let me sit in their car that has the PING. very curious as to what this sounds like now that the thread has gone just shy of 100 pg's.

Car just picked up.........can't wait to run in the brake pads and clutch.

Then it's off to wiseman's ferry run sunday morning.

As your in the right area I would suggest a return trip up the Putty Rd to Bulga, have a rest stop there, the return. It's a much better Rd to run a car in & plenty of areas to explore the 4000 to 5000RPM area (once the engine is hot of course) where you will find The engine comes on strong.

[SPQR]

Is that right??

Has HA officially changed the fuel specification for the CU2 or is it jut a rumor?

If HA have in fact changed the fuel specifications for the CU2 I would have expected them to communicate this to all the owner of the car.

Can anybody confirm that the fuel specification has now changed to 98RON only?

As of 1 minute ago, the Honda website still specifies 95 R.O.N. Unleaded Petrol for the Euro.

No one should criticise the CU2 or HA and those that dare obviously don't have a clue and so shouldn't be posting in the "NEW 2009 Euro Luxury Auto Pinging" thread despite the title of the thread.

[MKI4EVA]

anyone noticed roughly how many k's they did before the brakes bedded in?

200km so far and brakes initial bite is not so firm n bitty.

[e2xodus]

hi guys.

I left my car with larke hoskin roseberry today for the pinging fix after complaining about the pinging sound at low rpm accelerations during my 12 month service last week. Wrote to HA no reply whatsoever though. Thankfully the guys at my dealership is quick to respond to my problem. According to the service guy here are the list of fixes,

1. manifold seals replaced
2. knock sensor upgrade
3. ecu software upgrade

I am glad to report that I do not hear any pinging sound after tested the car at low and high rpm conditions, so far so good anyway. The car feels a little more responsive too (butt dyno tested) The transmission seems to shift gears better now too.

cheers

[euromax]

Took my car in to Capital Honda Canberra for 40,000 kms service and they told me that they will do a warranty fix as per their bulletin for the so call pinging issue. Btw I have never heard the pinging before ever since I had the car new. The service guy there says they detect it though. Anyway the patch was done (supposedly some computer knock up sensors) and it felt no different than before patch.

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones without the pinging problem and nevertheless had the patch applied.

[buddah51au]

Hmmm....I guess you meant to say, [although the pinging was evident and detected by the Honda Dealer, you didn't hear it in 40,000kms of driving].

Look, I don't need to add any more of my thoughts to this issue. Suffice to say what I said before - according HA, "this is a characteristic of the car" and "most people wouldn't hear it".
I rest my case.

And I don't need to repeat my previous comments.

[buddah51au]

If the fix is as simple as redoing the SW upgrade in the specified manner, why doesn't HA do this and clear up this issue?

There are two of us on this forum who have had their cars looked at by HA service a second time and these mechanics are well aware of the issue and SW update procedure. I made sure of that the last time I had my car checked.
The problem was captured by the Service Dept and HA were sent a snapshot of the problem. HONDA AUSTRALIA STATED THAT THIS IS A CHARACTERISTIC OF THE CAR.
I can't put it any simpler than that!

It is no longer a characteristic of my vehicle, or many others that I know of. I have tried everything possible to re-produce the problem without success.

[Euro_CU2]

hi guys.

I left my car with larke hoskin roseberry today for the pinging fix after complaining about the pinging sound at low rpm accelerations during my 12 month service last week. Wrote to HA no reply whatsoever though. Thankfully the guys at my dealership is quick to respond to my problem. According to the service guy here are the list of fixes,

1. manifold seals replaced
2. knock sensor upgrade
3. ecu software upgrade

I am glad to report that I do not hear any pinging sound after tested the car at low and high rpm conditions, so far so good anyway. The car feels a little more responsive too (butt dyno tested) The transmission seems to shift gears better now too.

cheers

Larke Hoskins for my service and for them to fix my pinging as well. No issues with mine since at low, mid and high RPM.

I am happy the issue is finally gone. just a bit upset as the car had some slight scratches after getting the car back... *!&@#

[aaronng]

If the fix is as simple as redoing the SW upgrade in the specified manner, why doesn't HA do this and clear up this issue?

There are two of us on this forum who have had their cars looked at by HA service a second time and these mechanics are well aware of the issue and SW update procedure. I made sure of that the last time I had my car checked.
The problem was captured by the Service Dept and HA were sent a snapshot of the problem. HONDA AUSTRALIA STATED THAT THIS IS A CHARACTERISTIC OF THE CAR.
I can't put it any simpler than that!

Something must have changed between the time you complained and now, because in addition to a software update, there is a hardware update for the sensor too. If there has been a hardware update, that means someone at Honda Japan has taken this problem seriously and gone to find a fix for it. :)


hi guys.

I left my car with larke hoskin roseberry today for the pinging fix after complaining about the pinging sound at low rpm accelerations during my 12 month service last week. Wrote to HA no reply whatsoever though. Thankfully the guys at my dealership is quick to respond to my problem. According to the service guy here are the list of fixes,

1. manifold seals replaced
2. knock sensor upgrade
3. ecu software upgrade

[bk212]

It is no longer a characteristic of my vehicle, or many others that I know of. I have tried everything possible to re-produce the problem without success.

Hey Buddah, have read with interest all your comments on here which I have found most helpful. My car still pings after having the fix applied. I queried with the service manager and he said it was done by him and his head service technician, 100% according to instructions, all in the right order. They did this because this is my second CU2 and both had the problem, so they were keen to get the second one sorted out for me as I raised the issue straight after delivery.

They are now saying it is probably the heat, or the specific driving conditions, or the fuel...blah blah blah. Anyway I have given up trying to get anything done about it, but will be trading this car in earlier than I otherwise would have because it's just not fun to drive with the constant noise. All other aspects of the car I love, but unfortunately in my case the pinging is just such a big negative that it outweighs them.

Cheers.

[bk212]

^^^^ I should have added, the ping was not there straight after the fix, but has gradually re-presented over time. It's getting progressively worse, I am now at 11,000km.

[twing]

Like BK, I am now sick of this problem and consider my car to be a LEMON

Anyone want's to buy a Euro as I am thinking of trading this Lemon in for a VW or Audi.

Hi Irving,

It's a horrible feeling to have spent a big sum of $$$ but getting a dud one.

Just a piece of advice, you will be more dissappointed to get VW or Audi.
Their direct injection engine has been plagued by carbon build up. So far the info I got is from US forums.
Google 'direct injection carbon build up'.

[CU2 Euro 09]

This is how little HA knows about this problem!

It's not the heat or the driving conditions. It's more likely to be the fuel as the pinging increases as the fuel gets a little old (more than a week or two). This engine/car should be tested to perform well in Australian conditions.
Don't blame the heat or fuel or whatever. HA are you listening?

I don't think this is a feature or something that has affected everyone. I don't even think that it effected everyone from a particular build date. It certainly doesn't care about transmission.

The car is certainly not a lemon!!!

Are you kidding me????

It F%^k&*g sucks that your car is sh1T!

I am willing to sign my name to a petition for you to get a NEW replacement car and go on ACA!

From what I have read about your tribulations I care!

I do agree with Buddah, and yes my car hasn't had a problem that you have described. BUT, it's a HONDA and you should NOT have to PUT UP WITH THIS!

I'm more than happy to help you if I can.

[praja6]

Hi guys,

I just visited HOnda usa site, the normal accord starting price is 21000us$ but the acura starting price is 29310. there is a huge price gap between accord and acura, while here in AUstralia there is not that much price difference between accord and accord euro..

May be Honda needs to remanufacture the engine again.

[autoglymer]

Hi All,

May I know where can I get a pdf copy of the TSB that states the corrective action required to fix "Engine Pings During Moderate to Heavy Acceleration"; Acura has the TSB b09-041 to fix this issue?

Thanks in advance.

[lingamair]

Hi All,

May I know where can I get a pdf copy of the TSB that states the corrective action required to fix "Engine Pings During Moderate to Heavy Acceleration"; Acura has the TSB b09-041 to fix this issue?

Thanks in advance.

PM me your email addy and I'll fwd it to you.

[autoglymer]

PM me your email addy and I'll fwd it to you.

Do u mean that u have the TSB for Honda Accord Euro from Honda Australia? I have the TSB for Acura TSX already.

[lingamair]

Do u mean that u have the TSB for Honda Accord Euro from Honda Australia? I have the TSB for Acura TSX already.

Apologies, thought you were looking for the Acura one.

[Bilt]

Here is an extract from the Lemon Law Guide according to www.carlemon.com which applies to USA.

What is a Lemon?
A vehicle that continues to have a defect that substantially impairs its use, value, or safety. Generally, if the car has been repaired 4 or more times for the same Defect within the Warranty Period and the Defect has not been fixed, the car qualifies as a Lemon. All States differ so you should consult the Lemon Law Summary and the State Statutes for your particular State. Note that the warranty period may or may not coincide with the Manufacturer's Warranty.

Now, I would say that my Euro satisfies the first two items that is defined in the above clause. May I add that the Dealer says that there is nothing more he can do to fix the problem and that “it is a characteristic of the car”.



Agree, I'm also the proud owner of a wheels lemon as most of you are aware. HA have used every excuse under the sun imaginable to mankind regarding this issue, ie fuel, heat etc rather than coming up with a proper fix instead of a patch job which purely minimises the noise. This is a cheap fix because obviously the proper fix is far too costly.

I too will be getting rid of this lemon shortly as I can't live with a car that almost cost me $50K which pings. But hey according to HA I'm the only one complaining. Funny that they have had the same issue in other countries and there are several of us here. I must be imagining all of this.

They have been nothing short of pathetic to deal with from the outset and as I have said before, I'll never buy Honda again. Not after this experience. I just hope that the majority of you don't have to go thru this experience.

Oh and the Dep't of fair Trading as well as the ACCC have been useful as you know what on a bull.

Hope HA is reading this because I reckon they have caused themselves a fair bit of brand damage.

It's a Lemon and no one can convince me otherwise!

In the interim, you may want to open all the windows whilst driving and turn up the volume on your radio full blast so that you can't hear the pinging. Just a suggestion! Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

But hey what do I know, I'm imagining all of this.

[buddah51au]

It's too bloody hot to open windows in this area, A/C is always on & I rarely have the radio on

[CU2 Euro 09]

Wow, you are so negative!

I don't want to get on your hate list, but, the car is awesome! For me and most of the owners. All I can say after reading all the post's, and there are so many, is that you got a car that didn't live up to your expectations.

I still don't know what a 2008 model to 2009 model HONDA ACCORD EURO (capitals for search engines) sounds like.

They, HONDA, have sold thousands of these cars!

People only seem to come to these forums to complain or mod their cars. So if we count the complainers that would be a very small number of affected cars!

My logic is based on:

1. People that have not had a problem, probably don't complain
2. People that have had a problem, but don't know how to complain
3. People that have had a problem and have complained to their dealer
4. People that have a problem and know how to use the internet

So if I haven't covered anything logic wise please elucidate me.

The car, IMO, is great. You can't talk for everyone. You speak like the car is shit and dangerous. What a joke!

You're just having a whinge.

I await my reply.

[kimnkk]

Yup, i'm with CU2 Euro 09 and Buddah51. Haven't heard it since the fix and it was hardly noticeable before then anyway. Aside from that no problems with the car - build quality great, ride and comfort too.

Only thing i would want is more power but hey, how can i complain since its by far the best value car in and around its price range imo.

[buddah51au]

Wow, you are so negative!

I don't want to get on your hate list, but, the car is awesome! For me and most of the owners. All I can say after reading all the post's, and there are so many, is that you got a car that didn't live up to your expectations.

I still don't know what a 2008 model to 2009 model HONDA ACCORD EURO (capitals for search engines) sounds like.

They, HONDA, have sold thousands of these cars!

People only seem to come to these forums to complain or mod their cars. So if we count the complainers that would be a very small number of affected cars!

My logic is based on:

1. People that have not had a problem, probably don't complain
2. People that have had a problem, but don't know how to complain
3. People that have had a problem and have complained to their dealer
4. People that have a problem and know how to use the internet

So if I haven't covered anything logic wise please elucidate me.

The car, IMO, is great. You can't talk for everyone. You speak like the car is shit and dangerous. What a joke!

You're just having a whinge.

I await my reply.

I am with you 100% on those comments, Couldn't have said it better.

[MKI4EVA]

hmmm maybe it picked up more often on Auto's because the gearbox generally selects a higher gear when cruising........

this is getting insane.........I think I'd rather not try to find out if I had it or not.

[denot]

Well, If it isn't a case of "Bugger the rest of you, I'm allright thanks Jack Gee...."

FYI here is another complaint http://www.2carpros.com/forum/2009-acura-tsx-engine-knocking-pinging-vt250219.html

Posted at Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:16 am
By aubird93, New to the forum
Give Feedback | Votes: 0
Engine Mechanical problem
2009 Acura TSX 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 2526 miles

I bought a brand new 2009 TSX and noticed a very slight knocking in the engine between 2300-2500 rpm. Sounds like it is coming from the right side, deep in the engine. This started around 2300 miles (when I noticed it anyway.) It occurs when going up a hill or on a strait-a-way. Can't hear it unless radio, heat/air is off. Got on the computer and researched it to see if anybody else is having the problem; they are. Even in Austrailia and Europe, people are noticing this under the exact same conditions. Acura is saying it is "characteristic" of the engine and are "looking into it" with their engineers at the moment. I have always used premium 93 fuel, so gas is not the problem. Does this sound like something that will get worse? I am considering trading it immediately, but will hold on if I feel like it is something simple that can be adjusted via a recall.

Thanks for your input

That posted last year before the fix released. Do you have recent one after his got fixed?

NOTE: oh man, why do I want to get involved with this thread again? :(

[buddah51au]

Well, If it isn't a case of "Bugger the rest of you, I'm allright thanks Jack Gee...."

FYI here is another complaint http://www.2carpros.com/forum/2009-acura-tsx-engine-knocking-pinging-vt250219.html

Posted at Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:16 am
By aubird93, New to the forum
Give Feedback | Votes: 0
Engine Mechanical problem
2009 Acura TSX 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic 2526 miles

I bought a brand new 2009 TSX and noticed a very slight knocking in the engine between 2300-2500 rpm. Sounds like it is coming from the right side, deep in the engine. This started around 2300 miles (when I noticed it anyway.) It occurs when going up a hill or on a strait-a-way. Can't hear it unless radio, heat/air is off. Got on the computer and researched it to see if anybody else is having the problem; they are. Even in Austrailia and Europe, people are noticing this under the exact same conditions. Acura is saying it is "characteristic" of the engine and are "looking into it" with their engineers at the moment. I have always used premium 93 fuel, so gas is not the problem. Does this sound like something that will get worse? I am considering trading it immediately, but will hold on if I feel like it is something simple that can be adjusted via a recall.

Thanks for your input

It's all well & good to repost 1 response from the TSX forum that suits you, but overall there are more people on that forum that are happy with the results achieved post software/knock sensor update in comparison to those who share your views.

There is an old saying in the trade, people who tend to be the biggest complainants spend 20K to 60K on a car and expect Rolls Royce/Bently quality for their money. THAT WILL NEVER BE THE CASE. Besides,, those cars still have thier problems as well.

I know have almost 27000km on my CU2 Auto & couldn't be happier. Apart from the pinging problem - which was very minor & rectified at around 14,000km, I have had zero other problems & don't expect any.

[bk212]

Like I said before:
"Bugger the rest of you, I'm allright thanks Jack Gee...."

I agree with this 100%. I'm glad for those whose cars aren't affected, but a lot are. I agree that feature-wise nothing competes, but guess what? Pinging wise, the CU2 is in a class of its own too. If your car is fine, good for you, but don't tell me what a great car mine is when every time I get behind the wheel it sounds like a tin of marbles is rattling around under the hood.

[buddah51au]

I would like to ask one simple question from the owners who had the problem, winged and carried on until it got fixed and are now apathetic.

Will you put up with this ongoing pinging issue if you were still effected???? I think not. So, don't tell me to put up with it because "it's not a ROLLS ROYCE"!!!!

If I still had the pinging problem with my CU2 it would not alter my views as it was so minor & intermittent It was hardly worth mentioning.

[buddah51au]

QUOTE FROM IRVING:- I can't see what you are complaining about. It's just a bit of Glad Wrap come undone. Put a bit of sticky tape over it and youu won't even see it.

I guess you should get some super glue & apply it to some ear plugs before fitting them. You would not hear the problem then.

And by the way, I never winged and carried on at all when I had the problem, there ia no need to take that approach when you have a good relationship with your dealer as it alters their view towards you as an individual.

[twing]

btw Irving:
My mate has a 'lemon' motor bike. He then took the story to 'Current Affair' and managed to get the matter solved. He returned the bike and get 'partial refund'.

Just an idea to channel all the anger.

[buddah51au]

Well, let's NOT pretend that the problem does not exist.

Let's also try not to sweep it under the carpet by saying "it's not a Rolls Royce" & "I have seen cars with worse problems".

This is a major problem in my car and I am very concerned. It's MY Rolls Royce.

Do you get it?

Regardless of problems we have with our individual cars, forums such as this are not the place for personal attacks. I always try to post informed comments that I know to be correct. You on the other hand turn forums such as this into a circus.

[tony1234]

For those who still have the pinging after 1 or more fixes there's no point in giving the Honda service guys a hard time over it.Remember you are relying on these guys to help you.You need to be civil to them as their hands are tied.they can only do so much.Also remember if you are firm but reasonable they are more likely to go out of their way to help you.Put yourself in their shoes.If you had a guy come ranting and raving at you how would you treat him in return?

[buddah51au]

I will give advice when & where I feel appropriate & i don't appreciate your personal attacks. If you can't try to be subjective when posting, don't post.

You have shown your true colours with your recent posts on Vetureshield Clear bra which indicates to me the type of person you are, so please refrain from posting to me in future.

I just wish the moderators would do their job with clowns.

[praja6]

Hi Guys,

I would advise you all that dont argue here or personally attacking each others. Its understandable the brand new car bought with more than $35k from hard earning money giving trouble immediately would make the person upset.

I am not a mechanic, but how come for some people after the few times applied the pinging issue patch by the dealer the pinging noise totally disappear and for some it still there.
May be Honda Japan should consider this issue.

Again this forum is very helpful with getting all sort of ideas about individual experience with Euro.

Keep it up

Thanks

[buddah51au]

Hi Guys,

I would advise you all that dont argue here or personally attacking each others. Its understandable the brand new car bought with more than $35k from hard earning money giving trouble immediately would make the person upset.

I am not a mechanic, but how come for some people after the few times applied the pinging issue patch by the dealer the pinging noise totally disappear and for some it still there.
May be Honda Japan should consider this issue.

Again this forum is very helpful with getting all sort of ideas about individual experience with Euro.

Keep it up

Thanks



I totally agree with your comments. these forums should not be used for personal attacks. Each and every one of us would like more car for our money than we get, but unfortunately cars are built to a price mostly by robots & machines with very little human intervention along the way, which means there will be problems. Even exotic cars which have more human input during construction have problems, some serious, some not so.

It Matters little if we spend 13k on a Kia or $1M on a Rolls Royce, there will be issues with all cars of varying degrees.

Like Humans some live a long healthy life with no problems while others leave this world at a very young age for no apparent reason.

In this modern era we must be honest and admit to ourselves that a honda accord is an upmarket budget car, nothing more. Just look at How much extra car we get for our money these days, a base model CU2 can be had for around 37K, yet a new CD5 accord VTI in 1994 was a little over 42K. So in real terms the current Euro is a big step ahead for a lot less money in real terms.

If & when we have a problem with our cars we seek help from the Dealer where we brought the car, yet to a certain extent their hands are tied in regards to what they are allowed to do by the supplier of the cars, in our case Honda Australia. Yet in turn Honda Australia's hands are tied even tighter than a dealership as they are strictly importers & distributors of a product & therefore need approval from the Parent Company Being Honda Japan Before they can recommend or do anything.

A car is a car, a mechanical device, sometimes they can give problems.

We as consumers need to understand that there is no such thing as a perfect car, like anything else in this world, nothing is perfect.

[praja6]

Hi,

Just a questions, Does Honda Australia gave you the life time assurance for the engine for all you had affected with pinging issue

My friend had a Brand new Honda CRV and after having the car for 2months the oil started leaking from the engine. Honda dealer fixed that and again after 7months oil started leaking. Just couple of months ago Honda dealer replaced with a brand new engine imported from Japan or THailand. He is very happy with the car now..

Just curiously is there any chances might be Honda AUstralia may replace with the new engine for Euro if the pinging issue hasn't been resolved after the path applied more than twice..

[tony1234]

Hi,Just curiously is there any chances might be Honda AUstralia may replace with the new engine for Euro if the pinging issue hasn't been resolved after the path applied more than twice..
No chance at all.

[buddah51au]

I would agree with Tony on that 1, but in saying that i have no idea how bad the pinging issue is on those cars still effected. I can only state in my particular case, when i had the issue it was very minor & not repeatable under any driving conditions. Realistically, it was a very minor problem i could have easily lived with.

[tony1234]

I would agree with Tony on that 1, but in saying that i have no idea how bad the pinging issue is on those cars still effected. I can only state in my particular case, when i had the issue it was very minor & not repeatable under any driving conditions. Realistically, it was a very minor problem i could have easily lived with.
Wait for irving to reply.LOL

[buddah51au]

Wait for irving to reply.LOL

LMFAO ...... there will be something wrong with the glad wrap ..... or was that bubble wrap.

[tony1234]

I would agree with Tony on that 1, but in saying that i have no idea how bad the pinging issue is on those cars still effected. I can only state in my particular case, when i had the issue it was very minor & not repeatable under any driving conditions. Realistically, it was a very minor problem i could have easily lived with.

Let's analyse this comment:

I have no idea how bad the pinging issue is on those cars still effected. - Why do you keep stating that this is a non issue and is now closed and one shouldn't expect a Rolls Royce and learn to live with it? Ans - You don't know what you are talking about. You are simply trying to derail this discussion claiming to be some expert. Fact is you don't know what you are talking about.

aaronng edit: Removed personal attack
Irving.That's a bit harsh.Buddah is a licenced mechanic so i'd say he's worth listening to.

[buddah51au]

Now why did I know i would get such a ridiculous, laughable reply. After more years in the trade than I care to remember I am far more qualified than others to know what I am talking about. But like every human I don't know everything about everything & never pretend to, but when it comes to motor vehicles I have more knowledge than most.

Let the personal attacks continue, I find it hilarious.

[buddah51au]

WOW, 3 pages of personal attacks with nothing of significant interest regarding the issue, no wonder this thread is getting so long.

As for the idiot, only such an ill informed person would state that a clear car bra is nothing more than glad wrap ..... or was that bubble wrap. that says a lot about a particular persons knowledge.

[glengowan]

You're both "bloody idiots" for behaving like children.now grow up,shake hands, kiss each other and agree to disagree and let the matter end before one of you picks up their ball and goes home. That would be a shame cos you've been quite entertaining for the last few digs at each other, but now time to move on lol

[VIDSEURO]

G'day Guys

I wanted to highlight that my Cu2 did have all of the counter measures applied by Honda. The car still made some ping noise aftrwards and i complained again. Capital Honda in Phillip were very good, i was advised to fuel with 98 ron 3 times and allow the car's computer to relearn my driving style. I can truthfully report that i have not heard the ping noise since.

Most of guys will know that i was a frustrated and angry customer and my emotions were like a rollercoaster, as i was dissapointed with Hondas approach. They have come good for me personally but as for any cu2 driver who has this problem im at a loss what Honda can do for you.
I think if it becomes intolerable sell your car and rid yourself of the hassle
its not worth the nerve damage.
In march im driving to melbourne and will post some fuel consumption figures
for you all.

Best of luck to all and safe and happy driving.:thumbsup:

[buddah51au]

G'day Guys

I wanted to highlight that my Cu2 did have all of the counter measures applied by Honda. The car still made some ping noise aftrwards and i complained again. Capital Honda in Phillip were very good, i was advised to fuel with 98 ron 3 times and allow the car's computer to relearn my driving style. I can truthfully report that i have not heard the ping noise since.

Most of guys will know that i was a frustrated and angry customer and my emotions were like a rollercoaster, as i was dissapointed with Hondas approach. They have come good for me personally but as for any cu2 driver who has this problem im at a loss what Honda can do for you.
I think if it becomes intolerable sell your car and rid yourself of the hassle
its not worth the nerve damage.
In march im driving to melbourne and will post some fuel consumption figures
for you all.

Best of luck to all and safe and happy driving.:thumbsup:

Great that you finally got it sorted VIDS. Like many you endired some headaches along the way.

Something for you to aim for on your trip - I just done a round trip to Syd. (3075km return) average fuel consumption was 6.45 with a best of 6.03.

[Type R Positive]

Fkn hell Irving, mouthing off on forums makes you look like a dick.
I just hope you don't act like that in the dealers.....

[denot]

I always thought buying a new car is like finding girls to get married with. If you like a girl, you marry her and then find out that she's not as what you've expected. Would you complain to her parents saying what the hell have you done raising this girl, cause she's not what you think she is? or will you blame yourself for picking the wrong girl?

If we buy a car from the first place and doesn't do research on the issues for the car, then, I think, its partly our fault as well.

One thing I can suggest to people with CU2 pinging problem even after the fix was applied is to go to different dealer, complaint about your old dealer and ask them what can they do to help them.

Installing the fix might be a problem on several dealer as they wont have enough training on doing this, and they have to do it ASAP because customers are complaining.

[aaronng]

Cleaned up the attacks. Irving, do not be rude on this forum.

[Bi99les]

I had the post combustion problem and the the consequent fix at the last service.
However I'm now experiencing a decrease in engine performance, surging under acceleration and rough idling especially when cold or under load.
After a visit to the dealer and emails to Honda Australia I was told the car is working within specs, sure it is!

In frustration I had the guys at Revzone in Ringwood perform a dyno test and it doesn't look good.
The air to fuel ratio under load (over 3600rpm) is 8.02 which is not a good thing, normally its around 14 while cruising.
Also the Torque curve is all over the place which would explain the surging I'm experiencing.
I've sent the results to the Ringwood Honda and Ken Sheppard at Honda Australia, I guess the balls in their court.

[Euro707]

Good Luck with it Bi99les.

As posted previously my 09 Euro-Lux had pinging, had patch, pinging, had 10K service, pinging, had patch........STILL FCKUIN PINGING.

I have done the whole circuit now. HA, Dealer, Independent Tech Head, Fair Trading, Talk Back Radio, Wheels mag.

Basically, :honda: refuse that this is an issue or problem.

What with all the flack Toyota are copping, the last thing their Brand needs is a recall of the engine !

So the customer is taken for a chump. One Honda hack told me -quote..." you're been too finicky!"

TOO FINICKY......... after paying out 46K. How does that work?

Anyway.......I'm over it.

I have just listed it online for sale.

Me and my finicky attitude will just wander up to the Subaru dealership and drive the Liberty.

Something I should of done the first time.

Hasta La Vista Baby :thumbdwn:

[euro27]

Good Luck with it Bi99les.

As posted previously my 09 Euro-Lux had pinging, had patch, pinging, had 10K service, pinging, had patch........STILL FCKUIN PINGING.

I have done the whole circuit now. HA, Dealer, Independent Tech Head, Fair Trading, Talk Back Radio, Wheels mag.

Basically, :honda: refuse that this is an issue or problem.

What with all the flack Toyota are copping, the last thing their Brand needs is a recall of the engine !

So the customer is taken for a chump. One Honda hack told me -quote..." you're been too finicky!"I

TOO FINICKY......... after paying out 46K. How does that work?

Anyway.......I'm over it.

I have just listed it online for sale.

Me and my finicky attitude will just wander up to the Subaru dealership and drive the Liberty.

Something I should of done the first time.

Hasta La Vista Baby :thumbdwn:

I've said it all along Euro707, Honda have screwed the engine in the CU2 and the customer is paying.
There are those on this forum that vehemently support it but TOO MANY people feel ripped off and have had such a bad ownership experience that they ,like you have been driven to despair and forced to sell. What went wrong Honda ? Why treat your customers like mugs ?
Pity as the CL9 engine was/is soo soo sweet.
PS. The only CU2 I've driven, a friend's std auto pinged like crazy and felt gutless.

[yfin]

A car is a car, a mechanical device, sometimes they can give problems.

We as consumers need to understand that there is no such thing as a perfect car, like anything else in this world, nothing is perfect.

This is true - but surely you expect car manufacturers to genuinely fix these sorts of problems when they arise? In this case Honda has not totally solved the issue for all cars.

The patch worked for your car - but you seem to expect everyone else still with the issue to live it?

[tony1234]

It's odd that the fix/patch has worked on most cars and not fully on others.:confused:

[buddah51au]

It's odd that the fix/patch has worked on most cars and not fully on others.:confused:


I also find it very strange Tony, the only conclusion I can come up with is that the update is not applied in the correct sequence.

Let's face the fact that some mechanics know what they are doing & take pride in their work while others don't know or care about what they do as long as they collect their pay cheque every week.

How many tradesman these days treat every car as though it was their own - very few I'm afraid.

[Irving]

It is with the utmost reluctance that I have decided to contribute again to this forum since I posted here several months ago. I hope that people with legitimate complaints will be given the chance to share their knowledge and opinions without the barrage of criticism from the [content moderated] in this forum.

With this in mind, I hope to stick to the facts and only the facts. If anyone wants to dispute these facts, they are welcome to present contradicting facts. Not the same old rhetoric of this is not a Rolls Royce etc.

• Lets start with the fact that since the PCD fix, some cars are fixed whist some others continue to experience the problem.
• Honda Australia and the dealership that I used throughout this process have done everything to ignore this issue. Following several letters to Honda Australia, I finally received a reply (after threatening to go to Fair Trading), explaining that the car is working within specification.
• The car has been back to the dealership three times and three letters of complaint have been written to Honda Australia. The problem remains unresolved. In the USA this car would qualify as a Lemon and under the Lemon law of the subsequent State, it would be mandatory for the manufacturer to rectify the issue.
• Responses that I received from the dealership and from Honda Australia amount to being fogged off. The Customer Relations department of Honda Australia are pathetic. They need to listen to their customer's and act as an intermediary to resolve disputes and problems arising between it's customers and it's dealerships. Instead, Honda Australia continue to rebuff it's customers. You only need to look at the number of people complaining about the way they have been treated. If anyone doubts this, I am happy to post a scanned copy of the letter from Honda Australia on this forum.
• The problem as described by Honda Australia and it's dealerships is "minor". However, if one listens to the mountain of complaints from Euro owners with this problem, then this problem is far from minor. It is a MAJOR problem. Many seem to have similar symptoms whist other report variations in performance etc.

My investigations have reveled that the problem is unlikely to be the engine, hardware or software component as all Euros are fitted the same. The only variable here is the installation of the software component applied during the PCD fix. My concerns about this has been ignored by Honda Australia who claim that "countermeasures" have been put in place to overcome this issue.
Well, My PCD fix and 5000km service took the dealership 2.5 hours.

With this in mind I set out to find a dealership who was willing and able to rectify this problem. This is important as many dealerships simply deny that the problem is significant enough to warrant further investigation. Having found one such dealership, I went to the dealership and spoke with the head mechanic. He kept shaking his head as I told him the saga and then told me that the ping fix takes them ONE WHOLE DAY to perform which includes the fix being applied, idle for 2 hours. let the engine cool down. Then warm up the engine and test the car for the pinging. They have not had one car come back with this problem.

Well my car is booked in next Tuesday. Let's pray that it will finally be fixed.

[denot]

Oddly enough, I went to NZ a few weeks back. rent a 2006 ford focus, and guess what? It pings like my Euro (before the fix). Strange huh?

Now I'm wondering if the "annoying noise" I heard on my Euro (before the fix) is this pinging problem or something else...

[Bi99les]

I've taken your lead Irving and booked my car into Doncaster Honda to be looked at, fingers crossed.

[Bilt]

It is with the utmost reluctance that I have decided to contribute again to this forum since I posted here several months ago. I hope that people with legitimate complaints will be given the chance to share their knowledge and opinions without the barrage of criticism from the [content moderated] in this forum.

With this in mind, I hope to stick to the facts and only the facts. If anyone wants to dispute these facts, they are welcome to present contradicting facts. Not the same old rhetoric of this is not a Rolls Royce etc.

• Lets start with the fact that since the PCD fix, some cars are fixed whist some others continue to experience the problem.
• Honda Australia and the dealership that I used throughout this process have done everything to ignore this issue. Following several letters to Honda Australia, I finally received a reply (after threatening to go to Fair Trading), explaining that the car is working within specification.
• The car has been back to the dealership three times and three letters of complaint have been written to Honda Australia. The problem remains unresolved. In the USA this car would qualify as a Lemon and under the Lemon law of the subsequent State, it would be mandatory for the manufacturer to rectify the issue.
• Responses that I received from the dealership and from Honda Australia amount to being fogged off. The Customer Relations department of Honda Australia are pathetic. They need to listen to their customer's and act as an intermediary to resolve disputes and problems arising between it's customers and it's dealerships. Instead, Honda Australia continue to rebuff it's customers. You only need to look at the number of people complaining about the way they have been treated. If anyone doubts this, I am happy to post a scanned copy of the letter from Honda Australia on this forum.
• The problem as described by Honda Australia and it's dealerships is "minor". However, if one listens to the mountain of complaints from Euro owners with this problem, then this problem is far from minor. It is a MAJOR problem. Many seem to have similar symptoms whist other report variations in performance etc.

My investigations have reveled that the problem is unlikely to be the engine, hardware or software component as all Euros are fitted the same. The only variable here is the installation of the software component applied during the PCD fix. My concerns about this has been ignored by Honda Australia who claim that "countermeasures" have been put in place to overcome this issue.
Well, My PCD fix and 5000km service took the dealership 2.5 hours.

With this in mind I set out to find a dealership who was willing and able to rectify this problem. This is important as many dealerships simply deny that the problem is significant enough to warrant further investigation. Having found one such dealership, I went to the dealership and spoke with the head mechanic. He kept shaking his head as I told him the saga and then told me that the ping fix takes them ONE WHOLE DAY to perform which includes the fix being applied, idle for 2 hours. let the engine cool down. Then warm up the engine and test the car for the pinging. They have not had one car come back with this problem.

Well my car is booked in next Tuesday. Let's pray that it will finally be fixed.


Irving, let me know how you go buddy. I have a meeting with Honda again next week but as per usual I'll be told that nothing else can be done just like the last 16 months. What a joke! And I agree despite others opionions on this thread, the car is a lemon until it's fully fixed.

I'll be interested to learn outcome with your vehicle and if succesful, the actual dealer involved.

Oh and guys can we stop with the personal attacks please. Don't call me negative when you dont even know me.

I spent far too much time and money on this car and issue to also cop peoples crap on this thread.

Keep us posted Irving and welcome back!

[Irving]

Bilt & Bi99les,

Further to my insistence that some cars have been fixed by Honda Australia by replacing the Engine Management Computer, below is an extract from Honda Australia's reply:

"Honda Australia confirms that when the countermessure for the PCS was first applied to a small number of vehicles we found that the program may not have downloaded correctly. To ensure its effectiveness, and in an attempt to minimise the inconvenience to our customers, a new control unit was programmed and sent to the relevant dealer who replaced the control unit and sensor."

Guys, you may be well advised to forward this information to the mechanic/technician carrying out your next fix.

[tony1234]

It is with the utmost reluctance that I have decided to contribute again to this forum since I posted here several months ago. I hope that people with legitimate complaints will be given the chance to share their knowledge and opinions without the barrage of criticism from the [content moderated] in this forum.

With this in mind, I hope to stick to the facts and only the facts. If anyone wants to dispute these facts, they are welcome to present contradicting facts. Not the same old rhetoric of this is not a Rolls Royce etc.

• Lets start with the fact that since the PCD fix, some cars are fixed whist some others continue to experience the problem.
• Honda Australia and the dealership that I used throughout this process have done everything to ignore this issue. Following several letters to Honda Australia, I finally received a reply (after threatening to go to Fair Trading), explaining that the car is working within specification.
• The car has been back to the dealership three times and three letters of complaint have been written to Honda Australia. The problem remains unresolved. In the USA this car would qualify as a Lemon and under the Lemon law of the subsequent State, it would be mandatory for the manufacturer to rectify the issue.
• Responses that I received from the dealership and from Honda Australia amount to being fogged off. The Customer Relations department of Honda Australia are pathetic. They need to listen to their customer's and act as an intermediary to resolve disputes and problems arising between it's customers and it's dealerships. Instead, Honda Australia continue to rebuff it's customers. You only need to look at the number of people complaining about the way they have been treated. If anyone doubts this, I am happy to post a scanned copy of the letter from Honda Australia on this forum.
• The problem as described by Honda Australia and it's dealerships is "minor". However, if one listens to the mountain of complaints from Euro owners with this problem, then this problem is far from minor. It is a MAJOR problem. Many seem to have similar symptoms whist other report variations in performance etc.

My investigations have reveled that the problem is unlikely to be the engine, hardware or software component as all Euros are fitted the same. The only variable here is the installation of the software component applied during the PCD fix. My concerns about this has been ignored by Honda Australia who claim that "countermeasures" have been put in place to overcome this issue.
Well, My PCD fix and 5000km service took the dealership 2.5 hours.

With this in mind I set out to find a dealership who was willing and able to rectify this problem. This is important as many dealerships simply deny that the problem is significant enough to warrant further investigation. Having found one such dealership, I went to the dealership and spoke with the head mechanic. He kept shaking his head as I told him the saga and then told me that the ping fix takes them ONE WHOLE DAY to perform which includes the fix being applied, idle for 2 hours. let the engine cool down. Then warm up the engine and test the car for the pinging. They have not had one car come back with this problem.

Well my car is booked in next Tuesday. Let's pray that it will finally be fixed.
Sounds promising Irving.

[CU2 Euro 09]

Irving, I think you're in Brisbane. I've sent you a PM. I honestly don't know what the ping sounds like. Respond to my PM and come and go for a drive in my standard auto 09. I'm interested on your take of my car and if the ping occurs and I just don't know how to identify it. Take me up on my offer and I'll try to help you work out your own car. I am not wanting you to make me feel better about my car as I know I don't ping. But, I want you to see for yourself what it should be like and if so come to my dealer to fix it.

[albii]

Irving, I think you're in Brisbane. I've sent you a PM. I honestly don't know what the ping sounds like. Respond to my PM and come and go for a drive in my standard auto 09. I'm interested on your take of my car and if the ping occurs and I just don't know how to identify it. Take me up on my offer and I'll try to help you work out your own car. I am not wanting you to make me feel better about my car as I know I don't ping. But, I want you to see for yourself what it should be like and if so come to my dealer to fix it.

i'll do this fo you as i am in brisbane.

[Bilt]

Bilt & Bi99les,

Further to my insistence that some cars have been fixed by Honda Australia by replacing the Engine Management Computer, below is an extract from Honda Australia's reply:

"Honda Australia confirms that when the countermessure for the PCS was first applied to a small number of vehicles we found that the program may not have downloaded correctly. To ensure its effectiveness, and in an attempt to minimise the inconvenience to our customers, a new control unit was programmed and sent to the relevant dealer who replaced the control unit and sensor."

Guys, you may be well advised to forward this information to the mechanic/technician carrying out your next fix.


Irving, Mine has been replaced and I still have a slight pinging problem. It actually gets a lot louder and more frequent when the weather is warmer, ie over 30 degrees and using the air con. Appaprently it was programmed in Japan and sent over here for installation. Well that's what they are telling me. It was great at firts and no pinging at all however, over time the pinging came back. However, in saying all of this it is no way as bad as it was when I first purchased the car. But at the end of the day it's still not 100%. But hey I guess I'm just another finicky person according to Honda. Hope all goes well with your car mate, I really do as it appears that the fix does work on some vehicles. Perhaps Buddah is right on the money with his commentary around some of the mechanics. Perhaps some of these so called Honda mechanics have just got no idea.

In any case, let us know how you go. In the interim, I'll keep going at Honda regarding this issue until they fix it or they break me. One or the other. ha ha. Either way will sell this car at the end of this year. Have had enough!

No point dealing with Honda Australia as they don't care so my advice to anyone with this problem is just try and work with the dealer if you can. Honda Australia are a disgrace. So much for their warranty.

I'd hate to think what would happen if there were bigger isues with these vehicles. These clowns just don't get it and a Honda warranty is a useless piece of paper.

Not sure about anyone else but I can guarantee all here that this will be my last Honda. I don't want to deal with these guys ever again. It's not the issue but more the treatment one has to endure from Honda over this problem. Not sure about anyone else but I have been treated like an absolute moron from day 1 over this issue. In any case, my advice to anyone looking to buy this car is to stay clear until Honda can guarantee this issue is 100% resolved. Like that's going to ever happen. Pathetic!!!!!

They no nothing about customer service and dealing with their clients.

Just plain down right rude! I hope they are reading this. Especially my mate Ken Shepherd in VIC. This clown should be sacked!!!!!

I wonder how many customers they have and will lose as a result of this whole mess. Do they really care ? Probably not.

Berst of luck to all.

[praja6]

Just curiously, does this pinging issues still in 2010 built Euro models as well. ANyone got the latest 2010 built experience this problem. What i asked Honda, they said the issue was found in few 08 built cars and totally fixed now.

Thanks, the reason iam asking is i am going to purchase the 2010 built euro soon..but if anyone with the 2010 built model still with pinging issue then i ahve to think again.

[VIDSEURO]

[QUOTE=buddah51au;2678029]I also find it very strange Tony, the only conclusion I can come up with is that the update is not applied in the correct sequence.
================================================== ========

Guys im very sad that some of you still :( have the irritating noise to contend with.

Also HA has not been fair dinkum and given a proper hearing ear to you.

I fully admit that i had the fecken noise and it just drov me nuts, as im a car enthusiast and these type of noises are not normal standard operational sounds from the engine bay.
Anyhow on 11 Sep 09 my invoice from Capital Honda apart from the oil change
and filter indicates the following:

CARRY OUT POST CUMBUSTION NOISE COUNTERMEASURES,SB033T09

Part
H/37820 RL6 Q01 CTRL. MODULE. ENGINE 1
H/17115 R40 A01 PKG A, INT MNFLD 4
H/30530 R40 A01 SENSOR COMP, KNO K 1

The comment that Buddah made is valid,:thumbsup: if the update is not
handled and applied in the right sequence it will or may nor work properly.

Also on 3 Jul 09 my first post combustion fix was applied
Part H/17115 r40 a01 pkg a, int mnfld
THis did not work as i was still experiencing the shyte noise:thumbdwn:
So i went back to dealership and spoke to the Manager and expressed my dissapointment and then in September they applied the second update
the service manager told me fuel with 98 ron for three times whick i did
and after that miracolously i was not hearing the rattle..

Once again i sympathise with you guys who paid big bucks and got the runaround as this is not the way to treat customers and it leaves you :confused: and wondering wtf is going on...

I hope that some of this iformation may be useful to you and sincerely hope
that you will have the update installed by competent and ethical techos.

I can vouch for the Capital Honda guys they didnt jerk me around
and if push comes to shove let them apply the fix.
If any of you want to PM me no problem, also i have previously spoken
to Buddah over the phone and he's genuine like myself.
Just keep in mind not every person will do the right thing by you.
Sorry dont wish to sound preachy, but all i can say is establish an open dialogue with your Dealer Manager and keep at them until you get satisfaction.

If you get to the end of the line and and nothing good comes out
of all your efforts, then sell it, your health and nerves are not worth the damage.

My euro has now 15,000 km's and im driving it to melbourne end of march
so hope to post some economy figures on the way back all up will have 5 persons in car and im interested how the CU2 handles it...

Best of Luck and stay strong and feel the force :D

[buddah51au]

There is a very good reason I refuse to take my car anywhere for servicing. I am afraid I know & trust only 1 person to do the job correctly & it is not some of the so called mechanics that work in dealerships or other workshops. Unfortunately, a lot of you guys are not in that position & have no choice.

[Irving]

Below is the list of parts as stated in the invoice dated 16/9/09

CARRIED OUT ENGINE COMBUSTION REPAIR

H*30530-RL5-A01 SENSOR COMP, KNOCK 1
H*17115-R40-A01 PKG A, INT MNFLD 4

My car is a 6MT

[albii]

Irving... I'm in brissy also.. I have had the fix also (6mt) and am now experiencing a hesitation at low revs.
Would be keen for a meet up to discuss issues and with any other brissy euro owners.
I believe the fix hampered performance in my car.

[Irving]

Irving... I'm in brissy also.. I have had the fix also (6mt) and am now experiencing a hesitation at low revs.
Would be keen for a meet up to discuss issues and with any other brissy euro owners.
I believe the fix hampered performance in my car.

Albii, I live in Sydney. I agree that there are many things that can be discussed which I personally would hesitate stating in public. There are many 'quirks' to this problem, enough perhaps to let HA off the hook at this point in time. Perhaps Honda's CEO should sit before Congress like Mr TOYODA.

[Irving]

A CRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

Looking back at this PCD problem, I have a record that I first reported this issue to the Honda dealership on 2 March 2009 during the 1 Month first service. The dealership (presumably after checking with Honda Australia) informed me that I was the first person to notice this problem and it was not an issue. I continued to complain to the dealership and in August 2009 the dealership contacted me and told me that a fix had been released (Ping Fix 1) but it didn't work very well and a second fix was on it's way.
Problem description: Mild pinging at Hwy speeds @2200rpm. Average fuel consumption during this period was 6.5Ltr/100km Hwy and 7.5 Ltr/100kms City.

The dealership then contacted me a couple of weeks later and told me that a second fix (Ping Fix 2) now worked and I was subsequently booked in for my 6 month service which would be carried out together with Ping Fix 2 which included the replacement of the Knock Sensor and SW download. This work took them all of 2hour and 30 minutes to complete. For this they charged me $294.30
Driving the car out of the dealership at the first hill, the car pinged it's head off and it took over two tanks of 98RON fuel to settle it down. You may recall that I was attempting to train the EMC as it was said that it required "learning". The problem still continues in a milder form.
Problem description: Mild pinging under load @3400rpm. Average fuel consumption during this period was 8.2 Ltr/100km Hwy and 9.5 Ltr/100kms City.

I called up the dealership and complained within the first 2 days of having Ping Fix 2 applied and was told to come back after 3 tanks of 98RON petrol.

The car was booked in on 13 January 2010 and I left specific instructions with the dealership that I wanted the EMC reprogrammed. I returned 4.5 hours later to find out that the problem was reproduced and a snapshot taken which was sent to Honda Australia. I was also told that Honda Australia had told them that this was not a problem and the dealership advised me that this was "a characteristic of the car". The EMC was NOT reprogrammed as instructed.
Reason: HDS kept looping back to start and would not permit reprogramming.

Subsequent letters to Honda Australia have resulted in them stating that this "vehicle is operating to specification".

Now if you look at the above chronology of events it is obvious that Honda Australia have first denied that there is a problem, subsequently issuing two fixes, then denying that the problem ever existed. HELLO, WAKE UP!!!! We don't all live in La La Land....

Look, this problem is NOT specific to Australia. It is reported in USA where the Euro is sold under the Acura TSX badge, South Africa, Singapore and UK (to my knowledge).

Reading though the posts on this forum, it is noted that not all cars were effected and subsequently, most cars were rectified after Ping Fix 2. However, there are still some cars that and not fixed and Honda must fix these cars. They can't be allowed to shrug the responsibility of warranty by denying that the problem does not exist. A problem they have acknowledged by issuing two fixes. They simply can't walk away from this problem after acknowledging that this is an issue.

Toyota are under the scrutiny of the NHTSA in USA with sticking accelerator pedals and alleged electronic malfunctions. Nissan also is recalling certain 2005 to 2009 Armadas and Titans and some 2006 and 2008 Frontier pickups and Xterra and Pathfinder SUVs due to faulty gas gauges. Source MSNBC

It's time Honda got it's act together and fixed this problem.

If your vehicle is still effected by this problem them write a letter of complaint detailing the problem and asking for a resolution. you can post it on the Honda Australia web Site.

http://contact.honda.com.au/

or By Mail
Honda Australia Pty Ltd
Locked Bag 95, Tullamarine VIC 3043

These complaints are catalogued and statistics collected. If you don't complain you won't get anything. It is that simple.

[nickxau]

buddah I'd be interested to see exactly what items have been replaced during your fix. Listing all items like vidseuro did would be most helpful.

[Bilt]

A CRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

Looking back at this PCD problem, I have a record that I first reported this issue to the Honda dealership on 2 March 2009 during the 1 Month first service. The dealership (presumably after checking with Honda Australia) informed me that I was the first person to notice this problem and it was not an issue. I continued to complain to the dealership and in August 2009 the dealership contacted me and told me that a fix had been released (Ping Fix 1) but it didn't work very well and a second fix was on it's way.
Problem description: Mild pinging at Hwy speeds @2200rpm. Average fuel consumption during this period was 6.5Ltr/100km Hwy and 7.5 Ltr/100kms City.

The dealership then contacted me a couple of weeks later and told me that a second fix (Ping Fix 2) now worked and I was subsequently booked in for my 6 month service which would be carried out together with Ping Fix 2 which included the replacement of the Knock Sensor and SW download. This work took them all of 2hour and 30 minutes to complete. For this they charged me $294.30
Driving the car out of the dealership at the first hill, the car pinged it's head off and it took over two tanks of 98RON fuel to settle it down. You may recall that I was attempting to train the EMC as it was said that it required "learning". The problem still continues in a milder form.
Problem description: Mild pinging under load @3400rpm. Average fuel consumption during this period was 8.2 Ltr/100km Hwy and 9.5 Ltr/100kms City.

I called up the dealership and complained within the first 2 days of having Ping Fix 2 applied and was told to come back after 3 tanks of 98RON petrol.

The car was booked in on 13 January 2010 and I left specific instructions with the dealership that I wanted the EMC reprogrammed. I returned 4.5 hours later to find out that the problem was reproduced and a snapshot taken which was sent to Honda Australia. I was also told that Honda Australia had told them that this was not a problem and the dealership advised me that this was "a characteristic of the car". The EMC was NOT reprogrammed as instructed.
Reason: HDS kept looping back to start and would not permit reprogramming.

Subsequent letters to Honda Australia have resulted in them stating that this "vehicle is operating to specification".

Now if you look at the above chronology of events it is obvious that Honda Australia have first denied that there is a problem, subsequently issuing two fixes, then denying that the problem ever existed. HELLO, WAKE UP!!!! We don't all live in La La Land....

Look, this problem is NOT specific to Australia. It is reported in USA where the Euro is sold under the Acura TSX badge, South Africa, Singapore and UK (to my knowledge).

Reading though the posts on this forum, it is noted that not all cars were effected and subsequently, most cars were rectified after Ping Fix 2. However, there are still some cars that and not fixed and Honda must fix these cars. They can't be allowed to shrug the responsibility of warranty by denying that the problem does not exist. A problem they have acknowledged by issuing two fixes. They simply can't walk away from this problem after acknowledging that this is an issue.

Toyota are under the scrutiny of the NHTSA in USA with sticking accelerator pedals and alleged electronic malfunctions. Nissan also is recalling certain 2005 to 2009 Armadas and Titans and some 2006 and 2008 Frontier pickups and Xterra and Pathfinder SUVs due to faulty gas gauges. Source MSNBC

It's time Honda got it's act together and fixed this problem.

If your vehicle is still effected by this problem them write a letter of complaint detailing the problem and asking for a resolution. you can post it on the Honda Australia web Site.

http://contact.honda.com.au/

or By Mail
Honda Australia Pty Ltd
Locked Bag 95, Tullamarine VIC 3043

These complaints are catalogued and statistics collected. If you don't complain you won't get anything. It is that simple.

Irving, I went to my dealership today and sadly they can do nothing else from me. They have advised of all the cars they have applied the fix to all still have a similar minor pinging issues as per my vehicle. 30 in total and only 3 complaints. Must be a lot of deaf people out there or people who have just got not idea. In any case, it looks like I have exhausted all avenues and time to move on.

I guess good lucky to you and I'll be interested to see outcome with you car but from what I can gather, there is no further fix that can be applied.

What an absolute disgrace Honda. You can forget about me buying another one.

What a joke!!!!

[denot]

...Must be a lot of deaf people out there or people who have just got not idea....

How many time we should states that NO PERSONAL ATTACK PLEASE!

I have my pinging problem fix and now I cant hear any ping at all, so that mean I'm either deaf or got no idea.

If I have my son's pram at the boot and everytime I ran into speedhump it making clank noise, should I go to dealer and complain that my car still ping? Because if I didn't do this, NEWCOMER like you will say that I'm deaf? Bloody heck!

Like you said
What a Joke!!!!

[Irving]

QUICK VERDICT: MY CAR IS FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will write a more detailed report once I have fully tested the car. I will be taking it up to the entrance tomorrow and will put it through it's paces........

[Bilt]

How many time we should states that NO PERSONAL ATTACK PLEASE!

I have my pinging problem fix and now I cant hear any ping at all, so that mean I'm either deaf or got no idea.

If I have my son's pram at the boot and everytime I ran into speedhump it making clank noise, should I go to dealer and complain that my car still ping? Because if I didn't do this, NEWCOMER like you will say that I'm deaf? Bloody heck!

Like you said

Denot, my apolgies. I was not referring to anyone on this forum when I wrote the earlier advice. In any case, I can see that I was clearly out of line and once again my apologies for that.

I was merely stating that the 30 cars which had the fix applied at the dealership I have been going to all apparently still have a similar pinging problem if I am to believe what the head mechanic is telling me but they have had only 3 complaints. Hence why I said there must be a lot of deaf people out there etc. I was not referring to anyone here as mentioned above.

Just frustrated that's all mate.

Once again, sorry to you and anyone I may have offended here. This was not my intention.

Irving, sounds promising. Keep us posted. By the way, what dealership did you go to ?

[CU2 Euro 09]

That is excellent news Irving!

[nickxau]

HALLELUJAH!!! Irving please do give us a detailed report after your road trip and include which dealer you went to and exactly what items they replaced TIA.

[tony1234]

HALLELUJAH!!! Irving please do give us a detailed report after your road trip and include which dealer you went to and exactly what items they replaced TIA.
As above.Please post detailed report and also which dealer did the fix.These are the sort of posts we need here.Positive ones.:)

[Irving]

Finally, my car is fixed! Thirteen long months of unhappy motoring later this problem is now fixed. And WOW, what a car? I drove 170kms today and smiled all the way.

Here is the problem as I see it:
Honda refers to this as PCS (Post combustion sound). The problem as described to me by the dealership mechanic was that the PCS would happen for an extended period in excess of 10 seconds. This was deemed dangerous and Honda issued a workaround/fix solution which incorporated the change in the Knock Sensor and Software for the Engine Management Computer (EMC) and the Automatic Transmission.

Following the Ping Fix, some vehicles continue to be effected by the PCS albeit with a reduced severity. My Euro (6MT with Shell VPower 98) would ping for a few seconds then the EMC compensates by adjusting the air/fuel mixture and/or timing. This happens in the 3400rpm to 4000rpm range under load. There is a clicking sound while this process takes place. You may hear several clicks or a series of clicks prior to the EMC compensation taking place. Honda claimed that this "vehicle is operating within specification".
Models with Automatic Transmission are less likely to exhibit this characteristic than it's manual counterpart. As I understand it, this is because when a load is detected, the electronics controlling the Automatic Transmission sends a signal to the EMC preparing it for a richer air/fuel mixture and/or timing adjustment. The EMC then has time to make the necessary adjustments before the driver hears the PCS.

In my CU2 revving the engine always gave me the sense of roughness, not smooth like a well oiled machine and certainly not like my beloved 200SX. Revving the K24Z past the 3000 rpm range was not a pleasant experience due to the roughness of the engine. And then the pinging PCS would become audible (under load) until the engine worked it's way over the 4000rpm range. This vehicle was claimed to operate within specification.
This may be due to the following reason. If your CU2 pinged for less than 10 seconds before the EMC made the necessary adjustment, it was deemed "operating within specification" and installation of a new EMC would not be approved by Honda Australia.

In order to reproduce the problem when required and on a consistent basis, Shell VPower 98 was put in tank. This brand of fuel consistently reproduced the PCS. I had previously tested Caltex Vortex 98 with similar results to Shell but perhaps less prone to pinging. BP Ultimate 98 performed the best with little/no pinging.

The pinging was easy to reproduce. I demonstrated the problem to the Dealership Technician and he said that although there was pinging, it was less than 10 seconds and that was within specification. He also told me that Honda would not approve a replacement EMC due to this reason. We talked about the problem for quite a while, he also told me that it was not possible to re-program the EMC again as the SW could not be loaded twice. We also couldn't go back to the previous SW and then reload the new SW. The options that were left were to check and troubleshoot the problem. It was agreed that the EMC would be reset at the very least.

When I tested the car with the Technician (at pickup), the problem could no longer be reproduced on the same streets. So what was done (in addition to the 12 month service?) EMC reset and CKP reset (this is the Knock Sensor mapping) which MUST be reset after a new knock sensor is installed.
I took the car up to the Entrance and back today. The first three hills on the F3 produced a maximum of 10 clicks. That was it. No more clicking or pinging or roughness.
THE PINGING IN MY EURO IS NOW FIXED.

I would like to thank Ranit for taking on this problem and Harry who worked on my car from 8:30am to 4:30pm. Thankyou.

I now use and recommend Larke Hoskins Honda Homebush
Corner Bridge and
Parramatta Road
Homebush

[buddah51au]

As I have been saying all along, the upgrade for the post combustion noise needs to be implemented in a certain sequence to be successful by a technician who knows what he is doing. Unfortunately not all mechanics know their job & when they get it wrong we blame the manufacturer of the car. Always remember there are tradesman & there are so called tradesman, not every dealership is fortunate enough to have fully qualified, knowledgeable technicians who take pride in their work working for them which effects their reputation, (& our anguish if we have problems). Any company is only as good as the staff they have working for them. Now you can hopefully enjoy your car as much as I do.

[nickxau]

Irving and buddah, would you guys have the time to post the (itemised) parts used for the fix? I'm very interested to know...

[VIDSEURO]

Hi Irving

Im very happy that you were helped properly by the dealership.:thumbsup:
All the best for the future and enjoy your car.
You will find that as the car continues to be run in its performance
will get better.
My euro is now 16,000 kms and im extremely happy with performance, economy the lot:)

I Just love the sensation of revving the motor and hearing that vtec sing.

[buddah51au]

Irving and buddah, would you guys have the time to post the (itemised) parts used for the fix? I'm very interested to know...

can't help you there as i neither asked for or received an invoice.

[buddah51au]

Hi Irving
I Just love the sensation of revving the motor and hearing that vtec sing.

Between 5000 to 6500 is great, but obviously your restricted to highways to do this. (4800 is VMAX in an Auto in top gear) A little over 27,000km here.

[Irving]

For those who are still effected by this problem, I suggest that you have the following items checked by a good Honda Technician.

• Ensure that the SW has been properly loaded into the EMC and the Auto Transmission.
• Ensure that the Knock Sensor was properly replaced.
• Ensure that the EMC and CKP (Knock Sensor mapping) was reset.

The problem may show itself in many guises. The above work can be carried out at any service.

Good Luck Guys.
Irving

[Irving]

As I have been saying all along, the upgrade for the post combustion noise needs to be implemented in a certain sequence to be successful by a technician who knows what he is doing. Unfortunately not all mechanics know their job & when they get it wrong we blame the manufacturer of the car. Always remember there are tradesman & there are so called tradesman, not every dealership is fortunate enough to have fully qualified, knowledgeable technicians who take pride in their work working for them which effects their reputation, (& our anguish if we have problems). Any company is only as good as the staff they have working for them. Now you can hopefully enjoy your car as much as I do.

Buddah, I agree with the above comments. However, I beleive that Honda Australia has the responsibility of troubleshooting (atleast) one effected car at their HQ in Melbourne and passing on the finding to the dealerships.

[Irving]

I Just love the sensation of revving the motor and hearing that vtec sing.

Me too.... The first thing my Wife said after we had driven a few kms was "Gee the engine sounds so smooth now". And yes, this baby loves revving. Past 5000 and then 6000 yesterday and we were rocketting up those hills.

[Irving]

Irving and buddah, would you guys have the time to post the (itemised) parts used for the fix? I'm very interested to know...

nickax, I have already done this. Had it confirmed by the dealer on Tuesday and it's ok.

The extra part in VIDs car I think is a new EMC. If the SW is incorrectly loaded (as in Ping Fix 1), then the only way to fix it is to have the EMC replaced.

[buddah51au]

Buddah, I agree with the above comments. However, I beleive that Honda Australia has the responsibility of troubleshooting (atleast) one effected car at their HQ in Melbourne and passing on the finding to the dealerships.


I believe they actually went further than that by sending at least 1 car back to Japan for evaluation, from which the PCS update was developed. From there all they can do is advise their dealer network of the fix. Thats where the problem begins as many mechanics do not apply the update correctly, or don't know how to.

[Irving]

I believe they actually went further than that by sending at least 1 car back to Japan for evaluation, from which the PCS update was developed. From there all they can do is advise their dealer network of the fix. Thats where the problem begins as many mechanics do not apply the update correctly, or don't know how to.

The responsibility still lies with Honda Australia to ensure that it's dealers know how to correctly apply the fix. If the fix was been applied incorrectly, then HA should have got involved (again) to determine the breakdown. This is my point. The warranty is provided by the manufacturer who is ultimately responsible for it.

In my case my previous dealer washed his hands off the issue when it became apparent that he was unable to resolve it and referred me to HA.

[denot]

Hi Irving, it seems the one that troubles you alot is this point:
• Ensure that the EMC and CKP (Knock Sensor mapping) was reset.

Is there any way we can do this by ourself (just disconnect - reconnect cables or switch, etc)?

[Irving]

Hi Irving, it seems the one that troubles you alot is this point:
• Ensure that the EMC and CKP (Knock Sensor mapping) was reset.

Is there any way we can do this by ourself (just disconnect - reconnect cables or switch, etc)?

Denot, You are spot on mate.

We can reset the EMC but not the CKP. This thing shows up on the HDS as Crytondhdjfkl Knock Somethingorother and the name alone is enough to scare any tech.....They are not likely to touch it.

[denot]

Denot, You are spot on mate.

We can reset the EMC but not the CKP. This thing shows up on the HDS as Crytondhdjfkl Knock Somethingorother and the name alone is enough to scare any tech.....They are not likely to touch it.

LOL I thought it stands for Crankshaft Knock Position Sensor :p

anyway, so can we do this if we still hear ping on our car after the fix:
1. try to reset the EMC
2. if it still pings, bring it back to dealer and ask to reset the CKP

[Irving]

For those who are still effected by this problem, I suggest that you have the following items checked by a good Honda Technician.

• Ensure that the SW has been properly loaded into the EMC and the Auto Transmission.
• Ensure that the Knock Sensor was properly replaced.
• Ensure that the EMC and CKP (Knock Sensor mapping) was reset.

The problem may show itself in many guises. The above work can be carried out at any service.

Good Luck Guys.
Irving

The SW download is very important as HA have already stated that in some cases, SW was not properly downloaded. Then the resets must be performed.
So I still recommend the above.

[denot]

The SW download is very important as HA have already stated that in some cases, SW was not properly downloaded. Then the resets must be performed.
So I still recommend the above.

Cool! all in all, bring it to the dealer if you still find pinging :thumbsup:

[nickxau]

can't help you there as i neither asked for or received an invoice.

Fair enough. Thanks.

[nickxau]

nickax, I have already done this. Had it confirmed by the dealer on Tuesday and it's ok.

The extra part in VIDs car I think is a new EMC. If the SW is incorrectly loaded (as in Ping Fix 1), then the only way to fix it is to have the EMC replaced.

I see... I thought maybe your dealer left something out that's why you only had 2 items replaced and that's why you still had the pinging issue :p. Having said that, I also only had 2 items replaced for my fix and I'm still having minor pinging issues.

[buddah51au]

The responsibility still lies with Honda Australia to ensure that it's dealers know how to correctly apply the fix. If the fix was been applied incorrectly, then HA should have got involved (again) to determine the breakdown. This is my point. The warranty is provided by the manufacturer who is ultimately responsible for it.

In my case my previous dealer washed his hands off the issue when it became apparent that he was unable to resolve it and referred me to HA.

i will agree to disagree with you on that fact. Honda Australia is an importer only, from there they need to establish a dealer network. It is thereafter the responsibility of the dealers (this is the case with all imported cars) to sell, service, carry out technical updates as well as handle warranty issues.

Honda Australia will carry out training courses for mechanics, some lasting several days. (it is up to the dealership if they decide to send 1 or more mechanics). Experience tells me these training courses are quite involved, often hands on with lots of note taking. The problem is it is hard for many human brains to remember every point they go over & recall what they were taught some time later. This is what sorts out good mechanics from the crowd. Up to this point Honda Australia has fulfilled it's obligation of keeping their dealerships up to date.

In many dealerships, staff turnover can be quite dramatic as they tend to offer less renumeration than non dealership organisations, this being the case, it is often hard for a dealership to retain good, conscientious employees.

I remember my working days in the trade in Sydney where I was earning double outside of a dealership. I could go on about this indefinitely as I have a lifetime of experience in the Motor Trade.

The bottom line is although the buck stops with Honda Australia, It is the dealers responsibility to get things right.

[Irving]

Here is a copy of Service Bulletin 09-041 for the Acura TSX. There is no mention of any resets that must be performed.
Has anyone got a copy of the Euro TSB?

[Bi99les]

After my visit to Doncaster Honda to apply the software update again the car is running smoother but still runs rough when cold and has an occasional hicup under load but no pinging.
My concern is the dealer said there was no problem to begin with?

[VIDSEURO]

My concern is the dealer said there was no problem to begin with?[/QUOTE]
================================================== =====

The only problem you have is your avatar, butt ugly:zip:
;);)

Actually when i got up this morning the wife said my rear end was pinging
like mad :angel:

[Irving]

I want to get one thing straight. My complaint has been in regard to excessive engine knock (pinging) since the ping fix was implemented. I have referred to this as "engine pinged it's head off out of the dealership". Instinctive, I knew that the ping fix had been botched. My battle has been to try and get the dealer to rectify this issue. Eventually, the pinging settled down (mostly gone). However, there was a certain roughness in addition to the mild PCS which left me with the sense that all was not well. This problem has now been resolved.

Below is an extract from the Haltech Interceptor manual:
Knock Control
Many factory ECUs employ knock control to prevent engine damage due to pinging. Generally the factory ECU will monitor pinging using the knock sensor and retard ignition timing to get rid of it. The problem with this for the Haltech Interceptor is that in the quest for more power, a tuner may advance the ignition timing, but this may cause pinging. The factory ECU then
retards the timing to get rid of the pinging, and the result is that the power curve becomes inconsistent and makes no more power. Haltech recommends that before applying advance, the tuner should retard the ignition timing to see if power is lost. If power is lost, then the advance can be gradually added until max power is reached. It is recommended that the tuner run the minimum advance that achieves the performance requirements. Haltech has found on several cars that maximum power was achieved with ignition retarded from the factory ignition curves, as the factory ECU was tuned to run on the verge of knock control all the time. Therefore more power was made by pulling the ignition advance back to a level that would prevent knock control operation and still make good power.

Now, let's look at the last two sentences carefully, in respect to the K24Z engine:
If the factory ECU is tuned to run on the verge of knock control all the time, this is probably done as a compromise between obtaining maximum power and maximum fuel economy. If the Ignition timing is retarded further, the pinging may be eliminated at the expense of power loss.

Any comments? Please feel free to add to this analysis.

[VIDSEURO]

Any comments? Please feel free to add to this analysis.[/QUOTE]

Hi Irving

Mate my lux has had no issue after the 2nd fix, as a matter of fact
i percieve / understand the engine seems more willing to pull
quickly from low km's.
Im thoroughly enjoying giving the CU2 a good old squirt at the pedal.:thumbsup:

If you have any other issues ask your dealer to connect the car
to the computer and check all diagnostics to see if they are at their spec.

All the best mate :)

[denot]

One question that never seems to get the answer is...

Is the pinging still exist on My10?

[J-MAN]

I recently got an MY10 Standard manual and fortunately I don't hear any pinging. I've only done less than 2,000kms though so i'm still keeping an eye (ear?) out in case the issue shows up.

This is just one sample though, so I don't think it's enough to conclude. Hope others who got MY10 can also confirm.

[SPQR]

Just in case members here are not aware of their warranty rights, online retailer mwave.com.au was forced by the ACCC to send this email to all of it's customers. The principles and the law apply to all retail contracts, including the purchase of a car. A manufacturer's written warranty is the barest minimum. The law confers even more rights that go beyond a time and distance limited warranty. When Honda says that they will warrant the CU2 engine beyond the manufacturer's warranty period, they are not actually offering any more than that required by the law.

From mwave:

"Unit 5, 1-3 Nicholas Street
Lidcombe, NSW, 2141
Tel: 1300-727-446 Fax: 02-9649-6173 Email: warranty@mwave.com.au
19/03/2010

Subject: IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR WARRANTY RIGHTS AND OUR OFFER TO ASSESS YOUR WARRANTY CLAIM

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has raised concerns with us that previous warranty representations made by us on our website at www.mwave.com.au (Website) are likely to have contravened the Trade Practices Act 1974 (TPA).

The ACCC was concerned that MWave had previously told its customers that:

• They could not make warranty claims such as a refund or repair of the item.
This is incorrect. The TPA provides that a number of warranties and conditions are implied into every contract between a consumer and retailer. These warranties cannot be limited by a retailer. Any term of a contract that seeks to exclude or modify these statutory rights is invalid.

• They could only make warranty claims against the manufacturer and not it.
This is incorrect. Consumers are entitled to insist that the retailer provide them with a remedy, even if a problem is due to a manufacturers fault.

• They would always have to pay the shipping costs to return faulty goods to Mwave.
This is not true. Each sale is a contract between the consumer and the retailer. There may be cases where a consumer can recover shipping costs from the retailer if the retailer breaches the contract.

We have removed these representations from our website and have agreed to assess warranty claims from customers who purchased goods from us after 1 July 2007. For further information please see below - 'Your right to have your warranty claim assessed'.

The TPA implies statutory conditions into consumer contracts for goods and services. For example, goods must be of merchantable quality, be fit for their intended purpose and must match the description given to the consumer or the sample shown. Services must be carried out with due care and skill and materials supplied in connection with the service must be fit for the purpose for which they are supplied. For more information about your rights as a consumer, please visit the ACCC website at www.accc.gov.au.

Your right to have your warranty claim assessed

We have identified you as a customer who made a purchase through our Website after 1 July 2007.

If you had problems with the good you purchased for which you wished to make a warranty claim but believe that you were:
(a) misled about your warranty rights and as such you did not make a warranty claim; or
(b) denied a warranty claim by us,
we have undertaken to the ACCC that we will now assess/reassess your warranty claim.

To have your claim assessed or reassessed, please contact us providing the details of your claim either by email at warranty@mwave.com.au or by writing to us at:

Patrick Managreve
Esel Pty Ltd t/a Mwave
Unit 5
1-3 Nicholas Street
LIDCOMBE NSW 2141

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience our conduct may have caused.

We have taken steps to implement a Trade Practices Compliance program to minimize the risk of future non-compliance with the TPA.

Kind Regards,

Patrick Managreve."

[Zapped]

Oh No....after boasting with few people that I didn't have the Pinging problem, after 21,000Km on my Jan 09 Lux Navi, I am starting to hear the dreaded pinging noise that everybody is talking about. I hear it when I accelerate form still or when I accelerate uphill. It sounds like there is a thin sheet of metal vibrating for few seconds and then it goes when it shifts into the nexr gear.

IS THIS IT?

If it is, can someone recommend a Honda dealer in Melbourne (possibly northern suburbs) that actually knows how to apply the right sequence of actions to fix it?

[onnos]

I want to get one thing straight. My complaint has been in regard to excessive engine knock (pinging) since the ping fix was implemented. I have referred to this as "engine pinged it's head off out of the dealership". Instinctive, I knew that the ping fix had been botched. My battle has been to try and get the dealer to rectify this issue. Eventually, the pinging settled down (mostly gone). However, there was a certain roughness in addition to the mild PCS which left me with the sense that all was not well. This problem has now been resolved.

Below is an extract from the Haltech Interceptor manual:
Knock Control
Many factory ECUs employ knock control to prevent engine damage due to pinging. Generally the factory ECU will monitor pinging using the knock sensor and retard ignition timing to get rid of it. The problem with this for the Haltech Interceptor is that in the quest for more power, a tuner may advance the ignition timing, but this may cause pinging. The factory ECU then
retards the timing to get rid of the pinging, and the result is that the power curve becomes inconsistent and makes no more power. Haltech recommends that before applying advance, the tuner should retard the ignition timing to see if power is lost. If power is lost, then the advance can be gradually added until max power is reached. It is recommended that the tuner run the minimum advance that achieves the performance requirements. Haltech has found on several cars that maximum power was achieved with ignition retarded from the factory ignition curves, as the factory ECU was tuned to run on the verge of knock control all the time. Therefore more power was made by pulling the ignition advance back to a level that would prevent knock control operation and still make good power.

Now, let's look at the last two sentences carefully, in respect to the K24Z engine:
If the factory ECU is tuned to run on the verge of knock control all the time, this is probably done as a compromise between obtaining maximum power and maximum fuel economy. If the Ignition timing is retarded further, the pinging may be eliminated at the expense of power loss.

Any comments? Please feel free to add to this analysis.

what it sounds like haltech are refering to here is japanese imports with ecus factory tuned to run on the higher octane petrol available in japan.taking a japanese ecu run it on a lower octane fuel than it was setup to run on and cranking more timing is a recipe for detonation.australian/nz new cars usually come with the ecu setup for our lower octane fuel.a motor makes maximun power on the thresh hold of detonation. once u start detonating u are losing power and doing damage. if the reflash took timing out which stopped the detonation then it should run/ pull harder(unless they pulled a whole lot of timing out) i would put it on a dyno/wide band and check air fuel ratios before and after reflash, to see if they have just cranked more fuel in to help prevent detonation. which could see a loss in power as u made the air fuel ratios to rich for optimum power but to try and prevent detonation.

[Irving]

what it sounds like haltech are refering to here is japanese imports with ecus factory tuned to run on the higher octane petrol available in japan.taking a japanese ecu run it on a lower octane fuel than it was setup to run on and cranking more timing is a recipe for detonation.australian/nz new cars usually come with the ecu setup for our lower octane fuel.a motor makes maximun power on the thresh hold of detonation. once u start detonating u are losing power and doing damage. if the reflash took timing out which stopped the detonation then it should run/ pull harder(unless they pulled a whole lot of timing out) i would put it on a dyno/wide band and check air fuel ratios before and after reflash, to see if they have just cranked more fuel in to help prevent detonation. which could see a loss in power as u made the air fuel ratios to rich for optimum power but to try and prevent detonation.

Onnos, I agree and thanks for your comments on this issue.

The first point that I would like to reiterate is that my car did not ping badly BEFORE THE PING FIX (it was very mild pinging at Hwy speeds at 2200rpm). After the ping fix it pinged it’s head off as the upgrade was botched by the dealership. This has been my main complaint.

The second point is that the car now pulls harder and the vtec is more pronounced. For a 4cyl, 4dr sedan, this thing really moves. Very impressive. So it looks like they increased the retard threshold a little but not to the point of giving up power. However, there is still mild PCS (post combustion sound) in the 3400 to 4000 rpm range. This happens under moderate acceleration on mild inclines. Drive the same hill aggressively and there is no PCS. So what you say makes perfect sense as the ECU compensates for the perceived increased load by adjusting the mixture.
I believe that one needs excellent hearing to pick up the PCS from the engine. If the fan is set on 4 or more, or if the radio is on or the window is down, you will not hear it. You need to listen for it. Also, Automatics are now less susceptible to this PCS due to the Auto SW signaling the EMC when an increased load is detected.
I can’t say that this sound now qualifies as pinging and have to agree with Honda that it is PCS.

The third point is that some fuels perform better and are less prone to pinging. Has anyone tried 100 octane from United? I know it has 10% Ethanol which makes me reluctant to try it. It would be interesting to check if this has an impact on the PCS. The point being that high octane fuels are less prone to detonation under compression.

[nickxau]

Irving I'm not sure if I'm reading your post correctly but after your post earlier on saying the problem is solved, you're now saying that there still is a "rattling" noise coming from your car but you're not classifying it as "pinging" anymore but "post combustion sound"?

[Irving]

I don't believe that I used the word "rattling"....
Pinging can be pre or post combustion detonation. It also has a metallic sound similar to marbles rolling. What I have is somewhat different to this "pinging" and have to agree with Honda Australia that this is "mild PCS".

[nickxau]

Yeh, I didn't think you used that term either but due to the lack of a better word I used it with inverted commas :p.

The reason why I'm trying to clarify is coz I've still got a mild - "sound" shall we say? that I can hear from time to time. I was wondering if mine is a PCS or still a pinging sound. Coz from the sounds of buddah51au's outcome of his fix which was applied, it seems to me that he's got NO SOUND whatsoever, be it pinging, rattling, mild pinging or PCS etc coming from the engine.

buddah51au id you're still following this thread can you please confirm that this is the case?

[buddah51au]

Nickxau, I have had no pinging or PCS problems since the update was applied just over 10,000km ago. The car is running perfect although it has had very little use over the last 2 months as it is no longer a daily driver - 600km in last 2 months.

[Irving]

Irving, I went to my dealership today and sadly they can do nothing else from me. They have advised of all the cars they have applied the fix to all still have a similar minor pinging issues as per my vehicle. 30 in total and only 3 complaints.



This damn thing is a funny issue.... Type and even the batch of petrol??? Atmospheric conditions such as air pressure and humidity??? and air temperature can all be factors.

Also, Automatics should be less prone to this issue as adviced by my mechanic...

[nzitr]

I want to get one thing straight. My complaint has been in regard to excessive engine knock (pinging) since the ping fix was implemented. I have referred to this as "engine pinged it's head off out of the dealership". Instinctive, I knew that the ping fix had been botched. My battle has been to try and get the dealer to rectify this issue. Eventually, the pinging settled down (mostly gone). However, there was a certain roughness in addition to the mild PCS which left me with the sense that all was not well. This problem has now been resolved.

Can you elaborate re the roughness and the mild PCS please.. I'm wondering if my car was botched too!

[limleong]

Can you elaborate re the roughness and the mild PCS please.. I'm wondering if my car was botched too!

NZITR,

I have a NZ Spec CW2 (Tourer Version of CU2) and my wife can hear the pinging when going uphill. Did you have your ECU re-program and Knock Sensor replace by Honda NZ.

I am wondering what is Honda NZ official position on the "pinging" issue as it sounds like all 08, 09 and even some 10 models have the same issue. A majority probably didn't hear or can't re-cognise the "ping" noise.

Thanks.

[89superstage]

Hi Limleong,
I've posed the question to Honda NZ and am awaiting a call back now....

Nzitr, did you take this issue to Honda NZ already?

thanks,
Des

[nzitr]

Hi Limleong,
I've posed the question to Honda NZ and am awaiting a call back now....

Nzitr, did you take this issue to Honda NZ already?

thanks,
Des

My car had the fix done late last year after I complained to my sales person. It was done without any questions or tests at Newmarket Honda. It still isn't what I would call perfect so I am still contemplating my next move. Perhaps I am being too demanding!

[limleong]

My car had the fix done late last year after I complained to my sales person. It was done without any questions or tests at Newmarket Honda. It still isn't what I would call perfect so I am still contemplating my next move. Perhaps I am being too demanding!

Hi NZITR,

Do you know what exactly did Honda New Market did ie. did they simply re-flash the ECU or did they flash the ECU and replace the knock sensor as well?

I have read from various forums (OZHONDA and Acurazine) that simply flashing the ECU will not cure the problem. The cure has to be a ECU re-flash and replacement of knock sensor. This is the reason that I am holding off. A half cure might be worse than no cure :(

[nzitr]

Hi NZITR,

Do you know what exactly did Honda New Market did ie. did they simply re-flash the ECU or did they flash the ECU and replace the knock sensor as well?

I have read from various forums (OZHONDA and Acurazine) that simply flashing the ECU will not cure the problem. The cure has to be a ECU re-flash and replacement of knock sensor. This is the reason that I am holding off. A half cure might be worse than no cure :(

It apparently was a full fix including the knock sensor. The out and out pinging is gone but it is rough at 1500-1800 revs in D, like it is lugging the engine. To be honest I only started driving it in D this year so I don't know if it is a new issue or not. Honda tried to tell me it was the wear on my rear tyres.

[Irving]

How can some Euros which have the same engine, same Knock Sensor, same EMC and Software as all the others suffer from PCS, roughness, surging etc???? IT DOESn't MAKE SENSE!!!

All I can say is that in my Euro, the PCS problem comes and goes but it is there most of the time. So some other cars may be (mostly) fine.....

In any case this issue has NOT been completely resolved and HONDA should fix this problem.

Bear in mind that the Engine Management Computer is also responsible for Cruise Control and VSA in addition to it's engine management functions. Any malfunction in these areas may have adverse consequences to the occupants in the vehicle.

Honda needs to pay more attention to this issue before Class Action Law suites start piling up!

[Irving]

This problem with PCS or Pinging as some call it has been evident in my car since it was new. Honda released a fix which did not work so they released another fix which seems to have resolved the issue in some cars.

Now, my car is still faulty and Honda is still required by Law to fix it. However, they are shying away from this responsibility.

The remaining course of action is litigation and Class Action would be the appropriate avenue as there is little point in going on about this issue on this Forum as there is little that can be achieved here.

[newedition]

Hi All - Long story short...
Did not realise had ping problem until stereo turned off.
Reported during routine service with Honda after reading it could do damage
Advised parts unavailable although can do damage if not fixed
Advised will call me when they do get parts - never received a call.
4 months later was advised during routine service had fixed ping issue (excuse for taking so long to recover parts was that it was highly sought after, other service dept stocking them all, my response was WTF not good enough)
Was happy car had no ping issue but became extremely Pi$$ed minutes after discovering the car was SLOWER
It is not as noticeable if u have it on D and accelerate quick (i can feel the difference from driving it for over a year now)
Eg. Having it on semi automatic on 5th gear on fwy, drop it to 3rd to over take, car revs to 5000rpm hangs there for half a second then drops to 4800 rpm (although i am constantly pushing the peddle more) then climbs up to 6000 rpm like a SNAIL, wtf happened to the v-tec??!!!)
Drives like a piece of $hit now
Booked in to get it tested tomorrow at honda.

edit: reason for not dropping to 4th gear is coz that too climbs quite slow, i thought this was normal for semi auto, dropping down 2 gears is new to me after driving manual for years.

[Joystick]

It's been a while since I've posted here but I'm still having a pinging/PCS problem after the 'fix'

Going to raise the issue with Honda this month when I put the car in for a service.

Newedition - I have the very same problem with 3rd gear hitting 5k RPM then dropping to 4.7k RPM with the pedal flat. Very odd!

[Irving]

I have it on good authority that some MY10 owners are also reporting this issue.

Anyone thinking of trading up??????

[jimboturbo]

I have it on good authority that some MY10 owners are also reporting this issue.

Anyone thinking of trading up??????

I genuinely do feel sorry for you guys.. I had the fix applied last week (both ECU and Knock sensor) during my 20,000km service and it is running exceptionally smoothly with no pinging whatsoever. Although to be honest my car only ever noticably pinged before when I was running it on 95 octane, under light acceleration on a slight incline. When on 98 octane I never recall it pinging once. However for you guys it seems to be a constant issue, and if it was like that on mine, I think i'd be equally as angry.

[Irving]

I genuinely do feel sorry for you guys.. I had the fix applied last week (both ECU and Knock sensor) during my 20,000km service and it is running exceptionally smoothly with no pinging whatsoever. Although to be honest my car only ever noticably pinged before when I was running it on 95 octane, under light acceleration on a slight incline. When on 98 octane I never recall it pinging once. However for you guys it seems to be a constant issue, and if it was like that on mine, I think i'd be equally as angry.

"No two cars are alike". I have heard this from experts who reprogram ECUs....

It seems that with the Euro, the EMC is not able to retard the timing far enough (in some cars) in order to eliminate pinging when engine knock is detected. Increasing the fuel octane should minimise this problem. However, in some cars the SW fix is inadequate in this respect.
This problem, as I understand it could be related to pinging/PCS but may be different to the surging problem. However, still linked to SW problems.

Recently my EMC and CKP were reset and the car ran perfectly for the first 100kms.... Now the pinging/PCS is back.....

As I understand it, the SW is still the problem and needs to be resolved by Honda.

Allegedly, some MY10 customers are now telling their dealers that they can hear pinging.

Guys, I appreciate feedback on this issue. We are simply trying to get this problem resolved.

[limleong]

"
Allegedly, some MY10 customers are now telling their dealers that they can hear pinging.

Guys, I appreciate feedback on this issue. We are simply trying to get this problem resolved.

Irving,

The Technical Service Bulletin published by Acrura (in USA) specifically mentioned the MY10 VIN number range which has the PCS issue. Can't remember the URL but a google search should get you the Acura TSB. So the early batches of MY10 Euro appear to have the same issue. I don't think Honda AU/NZ publishes any VIN range as this is not a safety recall.

[Irving]

Thanks for pointing that out Limleong.

If the pinging/PCS issue has been rectified in later MY10 models, Honda are obviously well aware of the necessary fix (faulty component).
This been the case, it should be a matter of warranty to recall and fix the cars that are still plagued with this problem.

[newedition]

It's been a while since I've posted here but I'm still having a pinging/PCS problem after the 'fix'

Going to raise the issue with Honda this month when I put the car in for a service.

Newedition - I have the very same problem with 3rd gear hitting 5k RPM then dropping to 4.7k RPM with the pedal flat. Very odd!

I'd expect that when u put ur car in for a service at honda and pay $556 for it, that it should come back better than ever, instead our cars have come back with a new problem and i am 110% sure it was bcoz of the so called fix coz i kno my car and drive the same way EVERYDAY. Why f**king give me my car back when they havnt tested it, i work long hours so i dont have time to deal with this $hit during their opening times including saturdays where they work half a$$ed until 1pm or whatever.

[Irving]

Having it on semi automatic on 5th gear on fwy, drop it to 3rd to over take, car revs to 5000rpm hangs there for half a second then drops to 4800 rpm (although i am constantly pushing the peddle more) then climbs up to 6000 rpm like a SNAIL, wtf happened to the v-tec??!!!)
Drives like a piece of $hit now
Booked in to get it tested tomorrow at honda.

edit: reason for not dropping to 4th gear is coz that too climbs quite slow, i thought this was normal for semi auto, dropping down 2 gears is new to me after driving manual for years.

This could potentially be a serious safety issue. Especially, if this happens when you are overtaking on the wrong side of the road.

Please take extra care guys and make sure your spouse/family members are made aware of this issue if they also drive your car.

You need to inform Honda Australia so they can determine if this is a major safety issue.

[praja6]

Hi guys,

i am a new owner of 2010 Jan built(2010 feb compliance)accord Euro base model Auto, i am driving the car with driver side windows down, i never heard the so called pinging or any kind of rattling issue so far..

Just curiously, for most of you guys having pinging issue fixed or being fixed, did you guys notice the ping from the beginning or just after few thousand kms on the clock..

Thanks and any advise is welcome.

[Zapped]

Hi guys,

i am a new owner of 2010 Jan built(2010 feb compliance)accord Euro base model Auto, i am driving the car with driver side windows down, i never heard the so called pinging or any kind of rattling issue so far..

Just curiously, for most of you guys having pinging issue fixed or being fixed, did you guys notice the ping from the beginning or just after few thousand kms on the clock..

Thanks and any advise is welcome.

I have a Luxury Navi 2009 compliant (built Sep 2008). I started noticing the Ping about 4 weeks ago. That is after 15 months and 20,000Km. However, it looks like it does it mainly at the start of a trip (first 5 minutes or so) when I accelerate. Then it seems to stop. I took it to my mechainic and he definetely confirmed that it is the infamous Pinging.

I am booked with Essendon Honda in couple weeks but I am having second thoughts after reading that for some people the "fix" has made things worse. Does anybody have any advice for me??

cheers

[Irving]

I am booked with Essendon Honda in couple weeks but I am having second thoughts after reading that for some people the "fix" has made things worse. Does anybody have any advice for me??

cheers

I had very mild PCS (could barely hear it) at 2200rpm at HWY speeds. It started after about 1000kms.

After the fix, the pinging (loud) moved to 3200 to 4000rpm.

Had EMC and CKP reset done 5 weeks ago. No pinging for the 100kms or so....

Then mild PCS set in above 3200rpm.

I would say that the fix has made it worse for my car.

I recon that the dealership/Honda have stuffed up my EMC.

[Irving]

Hi guys,

i am driving the car with driver side windows down, i never heard the so called pinging or any kind of rattling issue so far..



You need to close all windows, turn the radio off and turn down the cabin fan.
Drive the car up a moderate to high hill, steadly accelerating uphill. when the engine hits 3200rpm, it should ping (more of a crackling sound than mables). Hold it there and it will ping away but then you will run out of hill....

I recon if I put my car on a dyno and tested it under load the pinging/pcs will last for over 10 second!

[toniche]

I am very much interested to buy accord euro. however seeing so many people getting ping problem, I will not risk my hard earned 35-40k dollar on a piece of Lemon.
I first thought i will go for a manual but now it is reported pinging is also happening with manual . may be I will have to wait until MY11 for honda to fix this issue.
probably will go for mazda 6 now, can't afford the time to buy a car and go back to a dealership to get a fix.

spoke to a dealer and said to me no car is perfect and bmw/ ferrari can have glitches or problems. this is such a BS, it is a on going problem and it is not happening to just a few cars. he wouldn't buy the car himself if he knew the car could have problem. i was going to buy the car not did not go ahead becoz he denied for my request to put a condition on contract, "car can be swapped or credited subject to ping problem "

FOR all accord euro with ping problem. please do a "EURO Ping cruise/ meet" and get current affairs/ car magazine involved. give honda some media pressure to get things right!

[praja6]

Not sure mate, i close windows and turn off all audio/cd never heard so far any cracking sound or so call pinging sound when i drive in normal road or highway.... What i heard is Honda fixed the pinging issue in 2010 built models with redesigned the knock sensor. Not sure its true or not. Mine is just under 500k at the moment, so not sure after i reach 1000k..

ANy other guys got 2010 built Euro got pinging issue here? I think JMAN got 2010 built Manual euro and driving it for a while....not sure his EUro got ping issue so far...

TOniche....I am not sure its worth you wait for My11 built car. Seriously mate, i been looking to purchase this Euro since last year sept 09(you can see this by my join date with this forum)and wait and wait until the 2010 built come up...I been reading all members pinging issue in this forum in the past 8months and took a risk in purchase this car. Main reason somehow i like the design of the car and i like it when i did the test drive...

Thanks

[Irving]

Consider yourself lucky if your car does not ping. No matter how good the car is this pinging taints the overall enjoyment of the vehicle.

The response from Honda Australia has been very disappointing. They have shown that they can't be trusted to stand behind their product. I have lost confidence in this company. Sure the dealerships have tried their best to make me happy, but they say that their hands are tied as Honda Australia will not approve the installation of a new EMC.

Have you wondered what became of John Bowley? - the originator of this thread. Well, his car was fitted with a new EMC which fixed the pinging in his car. So it seems that some EMCs are below specification and the unit is not able to adequately retard the timing as required by the load.

If you have to run your car on 98RON then your car does not meet specification as 95RON is the specified fuel for this vehicle in Australia.

[newedition]

This could potentially be a serious safety issue. Especially, if this happens when you are overtaking on the wrong side of the road.

Please take extra care guys and make sure your spouse/family members are made aware of this issue if they also drive your car.

You need to inform Honda Australia so they can determine if this is a major safety issue.

Irving,
Excellent point, I'am taking my euro to the country side this coming up long weekend that consists of long 1 way roads, i'll be sure to be extra careful since its always the case that you need to overtake trucks and trailers. ill keep u guys posted when i take it back to honda.

[buddah51au]

Interesting comment as it wasn't all that long ago that i held my CU2 Auto flat for around 10 minutes starting at 80kph all the way to 5kRPM in top gear. No sign of pinging or any safety issues whatsoever except the drivers foot getting stuck. The Build Date of my CU2 is July 08, so it is one of the early CU2's.

A comment was made "consider yourself lucky if your car does not ping" . Myself & a few others that I know of on this forum, as well as a large number who are not on the forum don't have this problem. Therefore it should read "consider yourself unlucky if your car is effected with this problem".

I will also repeat again that Honda Australia can & must follow any & all instructions from the manufacturer which is Honda Japan, So Honda Australia's hands are also tied in this matter. They can only report back to Honda Japan.

Lastly, I fail to see how pinging or PCS can be a safety issue on those cars effected.

[Type R Positive]

Not sure mate, i close windows and turn off all audio/cd never heard so far any cracking sound or so call pinging sound when i drive in normal road or highway.... What i heard is Honda fixed the pinging issue in 2010 built models with redesigned the knock sensor. Not sure its true or not. Mine is just under 500k at the moment, so not sure after i reach 1000k..Don't worry about it Praja. Just give it a good flogging for break in mate! ;)

[Type R Positive]

A comment was made "consider yourself lucky if your car does not ping" .Myself & a few others that I know of on this forum, as well as a large number who are not on the forum don't have this problem. Therefore it should read "consider yourself unlucky if your car is effected with this problem". Agreed. I think people with this issue would have googled it, seen ozhonda, joined up and joined the band wagon?


Lastly, I fail to see how pinging or PCS can be a safety issue on those cars effected.
Me too? How is it a safety issue?

[leo]

hi,everyone, since i have read this poster about 1 year, i purasched my euro at 1st may 2009, after driving 2months i found the pinging issue in my car, then i took car back to honda dealer about sep last year, they fixed car for me, but i still can hear pinging when the gear change from second to third at 2k to 2.5k rrp, but it only can be hear when all windows close, no music and good surface of road , and after third gear, there is no sound except little rattle sound from back, likey something loose in the boot....i going to find out when i do 20k sevice, anyway i am not really sure my car still has pinging issue.

btw, i am study in wollongong uni, so i driving car between sydney and wollongong, on the highway back from wollongong , there is about 6km uphill, everytime i drive through the rrp is about at 3.5rrp on 100km/h, i didnt hear loud pinging except what i said before the pinging only when the gear change. does it make any point??

to buddah51au, r u in sydney, is any chance to let me drive ur car and hear about the sound, or u can drive my car to see any different. i think u know better than i know.

lastly, my english is not good as you guys do, so hope you can understand what i am saying.

cheers

[buddah51au]

Sorry Leo, I am about 1400km north of Sydney. Add to that I am very fussy & fastidious with my cars - no one drives it except me & on the rare occasion when it can't be avoided the wife drives it.

In the majority of cases you will find the pinging problem between 2000 & 2500RPM under light throttle, thats my experience & I have driven a number of CU2's. As for those who report pinging at higher RPM, this is very hard to repeat on a road test as there are very few roads around that allow testing at those speeds legally.

[Irving]

File Complaint with ACCC under the Trade Practices ACT 1974 for Pinging problem when accelerating uphill - Accord Euro MY09.

The characteristics of this Pinging/PCS problem has been described in the preceding pages.

If your car has had the ping fix applied and you are still experiencing this problem, there is no point taking your car back to the dealership as they can't help you any further. Many of us have done this and our cars still ping. If you complain to Honda Australia, they will simply tell you that your car is operating within specification.

This matter now needs to be referred to the ACCC for investigation/prosecution under the Trade Practices Act 1974.

It should not cost us a cent and our aim is to get our cars fixed by Honda Australia under Warranty.
Below is the ACCC link to lodge your complaint and be part of any settlement. We need you to get on board if you want to be part of this action.

ITS NOW OR NEVER!!!
Many cars will soon be running out of warranty and you need to act quickly to report this problem.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/maintain/create/index.phtml?contentTypeItemId=9133&informationSpaceItemId=268347&inPop=1&returnUrl=.&type=Other

Several complaints have already been lodged. So join us guys, click on the above link and it will only take about 5 to 10 minutes to complete the online form.

[praja6]

I think its a good idea to lodge a complaint with ACCC.

But makesure if you guys car affected been to dealer for few fixes and dealer gave up and Honda Australia gave up as well..

[toniche]

File Complaint with ACCC under the Trade Practices ACT 1974 for Pinging problem when accelerating uphill - Accord Euro MY09.

The characteristics of this Pinging/PCS problem has been described in the preceding pages.

If your car has had the ping fix applied and you are still experiencing this problem, there is no point taking your car back to the dealership as they can't help you any further. Many of us have done this and our cars still ping. If you complain to Honda Australia, they will simply tell you that your car is operating within specification.

This matter now needs to be referred to the ACCC for investigation/prosecution under the Trade Practices Act 1974.

It should not cost us a cent and our aim is to get our cars fixed by Honda Australia under Warranty.
Below is the ACCC link to lodge your complaint and be part of any settlement. We need you to get on board if you want to be part of this action.

ITS NOW OR NEVER!!!
Many cars will soon be running out of warranty and you need to act quickly to report this problem.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/maintain/create/index.phtml?contentTypeItemId=9133&informationSpaceItemId=268347&inPop=1&returnUrl=.&type=Other

Several complaints have already been lodged. So join us guys, click on the above link and it will only take about 5 to 10 minutes to complete the online form.

support !!! the issue has been more than 2 yrs! obviously honda doesn't really care as long as the euro still selling. nothing will get done if no one do something about it.

[praja6]

I am just curious has anyone in this forum complain to ACCC after the fix by the dealer failed few times and ping still?

Mine is new 2010 jan built one, clock up around 300k at the moment, no pinging at all, who knows may be after few 1000kms mine get ping as well.. What i noticed today is i filled my tank with BP ultimate which is ron 98 and i noticed the acceleration is quicker and perform slightly better than the dealer filled caltex ron 95 ulp...

Does this mean the suitable fuel for our EUro is RON98 not 95?

[Irving]

The specified fuel is 95RON, yet my car needs 98RON and it still Pings/PCS. This car is not operating within specification.

The specification as per http://euro.honda.com.au/about-the-car_specifications.aspx#powertrain states that 148KW are produced at 7000rpm using Unleaded 95RON. If you then increase the Octane rating, theoretically, more power should be produced (put more energy in, get more out).

However, if the car pings on 95RON fuel, maximum power cannot be produced. In order to try and minimise the pinging we are using 98RON fuel and the engine is still pinging. What this means is that the engine is operating well below specification.

This is clearly misleading and false advertising.
I also believe this to be illegal conduct and unfair to consumers under the Trade Practices Act 1974. The matter has therefore been referred to the ACCC for investigation.

[Type R Positive]

Mine runs fine on 95 octane, its not false advertising.

[praja6]

Not sure its only a particular batch of models were affected? Just curious, does this ping issue mostly on luxuary model as the kerb weight is 50kg more...

[buddah51au]

Mine runs fine on 95 octane, its not false advertising.

Mine runs perfectly as well on 95 octane, so I agree it's not false advertising. I did try 2 consecutive tanks of 98 & found no noticeable difference in performance or economy, so for me it is 95 every tank.

[Irving]

Maybe you guys ought to buy yourselves Lottery Tickets.....LOL:zip:

[buddah51au]

Don't need a lottery ticket when you have a car as good as a CU2

[praja6]

I would say this Euro Cu2 is average people's BMW or mercedes where average people can't afford 60k plus for a BMW 3 series or Merc C class.

SO far i am happy with my Euro and i drive carefully, don't do sudden accelerations, just gentle smooth acceleration. TIme will tell whether my car is also a ping one or not...

[buddah51au]

Praja6, don't be too gentle with it as that is not a good way to run it in. A nice long, hard drive will do it more good then harm. I am not saying take it to the redline, but you should be treating it to some spirited driving in the 4000 to 6000RPM range.

[praja6]

Just curiously guys is this true what they mention in BP site regarding BP ultimate cleans the engines/valves much better than other premium ULPs. The pictures in the site rememebrs me when some dealers try to sell paint protection with showing clean steel vs a rusty steel side by side..

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9015027&contentId=7028155

Doesn't matter i already started to fill my EUro with BP ultimate, yes today the BP ultimate cost me $1.40 in Western suburb in Sydney...

[Type R Positive]

Maybe you guys ought to buy yourselves Lottery Tickets.....LOL:zip:

You make out that every cu2 has this issue? You would be one of the unlucky ones mate, not the other way around.

[albii]

mine is heading for fix number 2...

[newedition]

Agreed. I think people with this issue would have googled it, seen ozhonda, joined up and joined the band wagon?


Me too? How is it a safety issue?

the concern was with over taking cars on single lane two way roads.
in my particular case, after the fix was applied for pinging, accelerating stalled at 5000rpm, drops to 4750 then climbs up moderately instead of the usual aggressive rev. Its abit like sitting in a euro but over taking cars in a 1.6 litre civic, itll stuff up your driving judgement. Someone else posted earlier about rev surging problems which i think might be the same thing.

[praja6]

That means everyone's euro applied for the ping issue patch reduce the acceleration of the car?

[newedition]

That means everyone's euro applied for the ping issue patch reduce the acceleration of the car?

no... just me and the user "Joystick" so far.

[OranparkAddict]

That means everyone's euro applied for the ping issue patch reduce the acceleration of the car?

ABSOLUTELY!

Havent posted about the issue for a while. Families CU2 has done 48XXX kms and has had the problem 'rectified'. The car has the very very occasional ping but not very often at all. So much so that when I do hear it I doubt my hearing.

The 'fix' has slowed the car down considerably and it has lost its edge. Feels very soggy and not sharp at all. You floor it and it just struggles to build revs if going up hill on an express way, say. The fix, in my experience is absolute sh#t and has caused the car to lose power.

[buddah51au]

Once again I must assume it comes down to the Technician who applies the software update as I still have no problems anywhere from idle to 7000RPM, nor have I noticed any decrease in performance. If anything I believe it pulls harder now.

[praja6]

Once again I must assume it comes down to the Technician who applies the software update as I still have no problems anywhere from idle to 7000RPM, nor have I noticed any decrease in performance. If anything I believe it pulls harder now.

Buddah,

What i can see here is few dealer service centre mechani were not experienced enough in applying the patch and sorry for these people had the slow in acceleration.. is there anyway get a liste of dealers where they applied patch for the EURo got the ping issue rectrified and no change in acceleration. This would be helpful for any of the people's EUro needed to apply for the patch in the future(why including My euro as well, its going good so far, who knows after another few months mine may be ping as well)..

Thanks
Thanks.

[praja6]

Hi GUys,

Found the below link someone posted in Honda Jazz forum explains the benefits or premium fuels and Ping issue..

http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/premium/questions.html#1

[Zapped]

Once again I must assume it comes down to the Technician who applies the software update as I still have no problems anywhere from idle to 7000RPM, nor have I noticed any decrease in performance. If anything I believe it pulls harder now.

Buddah I think you are right but how do we know if the technician at the dealership is good or not?

My Jan 09 Luxi navi seems to ping only for few seconds in the fist couple minutes of driving than it does it infrequently and randomly. My dilemma is whether is worth risking making the car worse for a pinging that is even less frequent if I use RON98 fuel.

I have already postoponed twice my booking with Essendon Honda. Has anybody here had any experience with them? Any advice will be very welcome.

Cheers

[buddah51au]

Buddah I think you are right but how do we know if the technician at the dealership is good or not?

My Jan 09 Luxi navi seems to ping only for few seconds in the fist couple minutes of driving than it does it infrequently and randomly. My dilemma is whether is worth risking making the car worse for a pinging that is even less frequent if I use RON98 fuel.

I have already postoponed twice my booking with Essendon Honda. Has anybody here had any experience with them? Any advice will be very welcome.

Cheers

I can only speak for myself, but the pinging I experienced pre software/knock sensor update was so Minor & infrequent I could have lived with the problem. At no time did I complain to my dealer about it, if not for their insistence that I return it for the update I would not have done so. I have driven more CU2's than i can count & have not noticed a severe pinging problem on any of them, it is more like very mild & infrequent, you really need to listen for it & it usually last for 5 to 10 seconds, mostly between 2000 & 2500 RPM

[H.T]

Been a while since I have been on line, but what do you know the first thing I read is that everyone is still just wingeing about the problem.

Over 1 YEAR ago, I tried to drum up support to take this further, but no one was interested.

I guess everyone loves spending their time on the keyboard?

Just remember that most of you would only have had three years warranty, with this problem being ongoing for nearly two years, your going to be stuck with it...

[nesterjester]

Has anyone had any problems with the ping fix with southside Honda in Brisbane?

[albii]

Has anyone had any problems with the ping fix with southside Honda in Brisbane?

Hey mate, got mine done at austral( same company) and there is still a slight ping under load. Maybe we could meet up so i can show you if you want.

[nesterjester]

Hey mate, got mine done at austral( same company) and there is still a slight ping under load. Maybe we could meet up so i can show you if you want.

cheers mate

mines going in today and i just wanted a heads up before i put it in, in two minds about it

did you end up losing power like some of the other guys have?

all covered under warrenty or did they make you pay for the fuel?

[albii]

cheers mate

mines going in today and i just wanted a heads up before i put it in, in two minds about it

did you end up losing power like some of the other guys have?

all covered under warrenty or did they make you pay for the fuel?

Dunno if it lost power but it was all under warranty.

[Lemonhead]

Hi everyone, new to the forum. Only just got my white CU2 few months ago, loving it, but have read a lot on the forum about this 'pinging' problem with the CU2. Luckily no pinging heard so far, but can the problem still show up later? Or has the problem been eradicated with later models? Cheer to all :)

[praja6]

Hi everyone, new to the forum. Only just got my white CU2 few months ago, loving it, but have read a lot on the forum about this 'pinging' problem with the CU2. Luckily no pinging heard so far, but can the problem still show up later? Or has the problem been eradicated with later models? Cheer to all :)

Hi Mate,

I am also a new owner to the CU2 base model so far no pinging at all, i heard from 2010 january models they fixed the issue from factory. WHo knows the ping issue may come up after sometimes.. Only we have to fingers cross..

In the mean time just enjoy your Euro

[Ollie89]

mine is heading for fix number 2...

May i ask where you bought your EURO from ? If thats the car in your Display Picture ???

[albii]

May i ask where you bought your EURO from ? If thats the car in your Display Picture ???

Austral honda in brisbane.

[nesterjester]

hey just letting you all know that i got my post combustion fix today at southside honda today
and straight from pulling out of the service department the car felt different and way quicker off the mark
no pinging here now not even faintly

got my front speaker fix done as well all under warrenty....

so no pinging here...

[Type R Positive]

Hi everyone, new to the forum. Only just got my white CU2 few months ago, loving it, but have read a lot on the forum about this 'pinging' problem with the CU2. Luckily no pinging heard so far, but can the problem still show up later? Or has the problem been eradicated with later models? Cheer to all :)

Don't worry about it champ. Drive and enjoy it mate, knowing you got a new car and it does not have the ping. ;)

[Ollie89]

Austral honda in brisbane.

Ohh fair enough... Reason for my question is because there is 1 EXACTLY the same up the road from me with the same rims & color thats all.

Thanks.

[Lemonhead]

Don't worry about it champ. Drive and enjoy it mate, knowing you got a new car and it does not have the ping. ;)

Thanks Type-R, that's reassuring. Cheers. :)

[MikesVtec]

Hi guys

I m looking to buy a new CU2 Standard Euro Auto soon, but am worried about the pinging/knock sensor issue. Is there any info stating that the problem has been fixed in newer models or is it the same old?

Mike

[euros]

Hi everyone, im still new to cu2 since i bought it 1 month ago from private seller. i already try revving from 2k to 5k rpm but heard nothing bout the pinging.. can somebody tell me whats the exact pinging sound like? cheers.

[Type R Positive]

Hi everyone, im still new to cu2 since i bought it 1 month ago from private seller. i already try revving from 2k to 5k rpm but heard nothing bout the pinging.. can somebody tell me whats the exact pinging sound like? cheers.You'll know!
It's like ball bearings in a cup.

[nesterjester]

You'll know!
It's like ball bearings in a cup.

like heaps of small bearings in a metal cup .. hahaha

[euros]

You'll know!
It's like ball bearings in a cup.

As far im concerned, i hear nothing.. that means i havent discover the pinging or my euro works fine?
is it happen on all euro lux model? mine is the base model 2009. cheers.

[Type R Positive]

As far im concerned, i hear nothing.. that means i havent discover the pinging or my euro works fine?
is it happen on all euro lux model? mine is the base model 2009. cheers.Nah mate, a few unlucky people got the 'ping'. Seems to be mostly auto's, base and lux.

your car is fine. enjoy!

[euros]

Nah mate, a few unlucky people got the 'ping'. Seems to be mostly auto's, base and lux.

your car is fine. enjoy!

a few or many mate? lol

in my 20k kms service invoice saying that
rattle / ping noise under acceleration.
Road tested vehicle & confirmed engine combustion noise, requires to be rebooked for repairs as per honda australia when parts available.

so now i think my car have the pinging problem?! . LOL.

but i cant sense any ball bearing sound from the engine.. at what speed usually it can be heard?

today i already try using Sport with paddleshift in gear 2 and 3. at speed about 80. the rpm around 2k - 5k on freeway.

[praja6]

a few or many mate? lol

in my 20k kms service invoice saying that
rattle / ping noise under acceleration.
Road tested vehicle & confirmed engine combustion noise, requires to be rebooked for repairs as per honda australia when parts available.

so now i think my car have the pinging problem?! . LOL.

but i cant sense any ball bearing sound from the engine.. at what speed usually it can be heard?

today i already try using Sport with paddleshift in gear 2 and 3. at speed about 80. the rpm around 2k - 5k on freeway.

Try to drive in auto mode....I rarely seen people with manual CU2 complaining here with the ping issue... I think best way to listen the sound is close your windows, turn off steror and see any sound you can hear....

Guys just a qustion...If they apply the patch for pinging, do they record that in logbook?

Thanks.

[89superstage]

Hi everyone, im still new to cu2 since i bought it 1 month ago from private seller. i already try revving from 2k to 5k rpm but heard nothing bout the pinging.. can somebody tell me whats the exact pinging sound like? cheers.


Don't worry about it champ. Drive and enjoy it mate, knowing you got a new car and it does not have the ping. ;)

Ditto mate,
Just enjoy the car, and let us know if you hear something untoward :-)

[SPQR]

No record of the patch/fix/unfix. Unless it's a safety recall, there is no owner viewable record of such fixes. It's one of the ways manufacturers make it difficult to judge what's really happening. In a safety recall, they usually apply a small label on one of the door posts. This they have to do in case the ACCC does an audit. But voluntary work like the ping fix goes unrecorded as far as the public is concerned. That's how they can claim that there are only 60 affected cars in the whole of Australia: You simply couldn't prove any different.

[nesterjester]

Nah mate, a few unlucky people got the 'ping'. Seems to be mostly auto's, base and lux.

your car is fine. enjoy!

my car is a base manual and i got the ping ... it was pretty bad ...

[praja6]

No record of the patch/fix/unfix. Unless it's a safety recall, there is no owner viewable record of such fixes. It's one of the ways manufacturers make it difficult to judge what's really happening. In a safety recall, they usually apply a small label on one of the door posts. This they have to do in case the ACCC does an audit. But voluntary work like the ping fix goes unrecorded as far as the public is concerned. That's how they can claim that there are only 60 affected cars in the whole of Australia: You simply couldn't prove any different.

Interesting, in that case if the owner sells the car and the person purchasing wouldn't know anything about it(just realise the person purchasing the car doesn't know about this forum)..

So far i never hear anything in my car..hope mine is a car doesn't affect with pinging..its a 2010 jan built My10 auto